AMD Ryzen 7000X3D Processors Prone to Physical Damage with Voltage-assisted Overclocking, Motherboard Vendors Rush BIOS Updates with Voltage Limiters

[Why_Me]

It's already in flames due to the CPU overcooking in flames

I knew you would get the pun in my post ^^

 

[AusWolf]

"Overclocking is dead" - said by so many people so many times. It's not 2002 anymore, guys.

 

[JustBenching]

"Overclocking is dead" - said by so many people so many times. It's not 2002 anymore, guys.

I am highly in doubt that this thing was caused by overclocking. Degrading your CPU? Sure, that can happen, considering the 3ds are supposedly very prone to high voltages. But actually - physically burning the CPU and the socket? That's completely unfathomable to me. Something must have gone catastrophically wrong here, increased soc voltage on it's own cannot result in this. How much power does the SOC draw, even at those elevated voltages? 20 watts? 30 watts? 50 watts? Let's just say 100w for good measure. Absolutely no way that burns the socket. And burning the CPU is even more difficult, they have built in temperature protections, you can push 2 volts to a CPU and it won't physically burn. It will degrade, it will probably instadie, but it won't cook itself.


And I find it funny cause reading the previous pages people are blaming the users that overclocked their chips despite amds warnings.. Yeah, right, cause overclocking should definitely burn a socket. Like wtf - this is supposedly a technological forum, lol

 

[Dirt Chip]

Is there info whether the affected CPU frid on a new build or as an drop-in upgrade?

Anyway, first gen problems never miss on producing action.
When you are the pioneer you are prone to more danger, that's part of the fun in it.

 

[AusWolf]

I am highly in doubt that this thing was caused by overclocking. Degrading your CPU? Sure, that can happen, considering the 3ds are supposedly very prone to high voltages. But actually - physically burning the CPU and the socket? That's completely unfathomable to me. Something must have gone catastrophically wrong here, increased soc voltage on it's own cannot result in this. How much power does the SOC draw, even at those elevated voltages? 20 watts? 30 watts? 50 watts? Let's just say 100w for good measure. Absolutely no way that burns the socket. And burning the CPU is even more difficult, they have built in temperature protections, you can push 2 volts to a CPU and it won't physically burn. It will degrade, it will probably instadie, but it won't cook itself.


And I find it funny cause reading the previous pages people are blaming the users that overclocked their chips despite amds warnings.. Yeah, right, cause overclocking should definitely burn a socket. Like wtf - this is supposedly a technological forum, lol

Breaking news... giving 10,000 Volts to a CPU results in a slight chance of frying it.

 

[JustBenching]

Breaking news... giving 10,000 Volts to a CPU results in a slight chance of frying it.

You can't even do that nowadays, ocp and ovp will cut you off instantly. It's really hard to physically damage your hardware via software nowadays. I literally tried to instakill my 12900k in order to justify keeping my 13900k, but that sucker didn't budge. I went all the way up to 1.64 volts at 5.6 ghz all core, I hit 117c at 400w, and it happily chugged along playing hogwarts

 

[phanbuey]

I am highly in doubt that this thing was caused by overclocking. Degrading your CPU? Sure, that can happen, considering the 3ds are supposedly very prone to high voltages. But actually - physically burning the CPU and the socket? That's completely unfathomable to me. Something must have gone catastrophically wrong here, increased soc voltage on it's own cannot result in this. How much power does the SOC draw, even at those elevated voltages? 20 watts? 30 watts? 50 watts? Let's just say 100w for good measure. Absolutely no way that burns the socket. And burning the CPU is even more difficult, they have built in temperature protections, you can push 2 volts to a CPU and it won't physically burn. It will degrade, it will probably instadie, but it won't cook itself.


And I find it funny cause reading the previous pages people are blaming the users that overclocked their chips despite amds warnings.. Yeah, right, cause overclocking should definitely burn a socket. Like wtf - this is supposedly a technological forum, lol

People in deep denial that there's some fault of the hardware / AGESA trying to blame user. But yeah the consensus seems to be that you need a ridiculous amount of voltage to bubble a chip like that. Across multiple motherboards and NOT just 3D chips -- seems to be an agesa/bios update issue the more that comes out.

