Can the car engine stop and go be disabled?

[gurusmi]

Nope. Also temporarilly you have higher exhaust values and with that you have to pay higher anual taxes for the car. To do so it would be tax evasion. And in germany that is a crime. That start/Stop button might be legal for other countries. Might be. But it isn't in germany. It is also possible that VW enables that buttion in foreign markets but in germany we don't have such a button or Meniu item in the car settings. Also that might be. Here we have to fight with different topics. A general ehaust level by the WLTP. Shown from Red up to level 6 in green depending on the kind of gas. I.e. some levels are not allowed to enter a city. We have that tax portion for the amount of CO2. And we have a tax portion by the kind of the vehicle and also about the engine displacement. Believe me. The german government uses a hell of time that nobody is evading taxes.

 

[Frick]

3&4&5: To say it clearly again. Might be the distance from germany to Croatia is too large. My Legs are too long for european cars. The length of my trousers are 38 inches. My trousers are handmade or imported from the US. I'm one of the 2% of people not fitting into a standard car sold in Germany. No matter which marque they are. I don't fit into a Porsche 911 or a Porsche Panamera either. I don't fit into a BMW, Mercedes or whatever no matter which seria. I don't explain you why I took my s8. But I did so because of a bundle of reasons. Is that so hard to understand? Afaik also Fiat in Italy and peugeot in France had the same diesel exhaust violences and they had to pay for.

I'm around your height and I have no problems with cars. What do you mean with "not fitting"?

BTW, try a late 90's Honda Civic, the only car I've ever driven where if I put the seat all the way back I couldn't reach the pedal. It was surreal.

 

[Tatty_Two]

In my experience (UK, Spain, Portugal), if a new vehicle sold in a country has a button to turn stop/start off then it is legal to do so, car manufacturers have different specs for different countries to meet legislation otherwise they would not be allowed to sell new vehicles within those countries so in the UK both my wife's and my cars have the button.

 

[gurusmi]

I'm around your height and I have no problems with cars. What do you mean with "not fitting"?

BTW, try a late 90's Honda Civic, the only car I've ever driven where if I put the seat all the way back I couldn't reach the pedal. It was surreal.

I'm a socalled "standikng giant". nMy legs are longer than normal. The upper body has a normal size of somebody that is around 180cm. Most women would dream about that relation. Long legs, short body. In my S8 i use the last possible position back- and downwards. then it works. The next car will be a Dodge RAM in comination with an other bigger sized Dodge sedan. But that's right now future thoughts. Also i might relocate to the US within a few years. I got that S8 because i was in need of a reliable car with a kind of image. Headhunters are looking to that. But i did want to have a car also that is covered by a roadside assistance. And yes. I needed that already when driving in france.

The next planned vehicla buy will be a three wheeler (CanAm Ryker or so). One rim at the back. two in front. Cool. With that also bikers are ashamed. That one i can drive with a little modification. At cars the accelerator has to be relocated to the left side. And that is a hard story in germany. One has to absolve a new drivers license exam etc. Only the paperwork to be allowed and insured costs at least 6.000€. Appraises by doctors, by technical organizations (TUEV) etc are needed for that. Ich changing the breakpedal from the foot to the hand on a threewheeler is an easy story compared to that. I had several surgeries on my right foot and sat over three years in a wheelchair. Manual and also electrical. The german government is so great. It is forbidden to use an electrical wheel chair that speeds over 6km/h and having Accus lasting for more than 40km of distance. They are available but are not allowed to be driven legally on public ground.

@Tatty_Two:
Sure. One can use a button to switch off the Start and Stop automatic. But only on private grounds. On all public roads that is strictly forbidden. One would loose his registration if catched. If you are at the Nordschleife or at the Hockenheimring and the owner allows to switch off, you can do so. But when driving towards the racing track and also home that automatic has to work.

Edit:
To explain the german Car inspection just for one second. It is mostly said that switzerland and germany are quite equal. The first time i got to the swiss examination i didn't pass. My engine compartment was not cleaned. The worker would have to get dirty hands and that is at least in switzerland a no go. In germany the would have passed the car. But at all the rest both are quite piggy and strong. In the US some parts of a car have to work. In other countries you don't have a technical inspection at all. In germany they look in the depth real exactly.

 

[KLiKzg]

Interesting. You, living in Croatia, know a lot about legal topics in germany. Where did you got that knowledge from? I was born and do live right now also in germany. I studied two semesters in taxation rights in germany. Aside of my diplomas in System informatics and communication electronics.

