Space Lynx
Astronaut
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2014
- Messages
- 18,444 (4.69/day)
- Location
- Kepler-186f
You have no clue as to how these things work.
I agree with you, it was just a random thought.
You have no clue as to how these things work.
System Name | My second and third PCs are Intel + Nvidia |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D @ 45 W TDP Eco Mode |
Motherboard | MSi Pro B650M-A Wifi |
Cooling | Noctua NH-U9S chromax.black push+pull |
Memory | 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-6000 CL36 |
Video Card(s) | PowerColor Reaper Radeon RX 9070 XT |
Storage | 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 4 TB Seagate Barracuda |
Display(s) | Dell S3422DWG 34" 1440 UW 144 Hz |
Case | Corsair Crystal 280X |
Audio Device(s) | Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones |
Power Supply | 750 W Seasonic Prime GX |
Mouse | Logitech MX Master 2S |
Keyboard | Logitech G413 SE |
Software | Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE Plasma |
Windows doesn't decide which cores are the best. That information is baked into the CPU. Windows only uses that information to send priority tasks to those threads.It's clear that there are technical limitations to making them boost with the increased voltage requirements. Performance is all that matters.
Even with the limited boost on the 7800X3D and 5800X3D, they have world class performance for gaming. Now, you literally can have your cake and eat it too.
Thread management will be an issue if Windows thinks that the highest boosting cores are the best.
Windows doesn't decide which cores are the best. That information is baked into the CPU. Windows only uses that information to send priority tasks to those threads.
System Name | My second and third PCs are Intel + Nvidia |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D @ 45 W TDP Eco Mode |
Motherboard | MSi Pro B650M-A Wifi |
Cooling | Noctua NH-U9S chromax.black push+pull |
Memory | 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-6000 CL36 |
Video Card(s) | PowerColor Reaper Radeon RX 9070 XT |
Storage | 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 4 TB Seagate Barracuda |
Display(s) | Dell S3422DWG 34" 1440 UW 144 Hz |
Case | Corsair Crystal 280X |
Audio Device(s) | Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones |
Power Supply | 750 W Seasonic Prime GX |
Mouse | Logitech MX Master 2S |
Keyboard | Logitech G413 SE |
Software | Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE Plasma |
Even HWinfo does that. Or loading up a Cinebench R23 single threaded test, and looking at Task Manager while doing it.I think 1usmus did develop a software program that will show you which cores are best though, I can't remember its been awhile.
Seriously?Nice to see only 120W default TDP.
Processor | AMD Ryzen 5 5600@80W |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI B550 Tomahawk |
Cooling | ZALMAN CNPS9X OPTIMA |
Memory | 2*8GB PATRIOT PVS416G400C9K@3733MT_C16 |
Video Card(s) | Sapphire Radeon RX 6750 XT Pulse 12GB |
Storage | Sandisk SSD 128GB, Kingston A2000 NVMe 1TB, Samsung F1 1TB, WD Black 10TB |
Display(s) | AOC 27G2U/BK IPS 144Hz |
Case | SHARKOON M25-W 7.1 BLACK |
Audio Device(s) | Realtek 7.1 onboard |
Power Supply | Seasonic Core GC 500W |
Mouse | Sharkoon SHARK Force Black |
Keyboard | Trust GXT280 |
Software | Win 7 Ultimate 64bit/Win 10 pro 64bit/Manjaro Linux |
So, for you 230W (170W TDP) is higher than 165W (120W TDP)?Seriously?
So:
7700X3D 120W (8 cores, lower boost frequencies)
7950X3D 120W (16 cores, higher boost frequencies)
In the real world, they will consume more than the 7700X and 7950X, respectively
Processor | Ryzen 9 3900x |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI B550 Gaming Plus |
Cooling | be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 4 |
Memory | 32GB GSkill Ripjaws V 3600CL16 |
Video Card(s) | 3060Ti FE 0.9v |
Storage | Samsung 970 EVO 1TB, 2x Samsung 840 EVO 1TB |
Display(s) | ASUS ProArt PA278QV |
Case | be quiet! Pure Base 500 |
Audio Device(s) | Edifier R1850DB |
Power Supply | Super Flower Leadex III 650W |
Mouse | A4Tech X-748K |
Keyboard | Logitech K300 |
Software | Win 10 Pro 64bit |
Why not? 5000 series sure did:Are your glasses good? How do you think that 7700X3D (8 cores) and 7950X3D (16 cores) will have the same power consumption?