 

[Zubasa]

I am highly in doubt that this thing was caused by overclocking. Degrading your CPU? Sure, that can happen, considering the 3ds are supposedly very prone to high voltages. But actually - physically burning the CPU and the socket? That's completely unfathomable to me. Something must have gone catastrophically wrong here, increased soc voltage on it's own cannot result in this. How much power does the SOC draw, even at those elevated voltages? 20 watts? 30 watts? 50 watts? Let's just say 100w for good measure. Absolutely no way that burns the socket. And burning the CPU is even more difficult, they have built in temperature protections, you can push 2 volts to a CPU and it won't physically burn. It will degrade, it will probably instadie, but it won't cook itself.

LGA sockets are known to burn when over-volted / overclocked for a LONG time.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/2859

 

[JustBenching]

People in deep denial that there's some fault of the hardware / AGESA trying to blame user. But yeah the consensus seems to be that you need a ridiculous amount of voltage to bubble a chip like that. Across multiple motherboards and NOT just 3D chips -- seems to be an agesa/bios update issue the more that comes out.

Well it's kinda self evident, I mean what temperatures are needed for the socket and or the cpu to physically damage themselves? Probably more than 150c. Temperature protection should have stopped that way before it happens

LGA sockets are known to burn when over-volted / overclocked for a LONG time.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/2859
View attachment 293011
View attachment 293012

Yeah, with subzero cooling. Thats my point, the cpu would have seized to exist way before any damage was done to the motherboard with normal cooling.

The infamous 7980xe also was also able to burn the socket, because it had insanely good heat dissipation and you could keep pumping volts into it until the socket went kapoot. But that cannot happen with Ryzen, a single ccd zen 4 will melt before you can push over 150w at it.

 

[AusWolf]

Well it's kinda self evident, I mean what temperatures are needed for the socket and or the cpu to physically damage themselves? Probably more than 150c. Temperature protection should have stopped that way before it happens


Yeah, with subzero cooling. Thats my point, the cpu would have seized to exist way before any damage was done to the motherboard with normal cooling.

The infamous 7980xe also was also able to burn the socket, because it had insanely good heat dissipation and you could keep pumping volts into it until the socket went kapoot. But that cannot happen with Ryzen, a single ccd zen 4 will melt before you can push over 150w at it.

This here is just another piece of media sensationalism trying to gain views/reads by blaming the company for a user's stupidity. Just like the cracked 6800 XTs that have been mined on, then improperly stored. The media obviously had to blame the drivers because drivers can obviously overvolt a GPU up to the point when it cracks in half without user intervention. Obviously...

Can we do some proper investigation before posting sensationalist news next time, please?

On the one hand, we've got this smear campaign purely for the views, then we have the same media outlets/users crying that there's no competition in the modern PC industry. Absolutely disgusting!

 

[Dirt Chip]

One thing is for sure- they must AGESA the problem.

 

[AusWolf]

One thing is for sure- they must AGESA the problem.

Yep. We need an AGESA update to prevent people from using their CPUs at stupidly high voltages. Idiot-proofing is the way these days. Being sensible is so oldschool!

 

[Zubasa]

Yeah, with subzero cooling. Thats my point, the cpu would have seized to exist way before any damage was done to the motherboard with normal cooling.

The infamous 7980xe also was also able to burn the socket, because it had insanely good heat dissipation and you could keep pumping volts into it until the socket went kapoot. But that cannot happen with Ryzen, a single ccd zen 4 will melt before you can push over 150w at it.

It could depend on how the CPU died, if the cpu internal circuitry is melted shut it is bascially a short until the traces are completely destroyed.
Many boards now have VRMs so powerful that they can sustain the current for a while if OCP for some reason doesn't kick in / isn't set properly.

 

[Dirt Chip]

Yep. We need an AGESA update to prevent people from using their CPUs at stupidly high voltages.

And to kill any CPU\memory OC posiabilaty to all ZEN CPU`s?
Sound like a bad move aginst all those OC orianted PR mobos and will put AMD CPU`s at permanent disadvantage.

 

[MarsM4N]

What just came to my mind, motherboard manufacturers do not actually write their own BIOS'es. They buy the "core BIOS" from a vendor and modify to fit their boards.

So could it be that the BIOS vendor messed up here? Most motherboard manufacturers get their core BIOS from AMI (American Megatrends), so that would be a common denominator.

