EXPO or XMP for AMD config ?

[TokyoQuaSaR]

Hi,
I'm planning on buying a 7800X3D, probably a X670E mb, and 2x16GB of DDR5 6000, hopefully around CL30 (to reach 10ns latency which has always been the sweet spot for price/perf since the first generations of SDRAM). I plan on using my Noctua D15 as cooler, so I assume I will only be able to use "low profile" modules (I mean the standard size with only a small heatsink overhead, max 32mm total).

Where I live (Japan), I have found the GSkill Ripjaws S5 (XMP, CL30) or Flare X5 (EXPO, CL32) to be my best options. Both are currently at about the same price, which one would you take ? Is the EXPO support important for an AMD platform ? Or even worse, is it even relevant, for instance if I ever plan to come back to an Intel platform in the future, and I wouldn't be able to have my DDR5 memory optimized for it ?

 

[AusWolf]

Both would probably work, but EXPO has been optimised for and tested on AMD, so I would take that without a question.

 

[dgianstefani]

EXPO will be faster but is more aggressive, so may lead to longer boot times as memory is trained.

 

[TokyoQuaSaR]

Thank you for you answer

Both would probably work, but EXPO has been optimised for and tested on AMD, so I would take that without a question.

EXPO will be faster but is more aggressive, so may lead to longer boot times as memory is trained.

Faster even with the CL higher on the EXPO one ? I heard about the boot times being quite long on AMD platform recently, so if it's longer on the EXPO ones I am also kinda worried a bit.

 

[AusWolf]

Faster even with the CL higher on the EXPO one ? I heard about the boot times being quite long on AMD platform recently, so if it's longer on the EXPO ones I am also kinda worried a bit.

With 2x 16 GB 6000 MHz (that's what I have too), you'll be looking at 25-30 seconds before you see the boot screen. It's nothing to worry about, imo.

 

[TokyoQuaSaR]

Well that's not the end of the world for sure but it is a huge delay nonetheless. Like for instance, if having XMP instead reduces this by 10s I would probably go for the XMP.

 

[3x0]

Boot times greatly depend on the motherboard. Gigabyte has some fast boot times compared to others from what I've seen. I don't think XMP boots faster compared to EXPO.

 

[TokyoQuaSaR]

Boot times greatly depend on the motherboard. Gigabyte has some fast boot times compared to others from what I've seen. I don't think XMP boots faster compared to EXPO.

That's good to know thank you.

 

[AusWolf]

I don't think XMP boots faster compared to EXPO.

I don't think, either. If it's the same capacity and the same speed, why would it boot faster?

Well that's not the end of the world for sure but it is a huge delay nonetheless.

It's good time to pop to the kitchen for a drink, or use the toilet quickly. By the time I'm back, the Windows login screen usually greets me.

 

[TokyoQuaSaR]

I don't think, either. If it's the same capacity and the same speed, why would it boot faster?


It's good time to pop to the kitchen for a drink, or use the toilet quickly. By the time I'm back, the Windows login screen usually greets me.

Well the boot being faster was actually mentionned by @dgianstefani I didn't say that myself. I just said that if it was the case then maybe XMP isn't too bad for me, especially if the more aggressive timings we get from EXPO are compensated by the lower CL on the XMP module I found.

PS: now as an engineer, I have worked with DRAM interfaces (kinda long ago) and training can take some time, depending on the search algorithm and target timings. So it's totally possible that it takes more time with one model rather than another. I don't expect the DRAM training to occupy a big part of the boot time though, but I don't really know tbh.

I do agree about the drink or toilets during boot time though, I usually do the same, but I did experience some very fast boot times in the past, and to be honest it's pretty nice and hard to come back to a slower boot time when you get used to it.

 

[dgianstefani]

Well the boot being faster was actually mentionned by @dgianstefani I didn't say that myself. I just said that if it was the case then maybe XMP isn't too bad for me, especially if the more aggressive timings we get from EXPO are compensated by the lower CL on the XMP module I found.

I do agree about the boot time though, I usually do the same, but I did experience some very fast boot times in the past, and to be honest it's pretty nice and hard to come back to a slower boot time when you get used to it.

Timings on EXPO are more aggressive, and memory training is what the system is doing when you are waiting that 30-45 seconds.

Faster motherboards can be due to better algorithms/memory traces, or more unstable settings.

 

[3x0]

Timings on EXPO are more aggressive, and memory training is what the system is doing when you are waiting that 30-45 seconds.

So people who OC their RAM will experience longer boot times? I don't think that's the case. The memory controller has to negotiate all the timings regardless, how tight they are has nothing to do with it.

 

[TokyoQuaSaR]

Timings on EXPO are more aggressive, and memory training is what the system is doing when you are waiting that 30-45 seconds.

Faster motherboards can be due to better algorithms/memory traces, or more unstable settings.

I edited my own comment while you wrote that but yes, that's what I understood from your comment. I am kinda surprised that DRAM training can take that much time, but for sure it's not negligible.

So people who OC their RAM will experience longer boot times? I don't think that's the case. The memory controller has to negotiate all the timings regardless, how tight they are has nothing to do with it.

From my own experience it's totally possible. I am just surprised at how long it takes nowadays.