1. I don't know how you treat that in Croatia or anywhere else in the world. But in germany there is no legal ability to deactivate Stop&Go. As i said before. With deactivating you change the WLTP-fuel consuption as all others also. When you change the fuel consumption you also change the exhaust volume of (i.e.) CO2. And Co2 is a base figure for the yearly gas taxation. And yes here in germany are a lot of legal trials about VAG Diesel engines. More exactly in germany all cars with a Bosch Motor engine control (Also Mercedes, BMW,...) have the same problem. They all faced and still face law suits because of their exhaust problems. You should read the german STVZO Laws to know more. Google translate name that law "Road Traffic Licensing Ordinance". Don't forget. The germans go at least every 2 years to a technical check. I don't know if you, in Bosnia, even utilitize that. In Ukraine they don't.

3&4&5: To say it clearly again. Might be the distance from germany to Croatia is too large. My Legs are too long for european cars. The length of my trousers are 38 inches. My trousers are handmade or imported from the US. I'm one of the 2% of people not fitting into a standard car sold in Germany. No matter which marque they are. I don't fit into a Porsche 911 or a Porsche Panamera either. I don't fit into a BMW, Mercedes or whatever no matter which seria. I don't explain you why I took my s8. But I did so because of a bundle of reasons. Is that so hard to understand? Afaik also Fiat in Italy and peugeot in France had the same diesel exhaust violences and they had to pay for.

So who tells (in your words) a lot of horse shit? As i stated before. Your post was a no-brainer.

Well, all your diploma are good. But only for "theoretical purposes".
Why?
Well, here is how practical people do it in S8...you Start the engine & the press this little button:

So no more "automatic Start / Stop" nonsense.

As for Bosnia...I think you went "derogative" there...here in Croatia only Bosnians drive AUDIs & VAGs. So enjoy your choice!


As for the 38" trousers, mine are also that long...seems to me that we are in measuring conquest.
Only difference is: I do fit my car & I do not need to drive some car I can't fit in. So maybe you should rethink your choices. As I think you make them "poorly", picking up a S8.

As for the FIAT & Peugeot...maybe they have paid, did not check up on that...but they still use ECO button in those cars, which does the same trick.

 

[gurusmi]

Well the only nonsense talking person is right now YOU.

Is it so hard to understand that this is forbidden in germany? Is it so hard to understand that the technical will say no to this function? Is it so hard to understand that i don't care how you boys are doing on that in croatia? I do not care who is driving what marque. Neither in Croatia nor in germany. At all i'm not really interested in your opinion about that anyway. In germany mainly turkish people are driving Audi, BMW and Mercedes. So what? I dont care about. You have a big lack of knowledge in general and also in detail about the applicable german laws you talk about.

I also do not care about your trousers. I estimate that you never weard something else than Jeans. Also i estimate that we are living cultural and jobwise in different worlds. Hopefully you had a good education in your youth. Please show it. Till now you didn't. I had it. I tried to show you what kind of BS you wrote all the time. Because of all that you're the first one at my ignore list. According to my grandma i never argue against a fool. They bring me down to their level and win with the home advantage. Might be you will get me now with that harsh words. Saying it diplomatic didn't work for you.

 

[tabascosauz]

Well, all your diploma are good. But only for "theoretical purposes".
Why?
Well, here is how practical people do it in S8...you Start the engine & the press this little button:

So no more "automatic Start / Stop" nonsense.
As for Bosnia...I think you went "derogative" there...here in Croatia only Bosnians drive AUDIs & VAGs. So enjoy your choice!

As for the 38" trousers, mine are also that long...seems to me that we are in measuring conquest.
Only difference is: I do fit my car & I do not need to drive some car I can't fit in. So maybe you should rethink your choices. As I think you make them "poorly", picking up a S8.

As for the FIAT & Peugeot...maybe they have paid, did not check up on that...but they still use ECO button in those cars, which does the same trick.

Well the only nonsense talking person is right now YOU.

Is it so hard to understand that this is forbidden in germany? Is it so hard to understand that the technical will say no to this function? Is it so hard to understand that i don't care how you boys are doing on that in croatia? I do not care who is driving what marque. Neither in Croatia nor in germany. At all i'm not really interested in your opinion about that anyway. In germany mainly turkish people are driving Audi, BMW and Mercedes. So what? I dont care about. You have a big lack of knowledge in general and also in detail about the applicable german laws you talk about.