"Most PC motherboard suppliers licensed a BIOS "core" and toolkit from a commercial third party, known as an "independent BIOS vendor" or IBV. The motherboard manufacturer then customized this BIOS to suit its own hardware. For this reason, updated BIOSes are normally obtained directly from the motherboard manufacturer." (Source: Wikipedia)

 

[AusWolf]

And to kill any CPU\memory OC posiabilaty to all ZEN CPU`s?
Sound like a bad move aginst all those OC orianted PR mobos and will put AMD CPU`s at permanent disadvantage.

I was trying to be sarcastic.

Honestly, I think every overclocker should first be clear on what they're doing, and not make a fuss on online media and blame the manufacturer when something goes wrong. It's just childish.

 

[nguyen]

Well, the actual user errors here are trusting AMD with their dysfunctional QA.

Every AM5 mobo maker is frantically deleting old BIOSes from their websites and put out latest BIOS with limited voltages, user errors....yeah right

 

[AusWolf]

Well, the actual user errors here are trusting AMD with their dysfunctional QA.

Every AM5 mobo maker is frantically deleting old BIOSes from their websites and put out latest BIOS with limited voltages, user errors....yeah right

Then why did we not hear about any dead CPU until now? Why does the article specifically mention "voltage-assisted overclocking"? High voltage OC is not user error, surely!

 

[Zubasa]

Then why did we not hear about any dead CPU until now? Why does the article specifically mention "voltage-assisted overclocking"? High voltage OC is not user error, surely!

I wouldn't pin it on the user so soon. DIY motherboards often run things out of spec even by default.

 

[AusWolf]

I wouldn't pin it on the user so soon. DIY motherboard of often run things out of spec even by default.

The article clearly states "voltage-assisted overclocking" even in the title. I wouldn't call that default.

 

[Zubasa]

The article clearly states "voltage-assisted overclocking" even in the title. I wouldn't call that default.

Everything running out of spec is considered overclocking FYI, its doesn't have to be manual.
Intel technically considers XMP as OC as well, an so does AMD with EXPO.

 

[AusWolf]

Everything running out of spec is considered overclocking FYI, its doesn't have to be manual.
Intel technically considers XMP as OC as well, an so does AMD with EXPO.

From the article:

AMD Ryzen 7000X3D processors are prone to irreversible physical damage if CPU overclocking is attempted at some of the higher VDDCR voltages (the main power domain for the CPU cores). A Redditor who goes by Speedrookie, attempted to overclock their Ryzen 7 7800X3D, leading to an irreversible failure.

It's clear as day to me.

 

[MarsM4N]

From the article:

It's clear as day to me.

Article is inaccurate. Check the source: 7800X3D just killed itself and my mobo (Reddit)
Quote: "No CPU overclocking, just memory via the EXPO 1 profile."

AMD however does consider running RAM faster than DDR5-5200 as "out of spec" overclocking. Even though they're advertising & selling it as a safe feature. You don't have to change voltages manually to crazy levels, just enabling the built in EXPO RAM setting will void you warranty. Some shady business right there. Intel does the same, though.

 

[AusWolf]

Article is inaccurate. Check the source: 7800X3D just killed itself and my mobo (Reddit)
Quote: "No CPU overclocking, just memory via the EXPO 1 profile."

AMD however does consider running RAM faster than DDR5-5200 as "out of spec" overclocking. Even though they're advertising & selling it as a safe feature. You don't have to change voltages manually to crazy levels, just enabling the built in EXPO RAM setting will void you warranty. Some shady business right there. Intel does the same, though.

Ah okay... then I guess 6000 MHz isn't the sweet spot with X3D chips anymore. Or maybe Asus botched something in their BIOS that messed with the built-in protections of the CPU. This definitely needs to be investigated.

I wonder what his SoC voltage was at the time of the damage. My board defaults to VSoC = VDIMM = 1.35 V in my case, but it runs fine with 1.2 V and EXPO enabled.

 

[Redwoodz]

I am making notes of all the schills in this topic for future use. That includes Derbauer. He needs to be removed from Hwbot at this point. He's nothing more than a corparate schill.
All the other humans in this thread over-reacting to Asus' and some Reddit user blunders need to take reading comprehension.

No one said their MSI mobo fried there chip, MSI updated the bios to prevent idiots from frying their chip. No one but Derbauer has seen any other failure. I bet he tried real hard to fry that chip too.
AEMP/DOCP
Asus advertises the unique abilities they provide to overclock beyond AMD's guidelines. It's a selling point. EXPO and DOCP/AEMP are 2 different things.