System Name | Godrillamobile |
---|---|
Processor | 9800 x 3d @5.425 ghz |
Motherboard | MSI x870e Tomahawk |
Cooling | Lianli GA Trinity 2 x360 |
Memory | Gskill 32 gig ddr5 (cl 28 oc from cl30 ) 6ghz |
Video Card(s) | 5090 PNY stock 4 now |
Storage | 990 pro 2 tera as prime and 970 evo plus 2 tera as secondary |
Display(s) | 5 year cx 48 inches |
Case | Motech |
Audio Device(s) | SteelSeries 7.1 wired headset with dac |
Power Supply | seasonic vertex 1000 atx 3.0 psu with single 12 volt dedicated gpu wire cable |
Mouse | g502x wired |
Keyboard | corsair rgb full |
Software | wind 11 64 bit |
If both chiplets require more power to boost higher at 14% and 12% respectively for R9 cpus then that might explain the lower tdp from power saving from the 3d chached chiplet. Also is improving stepping still a thing?Why not? 5000 series sure did:
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System Name | S.L.I + RTX research rig |
---|---|
Processor | Ryzen 7 5800X 3D. |
Motherboard | MSI MEG ACE X570 |
Cooling | Corsair H150i Cappellx |
Memory | Corsair Vengeance pro RGB 3200mhz 32Gbs |
Video Card(s) | 2x Dell RTX 2080 Ti in S.L.I |
Storage | Western digital Sata 6.0 SDD 500gb + fanxiang S660 4TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 |
Display(s) | HP X24i |
Case | Corsair 7000D Airflow |
Power Supply | EVGA G+1600watts |
Mouse | Corsair Scimitar |
Keyboard | Cosair K55 Pro RGB |
What I read was AMD said they didn't need the 400mhz, to match current zen 4 chips. This also second gereration of vcache, so it probaby can reach higher clocks & voltages. Except with the second CCD not having 3D Vcache, they have to be able to be in sync when all threads are loaded. There for all this complaining about lower clock speed /tdp is pointless. The vcache die would out pace the non vcache die with higher clocks.If both chiplets require more power to boost higher at 14% and 12% respectively for R9 cpus then that might explain the lower tdp from power saving from the 3d chached chiplet. Also is improving stepping still a thing?
Update the base clocks are also significantly lower at 11% to 6% respectively.
I repeat: do you really think that the 7800X3D will have the same consumption as the 7950X3D?Why not? 5000 series sure did:
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System Name | The Cum Blaster |
---|---|
Processor | R9 5900x |
Motherboard | Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 Wifi |
Cooling | Alphacool Eisbaer LT360 |
Memory | 4x8GB Crucial Ballistix @ 3800C16 |
Video Card(s) | 7900 XTX Nitro+ |
Storage | Lots |
Display(s) | 4k60hz, 4k144hz |
Case | Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition |
Power Supply | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750W |
why not? most games are cache-heavy, and there are plenty of tasks that can't be parallelized and depend on serial performanceI don't think it will work like that at all.
Processor | AMD Ryzen 5 5600@80W |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI B550 Tomahawk |
Cooling | ZALMAN CNPS9X OPTIMA |
Memory | 2*8GB PATRIOT PVS416G400C9K@3733MT_C16 |
Video Card(s) | Sapphire Radeon RX 6750 XT Pulse 12GB |
Storage | Sandisk SSD 128GB, Kingston A2000 NVMe 1TB, Samsung F1 1TB, WD Black 10TB |
Display(s) | AOC 27G2U/BK IPS 144Hz |
Case | SHARKOON M25-W 7.1 BLACK |
Audio Device(s) | Realtek 7.1 onboard |
Power Supply | Seasonic Core GC 500W |
Mouse | Sharkoon SHARK Force Black |
Keyboard | Trust GXT280 |
Software | Win 7 Ultimate 64bit/Win 10 pro 64bit/Manjaro Linux |
The X3D variants will for sure consume less power. No question about. It is now long proven that Zen4 doesn't lose more than 5% performance even with more than 30% lower power limits. So, it was an easy task for AMD to do that.I repeat: do you really think that the 7800X3D will have the same consumption as the 7950X3D?
Regarding the 7950X/7950X3D consumption, the answer was readily available: the X3D is clocked at 4.2 GHz base, 300MHz less. This is the only way to maintain the same consumption as the X counterpart. All will follow the trajectory of 5800X3D: increased performance in gaming with penalty in other software.