 

[AusWolf]

Well the boot being faster was actually mentionned by @dgianstefani I didn't say that myself. I just said that if it was the case then maybe XMP isn't too bad for me, especially if the more aggressive timings we get from EXPO are compensated by the lower CL on the XMP module I found.

PS: now as an engineer, I have worked with DRAM interfaces (kinda long ago) and training can take some time, depending on the search algorithm and target timings. So it's totally possible that it takes more time with one model rather than another. I don't expect the DRAM training to occupy a big part of the boot time though, but I don't really know tbh.

I do agree about the boot time though, I usually do the same, but I did experience some very fast boot times in the past, and to be honest it's pretty nice and hard to come back to a slower boot time when you get used to it.

I'm not sure about the XMP vs EXPO part.

As for boot times, how many times do you turn on or reboot your PC on an average day?

 

[TokyoQuaSaR]

I'm not sure about the XMP vs EXPO part.

As for boot times, how many times do you turn on or reboot your PC on an average day?

I overall agree with you, I don't reboot that much so it's minor.

 

[MarsM4N]

EXPO = AMD / XMP = Intel

Also have a look into the online manual of the mainboard you're going to buy. Look under "Supported Memory List" and only buy one of them. They're certified to run smooth with the board.
You can also Google what kit is faster or just order 2 different kits and test it out yourself which one is faster. And get only 2 sticks not 4. 2 are more OC stable.

 

[ir_cow]

Flare X5. Your building a AMD system, get EXPO ram.

 

[Shou Miko]

I own this specific G.Skill kit F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5 which is AMD Expo ready with CL36-36-36-96 at 6000MT/s it's rock stable first boot ever on my Asus Prime X670-P WiFi I was amazed how fast it actually booted with 32GB of memory after hearing several reviewers saying that boot can take some time.

Link: https://www.gskill.com/product/165/396/1662622664/F5-6000J3636F16GX2-FX5

I am overall happy with the performance vs the price right now if I pay the kit today I would only pay about £128,49 and it's without any rgb.

I know G.Skill recently announced their DDR5 5600MT/s CL28-34-34-89.

Their Neo kit F5-5600J2834F16GX2-TZ5NR costs £173,73 which is still some money but we only in the start of the DDR5 generation so it should improve a lot over time.

G.SKILL Announces New Extreme Low-Latency DDR5-5600 CL28 Memory Kit - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

4 May 2022 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is excited to announce an extremely low-latency DDR5 memory kit specification at DDR5-5600 CL28 in 64GB 32GBx2 and 32GB 16GBx2 kit capacities, under the...

www.gskill.com

 

[ir_cow]

I haven't measured the exact time in a while, but all 6000 32GB kits (expo and XMP) boot at roughly the same time. 6000 64GB kits takes like a extra minute the first time. 128GB, 2-3 m in minutes and 6200 32GB slightly longer vs 6000. Not enough to be noticable. Once it's "trained" either you can never unplug the power or set context restore. Boot times will be like 30 seconds after the initial enabling of XMP/expo.

I have 64GB 5600 in my work computer. Takes like 30 seconds per boot with context restore on. About a minute otherwise. But seriously by the time I press the power button and sit down, it's already booting into Windows

 

[Kapone33]

EXPO is made specifically for AM5 get that. You should have no issues. I bought and XMP kit for mine and setting XMP gave me WHEA errors.

 

[3x0]

I bought and XMP kit for mine and setting XMP gave me WHEA errors.

Did you then switch to EXPO kit with the same speed and fixed the WHEA errors? And what type of WHEA, 18 or 19?

 

[Sethiol]

This is the kind of responses I like. There is no guessing or hearsay, just what you know. Too many responses are pointless as they are not telling you what they know, just what they think.

Timings on EXPO are more aggressive, and memory training is what the system is doing when you are waiting that 30-45 seconds.

Faster motherboards can be due to better algorithms/memory traces, or more unstable settings.

 

[Kapone33]

Did you then switch to EXPO kit with the same speed and fixed the WHEA errors? And what type of WHEA, 18 or 19?

Yes absolutely. It was whatever Windows chooses when it can't boot. I got services, Hardware, and kernel errors.

 

[3x0]

This is the kind of responses I like. There is no guessing or hearsay, just what you know. Too many responses are pointless as they are not telling you what they know, just what they think.

He said EXPO boots longer than XMP, which is wrong according to @ir_cow who reviews motherboards for TPU

I haven't measured the exact time in a while, but all 6000 32GB kits (expo and XMP) boot at roughly the same time. 6000 64GB kits takes like a extra minute the first time. 128GB, 2-3 m in minutes and 6200 32GB slightly longer vs 6000. Not enough to be noticable. Once it's "trained" either you can never unplug the power or set context restore. Boot times will be like 30 seconds after the initial enabling of XMP/expo.

I have 64GB 5600 in my work computer. Takes like 30 seconds per boot with context restore on. About a minute otherwise. But seriously by the time I press the power button and sit down, it's already booting into Windows

 

[Klemc]

For my B650E-E Strix, XMP appeared in QVL before EXPO versions (two weaks approx), it's Fury Renegade.