I also do not care about your trousers. I estimate that you never weard something else than Jeans. Also i estimate that we are living cultural and jobwise in different worlds. Hopefully you had a good education in your youth. Please show it. Till now you didn't. I had it. I tried to show you what kind of BS you wrote all the time. Because of all that you're the first one at my ignore list. According to my grandma i never argue against a fool. They bring me down to their level and win with the home advantage. Might be you will get me now with that harsh words. Saying it diplomatic didn't work for you.

This penis-measuring contest should probably stop now. Pretty well established that it is possible to disable auto start/stop, to answer the thread starter's question.

 

[claes]

I mean, someone could just post a link to a law or a German manual for the vehicle in the question. For all we know it could be illegal in Germany.

But yes, I too am annoyed by this speculative bullshit turning into a trouser length debate. I wouldn’t presume to know how environmental regulations for motor vehicles work in a country I don’t live in, and I wouldn’t claim one thing is legal or not without being able to point to the law in question — and I’m a known combative asshole. Have some humility folks

 

[Deleted member 229121]

I know remote start is illegal there.
My old man bought himself a loaded SQ5 and when he said there was no remote start I didn't believe him until I looked it up lol.

 

[gurusmi]

I mean, someone could just post a link to a law or a German manual for the vehicle in the question. For all we know it could be illegal in Germany.

§ 47 StVZO - Einzelnorm

Enjoy. Even germans need to learn this kind of language. The technics is named Subsumtions method.

But yes, I too am annoyed by this speculative bullshit turning into a trouser length debate. I wouldn’t presume to know how environmental regulations for motor vehicles work in a country I don’t live in, and I wouldn’t claim one thing is legal or not without being able to point to the law in question — and I’m a known combative asshole. Have some humility folks

2. I have thrown him onto my ignore list. I did not want to duscuss about trousers etc. And it is really annoying to face a well known problem all the time and then hear at the end of the day by an unknown stranger even not living in the same country (and so without any knowledge about my area) that this is no problem at all (at his site). I reply again my words. I did not want to discuss about whatever. I did only state how it is arranged in my own country and also in switzerland (I lived 5 years).

 

[Tatty_Two]

I am not in the slightest denying such laws in some countries exist, I am just unsure how a law prohibiting turning off stop/start in any country where the law prohibits it could be enforced if there was actually a button to do so fitted as standard to the vehicle?

 

[Mussels]

Really weird to see arguments over a year old thread.

Play nice.

 

[tabascosauz]

I am not in the slightest denying such laws in some countries exist, I am just unsure how a law prohibiting turning off stop/start in any country where the law prohibits it could be enforced if there was actually a button to do so fitted as standard to the vehicle?

Especially since in most conventional cars (I suspect both true hybrids and mild hybrids have the additional Li-ion battery capacity to get around the issue) will turn the engine back on between 30 seconds to a few minutes after turning off, as part of normal battery management behaviours. Seems like a major obstacle to any real enforcement of any otherwise valid laws or regulations.

I personally don't know of any auto start/stop equipped cars that enable permanent disabling of the AS/S system through a push of a button. Might be exceptions, but certainly not the rule. Whether by dedicated button, or as part of being in a particular drive mode, or meeting certain requirements (e.g. cold ambient temp, cold engine), usually the system goes right back to enabled once the car is turned fully off and on again.

The more permanent methods usually involve modifications to software (ie. Forscan) or a dongle (e.g. Autostop Eliminator) - in those cases I can definitely see the law applying. But to be honest, if it is under the emissions justification as claimed, things like full diesel emissions compliance are and will always be far higher on the list of authorities' priorities, especially with Euro 6 coming into play for diesels since last year. Environmentally speaking, AS/S can save you a bit of gas, but that's about it.

I'll have to check but afaik even with Euro 6 Europe remains a fair ways behind NA emissions standards due to a number of factors. Lots of criticism of NEDC being a useless fairytale metric to measure diesel emissions but not sure if that has changed a lot post-2015.

 

[Wirko]

I am not in the slightest denying such laws in some countries exist, I am just unsure how a law prohibiting turning off stop/start in any country where the law prohibits it could be enforced if there was actually a button to do so fitted as standard to the vehicle?