No need for those tricks. The 3D cache is seen as a part of the whole L3 cache and will be used as that.why not? most games are cache-heavy, and there are plenty of tasks that can't be parallelized and depend on serial performance
if task B depends on the result of task A, with task B running on a ccd with 3d cache, and task A runs on the ccd without 3d cache, then you'll get worse performance than if it was the other way around (provided task B takes more time to do than task A)
if there are enough threads and the scheduler isn't dumb, then sure you wouldn't notice a thing, but I would be surprised if, for example, a 7600x3d performed better than a 7900x3d (or if locking game threads to the ccd which does have the 3d cache) since there would be no potential for improper thread assignment
I think the 7900x3d will be a case of "more fps than 7900x, with extra performance to be had if you limit games to use the 3d cache ccd only"
System Name | The Cum Blaster |
---|---|
Processor | R9 5900x |
Motherboard | Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 Wifi |
Cooling | Alphacool Eisbaer LT360 |
Memory | 4x8GB Crucial Ballistix @ 3800C16 |
Video Card(s) | 7900 XTX Nitro+ |
Storage | Lots |
Display(s) | 4k60hz, 4k144hz |
Case | Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition |
Power Supply | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750W |
3d cache on ccd1 will be used by ccd2 as well? that screams extra latency when the ccd without the 3d cache decides it needs to use itNo need for those tricks. The 3D cache is seen as a part of the whole L3 cache and will be used as that.
Processor | AMD Ryzen 5 5600@80W |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI B550 Tomahawk |
Cooling | ZALMAN CNPS9X OPTIMA |
Memory | 2*8GB PATRIOT PVS416G400C9K@3733MT_C16 |
Video Card(s) | Sapphire Radeon RX 6750 XT Pulse 12GB |
Storage | Sandisk SSD 128GB, Kingston A2000 NVMe 1TB, Samsung F1 1TB, WD Black 10TB |
Display(s) | AOC 27G2U/BK IPS 144Hz |
Case | SHARKOON M25-W 7.1 BLACK |
Audio Device(s) | Realtek 7.1 onboard |
Power Supply | Seasonic Core GC 500W |
Mouse | Sharkoon SHARK Force Black |
Keyboard | Trust GXT280 |
Software | Win 7 Ultimate 64bit/Win 10 pro 64bit/Manjaro Linux |
A few more cycles in L3 cache latency was never the problem for performance. L3 size will help much more. 5800X3D showed that clearly in all games that are memory sensitive. RAM latency was always the main limit in speed.3d cache on ccd1 will be used by ccd2 as well? that screams extra latency when the ccd without the 3d cache decides it needs to use it
probably a miniscule amount of latency, but I really wouldn't be surprised if locking games to use the 3d cache ccd would yield better performance than using both
at the very least it sounds like a better idea than what intel is doing with their p+e cores anyway
7950X: 4.5GHz base clockThe X3D variants will for sure consume less power. No question about. It is now long proven that Zen4 doesn't lose more than 5% performance even with more than 30% lower power limits. So, it was an easy task for AMD to do that.
System Name | The Expanse |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D |
Motherboard | Asus Prime X670E-Pro Wifi BIOS 3265 AGESA PI 1.2.0.3e |
Cooling | Corsair H150i Elite LCD XT |
Memory | 64GB G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5 6000 CL 30-40-40-96 1T |
Video Card(s) | XFX Radeon RX 7900 XTX Magnetic Air (25.6.1) |
Storage | WD SN850X 2TB / Corsair MP600 1TB / Samsung 860Evo 1TB x2 Raid 0 / Asus NAS AS1004T V2 20TB |
Display(s) | LG 34GP83A-B 34 Inch 21: 9 UltraGear Curved QHD (3440 x 1440) 1ms Nano IPS 160Hz |
Case | Fractal Design Meshify S2 |
Audio Device(s) | Creative X-Fi + Logitech Z-5500 + HS80 Wireless |
Power Supply | Corsair AX850 Titanium |
Mouse | Corsair Dark Core RGB SE |
Keyboard | Corsair K100 |
Software | Windows 10 Pro x64 22H2 |
Benchmark Scores | https://valid.x86.fr/asijsu https://browser.geekbench.com/v6/cpu/11073923 |
I recall AMD mentioning they weren't quite done with AM4 yet after the 5800X3D release; that they might still backport X3D over for 5600X, 5700X, 5900X and 5950X. I wonder if they might still do so in the near-future (maybe after the live results of X3D 7900X3D and 7950X3D are out in the wild), or if they've decided to really leave AM4 behind for good.