There may not be that button or menu option present in cars sold in Germany.

But I tried to get to the bottom of that, found a publicly visible VIN of a 2022 VW Golf, then entered it here at VW's site to get access to the manual in German. Under Fahren > Start-Stopp-System, there's a description of how to manually disable and enable it (through menus). I don't see a warning stating it's forbidden, or might be forbidden in certain places. There are however warnings for two cases in which stop-and-go should be disabled: crossing over water with the car (up to a certain water level, the engine will work but may have trouble restarting), and doing any work in the engine compartment (so you can be absolutely sure it won't restart by itself).

 

[tabascosauz]

There may not be that button or menu option present in cars sold in Germany.

But I tried to get to the bottom of that, found a publicly visible VIN of a 2022 VW Golf, then entered it here at VW's site to get access to the manual in German. Under Fahren > Start-Stopp-System, there's a description of how to manually disable and enable it (through menus). I don't see a warning stating it's forbidden, or might be forbidden in certain places. There are however warnings for two cases in which stop-and-go should be disabled: crossing over water with the car (up to a certain water level, the engine will work but may have trouble restarting), and doing any work in the engine compartment (so you can be absolutely sure it won't restart by itself).

I can find quite a few sources about German law being quite stringent about fines for idling especially at startup (e.g. to heat up the cabin and defog on a cold day). So they certainly have their own ways of going about things. But still cannot find any reference to cars being sold in Germany mandated by law to prevent AS/S deactivation by button or other means, which goes back to my point about enforcement due to the way these systems work on all cars.

Environmental exclusive: Don’t idle your car

In the U.S., it is common to defrost windows by allowing a car to sit idly, however, this is against German law. If violated, a fine maybe issued.

www.ramstein.af.mil

 

[KLiKzg]

Especially since in most conventional cars (I suspect both true hybrids and mild hybrids have the additional Li-ion battery capacity to get around the issue) will turn the engine back on between 30 seconds to a few minutes after turning off, as part of normal battery management behaviours. Seems like a major obstacle to any real enforcement of any otherwise valid laws or regulations.

I personally don't know of any auto start/stop equipped cars that enable permanent disabling of the AS/S system through a push of a button. Might be exceptions, but certainly not the rule. Whether by dedicated button, or as part of being in a particular drive mode, or meeting certain requirements (e.g. cold ambient temp, cold engine), usually the system goes right back to enabled once the car is turned fully off and on again.

The more permanent methods usually involve modifications to software (ie. Forscan) or a dongle (e.g. Autostop Eliminator) - in those cases I can definitely see the law applying. But to be honest, if it is under the emissions justification as claimed, things like full diesel emissions compliance are and will always be far higher on the list of authorities' priorities, especially with Euro 6 coming into play for diesels since last year. Environmentally speaking, AS/S can save you a bit of gas, but that's about it.

I'll have to check but afaik even with Euro 6 Europe remains a fair ways behind NA emissions standards due to a number of factors. Lots of criticism of NEDC being a useless fairytale metric to measure diesel emissions but not sure if that has changed a lot post-2015.

Exactly, permanent change of car systems (which are not homologated) are not permitted. But almost every car that has AS/S system, has a button for OFF or in menus. Which is perfectly legal, as it is option within a car.


& also, yes - heating up a car is fined in most of the EU states. If they catch you up doing it or if you have (lousy) neighbors.

Personally I do not condone this act, but it makes sense for some people "waiting for people in hospital" with turned ON car (either with heater of AC during the summer). But those are "special cases of stupidity".

 

[Frick]

& also, yes - heating up a car is fined in most of the EU states. If they catch you up doing it or if you have (lousy) neighbors.

This is why engine heaters is a thing.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

This is why engine heaters is a thing.

So...two different versions of this. The person you are quoting...I think...means to start the car and raise the internal temperature to a comfortable level.

What I think you are referring to is heating up an engine block. In truly cold climates you have the option to build a heater block into diesel and similar engines. Said block exists to make sure the lines are all warmed...because diesel goes to a gel at low temperatures. Gels have a higher resistance to flow, thus they run badly until warmed up enough. This is less of an issue with gasoline...because its gel temperature is basically lower than when engine oil starts to not flow properly.


The former is not entirely legal due to wasting fuel in certain areas. The later is not required in most of Europe...because beyond Scandanavian regions it never gets that cold. I can only state factually that in MN in the US we can see the point where Fahrenheit and Celsius agree (-40), but a year in Germany required no more than a fleece jacket to be comfortable. Diesel snow plows often had those heater blocks in my experience. Relating this back to the topic at hand...I personally have never seen equipment that uses a heater block do engine start/stop because of the concern with keeping thing moving. You'd be surprised what windchill can do to any exposed fluid line that doesn't have a constant heat source....and plows generally use hydraulics to actuate their hardware.

 

[gurusmi]

I am not in the slightest denying such laws in some countries exist, I am just unsure how a law prohibiting turning off stop/start in any country where the law prohibits it could be enforced if there was actually a button to do so fitted as standard to the vehicle?

Quick-Service - Start - Stop - Aus

Es mag sehr punktuelle Situationen geben, in denen der Fahrer die Start-Stopp-Automatik (SSA) abschalten will. Und zwar nicht zeitweise durch Drücken des Tasters in der Mittelkonsole (mit automatischer Re-Aktivierung nach Aus- und Wiederanschalten der Zündung), sondern dauerhaft.

www.gute-fahrt.de

If you have such a button restart the engine the deaktivation is gone. A general deactivation (switched off after engine restart) has to be checked by the official technical check at the time it is built in. If it is unchecked but found one is not allowed to drive the car even one inch. Afaik there will be a big information in the dash because of that "malfunction" (Text in the display, enlightened button,...). The police takes the keys of that car and tows away the car. The reason is no insurance and no allowance to be part of the public traffic. If that is shown at the official car inspection the car won't pass it. It could be that the inspectors also read out the error memory (OBD2). But that's a guess. I don't know about that reading exactly. As easy as that. There has been a hell of disussions in german car forums exactly about that topic. In difference to other countries in germany one has to get to a technical inspection every year. that is mostly done at the car garage by special inspectors. The check lasts at least 15 mins and is processed by a checklist. All important components are checked.

 

[KLiKzg]

This is why engine heaters is a thing.

Engine heaters also use the fuel, for heating up. So that is the SS & not allowed to use them in the cars.

 

[Shrek]

I think we are talking electric block heaters.

 

[Frick]

Engine heaters also use the fuel, for heating up. So that is the SS & not allowed to use them in the cars.

Not electrical ones. Preheaters.

 

[Deleted member 185088]

View attachment 309009
So no more "automatic Start / Stop" nonsense.

Good to know, so when buying a new car one should look for this button first, or a car that doesn't have this stupid system.

 

[KLiKzg]

I think we are talking electric block heaters.

Which is the same kind of thing, if 2/3 of energy comes from natural gas or coal (in US).

Good to know, so when buying a new car one should look for this button first, or a car that doesn't have this stupid system.

I do not know about your preferences, but yes - in my case, I would definitely buy ICE car with AS/S OFF button ready & available.

But most like I would by hybrid, as those are the ones which have the best of both Worlds & they do not use starters (usually) & they can be charged either way (quickly on petrol station) & they can be relatively OK for environment (less CO2 & almost without NOx on petrol engines).

 

[Tatty_Two]

Quick-Service - Start - Stop - Aus

Es mag sehr punktuelle Situationen geben, in denen der Fahrer die Start-Stopp-Automatik (SSA) abschalten will. Und zwar nicht zeitweise durch Drücken des Tasters in der Mittelkonsole (mit automatischer Re-Aktivierung nach Aus- und Wiederanschalten der Zündung), sondern dauerhaft.

www.gute-fahrt.de

If you have such a button restart the engine the deaktivation is gone. A general deactivation (switched off after engine restart) has to be checked by the official technical check at the time it is built in. If it is unchecked but found one is not allowed to drive the car even one inch. Afaik there will be a big information in the dash because of that "malfunction" (Text in the display, enlightened button,...). The police takes the keys of that car and tows away the car. The reason is no insurance and no allowance to be part of the public traffic. If that is shown at the official car inspection the car won't pass it. It could be that the inspectors also read out the error memory (OBD2). But that's a guess. I don't know about that reading exactly. As easy as that. There has been a hell of disussions in german car forums exactly about that topic. In difference to other countries in germany one has to get to a technical inspection every year. that is mostly done at the car garage by special inspectors. The check lasts at least 15 mins and is processed by a checklist. All important components are checked.

In the UK all vehicles have to be inspected annually also, I just guess because we are allowed to turn off Stop/Start that it is not part of our check.