At this point, it'd just be low-hanging fruit, and could make use of bad bins of X3D-capped CCDs intended for the 5800X3D for "5600X3D" and "5700X3D", and conversely, if bins are already very good, use the best for 5950X3D and second best for 5900X3D. It wouldn't be much different than AMD having also used some Zen+ or Zen2 CCDs for refreshed 1#00 and 2#00 Ryzens that they were originally still producing in small batches for the budget market (which was a minor but welcome surprise when it was known), and it'd be a nice bone to toss towards the AM4 crowd.
Processor | i5-6600K |
---|---|
Motherboard | Asus Z170A |
Cooling | some cheap Cooler Master Hyper 103 or similar |
Memory | 16GB DDR4-2400 |
Video Card(s) | IGP |
Storage | Samsung 850 EVO 250GB |
Display(s) | 2x Oldell 24" 1920x1200 |
Case | Bitfenix Nova white windowless non-mesh |
Audio Device(s) | E-mu 1212m PCI |
Power Supply | Seasonic G-360 |
Mouse | Logitech Marble trackball, never had a mouse |
Keyboard | Key Tronic KT2000, no Win key because 1994 |
Software | Oldwin |
This. AMD's strategy is clear enough by now: old gen for low end. I expect to see more AM4 chips but only at the low end. The 5300G maybe, which exists but never reached retail.Everyone that is on am4 has this glimmer of hope but I don't see it happening. Once motherboard prices drop on AM5 and DDR5 memory prices settle that is the path forward not waiting silicon on AM4.
Processor | AMD Ryzen 5 5600@80W |
---|---|
Motherboard | MSI B550 Tomahawk |
Cooling | ZALMAN CNPS9X OPTIMA |
Memory | 2*8GB PATRIOT PVS416G400C9K@3733MT_C16 |
Video Card(s) | Sapphire Radeon RX 6750 XT Pulse 12GB |
Storage | Sandisk SSD 128GB, Kingston A2000 NVMe 1TB, Samsung F1 1TB, WD Black 10TB |
Display(s) | AOC 27G2U/BK IPS 144Hz |
Case | SHARKOON M25-W 7.1 BLACK |
Audio Device(s) | Realtek 7.1 onboard |
Power Supply | Seasonic Core GC 500W |
Mouse | Sharkoon SHARK Force Black |
Keyboard | Trust GXT280 |
Software | Win 7 Ultimate 64bit/Win 10 pro 64bit/Manjaro Linux |
You did change the subject from the power draw to the performance when you lost the argument about the former. Dialogue is futile when this sneaky tactic is used.7950X: 4.5GHz base clock
7950X3D: 4.2GHz base clock
It will lose like the 5800X3D lost. It does not matter how much. The price matters and if it will bring you something extra in gaming. I doubt it will be worth it if you don't have a top video card.
It is vital for AMD to regain the crown in gaming. We are talking about some frames, impossible to detect in real life but with an impact in business. For the customer, hmmm, advertising, the soul of commerce.
System Name | Godrillamobile |
---|---|
Processor | 9800 x 3d @5.425 ghz |
Motherboard | MSI x870e Tomahawk |
Cooling | Lianli GA Trinity 2 x360 |
Memory | Gskill 32 gig ddr5 (cl 28 oc from cl30 ) 6ghz |
Video Card(s) | 5090 PNY stock 4 now |
Storage | 990 pro 2 tera as prime and 970 evo plus 2 tera as secondary |
Display(s) | 5 year cx 48 inches |
Case | Motech |
Audio Device(s) | SteelSeries 7.1 wired headset with dac |
Power Supply | seasonic vertex 1000 atx 3.0 psu with single 12 volt dedicated gpu wire cable |
Mouse | g502x wired |
Keyboard | corsair rgb full |
Software | wind 11 64 bit |
Either way that would mean they would have 4 core parts for zen4 incoming or 6core 3d cache also possible. If we extrapolate the 6 core 7600x vs 7700x performance there is no significant difference in performance in gaming currently. Very good point. I originally thought it was 2x 6 cores parts with disabled core from maybe poorer yields.I wonder if it's going to be two 6 core CCX's and one with 3D cache or one 8 core CCX with 3D cache and one 4 core CCX. My guess is 8 core 3D cache + 4 core
System Name | The Cum Blaster |
---|---|
Processor | R9 5900x |
Motherboard | Gigabyte X470 Aorus Gaming 7 Wifi |
Cooling | Alphacool Eisbaer LT360 |
Memory | 4x8GB Crucial Ballistix @ 3800C16 |
Video Card(s) | 7900 XTX Nitro+ |
Storage | Lots |
Display(s) | 4k60hz, 4k144hz |
Case | Obsidian 750D Airflow Edition |
Power Supply | EVGA SuperNOVA G3 750W |