why cap fps 360hz monitor 360 and drop -> 333 fps.

[gibin00]

My problem is that I have input lag for some reason, even though everything is turned off, vsync, dyac, g-sync, even if it is turned on, if I increase the fps to 360, it drops to 333. the smoothness is worse, but it's still like the game isn't smooth) idea?



Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800x3d
RAMS: 2x8gb(KIT) Kingston FURY Beast 16GB DDR4 3200MHz KF432C16BBK2/16
Videocard: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4060 8gb OC
SSD: IN WINDOWS AND 2 GAME): Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB
SSD2: Kingston 2000GB M.2 NVMe 2280 PCIe 4.0
HDD1: TOSHIBA DT01ACA100
HDD2: TOSHIBA DT01ACA050
Mouse: Logitech G pro Superlight
Keyboard: Rapoo v720
Monitor: BenQ ZOWIE XL2566K 360hz

 

[droopyRO]

input lag

How do you measure that and in what games ? Did you try to force Vsync On, Low Latency to Ultra and Gsync to on from the drivers and frame cap to 357.

G-SYNC 101 - Blur Busters - Page 14

G-SYNC Module The G-SYNC module is a small chip that replaces the display's standard internal scaler, and contains enough onboard memory to hold and process a single frame at a time. The module exploits the vertical blanking interval (the span between the previous and next frame scan) to...

blurbusters.com

 

[Dr. Dro]

Few rules when engaging VRR:

You want a -6.8% VRR bias, so your target frame rate should be 335.52 on a 360 Hz monitor
You want too ensure that your GPU utilization is at or below 95% - this will ensure the lowest latencies available
You may want to toggle Nvidia Reflex depending on the game you are playing, some games actually suffer from an increased latency when enabling it (odd phenomenon, but can occur)

and lastly, the expectations you have for your PC are unreasonable. Your system may be too weak for a frame-perfect 360 Hz experience in some eSports titles. Even though you have the X3D CPU, it's still a socket AM4 system bound by relatively slow RAM and weaker IPC when compared to the latest generation Raptor Lake and Zen 4 systems, and your 4060 graphics card is simply not a frame pusher like the 4080 and 4090. A 144 Hz monitor might be a more humble, suitable target for your machine, you may never get the full 360 Hz experience out of it.

 

[Mussels]

My problem is that I have input lag for some reason, even though everything is turned off, vsync, dyac, g-sync, even if it is turned on, if I increase the fps to 360, it drops to 333. the smoothness is worse, but it's still like the game isn't smooth) idea?



Processor: AMD Ryzen 7 5800x3d
RAMS: 2x8gb(KIT) Kingston FURY Beast 16GB DDR4 3200MHz KF432C16BBK2/16
Videocard: GIGABYTE GeForce RTX 4060 8gb OC
SSD: IN WINDOWS AND 2 GAME): Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB
SSD2: Kingston 2000GB M.2 NVMe 2280 PCIe 4.0
HDD1: TOSHIBA DT01ACA100
HDD2: TOSHIBA DT01ACA050
Mouse: Logitech G pro Superlight
Keyboard: Rapoo v720
Monitor: BenQ ZOWIE XL2566K 360hz

If your GPU can't sustain the frame rates, you end up with frames rendered earlier by the CPU that are much older since they had to sit and wait for the GPU to catch up
You say "increase the FPS" but not WHAT you increased it from, so it's very incomplete information

This is from a busy area in Baldur's gate 3 on top of a monetary roof, no FPS cap vs 60FPS - you can see the 99% FPS rose massively and render latency dropped a huge amount, since the CPU wasnt forced to wait on the GPU to catch up

IMO a 4060 just doesnt have the power to run 360Hz except in E-sports titles at low settings.

You want a -6.8% VRR bias, so your target frame rate should be 335.52 on a 360 Hz monitor

Wheres that value come from? -2 FPS has been the target due to render ahead queues defaulting to that, I've never heard of this -6.8% value before now

 

[Dr. Dro]

Wheres that value come from? -2 FPS has been the target due to render ahead queues defaulting to that, I've never heard of this -6.8% value before now

Got that from Kaldaien (Special K developer), it's supposed to be a safe value which will ensure that a conflict between G-Sync and driver V-Sync limiter when running close too the refresh rate doesn't occur when using a software-based frame rate limiter while keeping the render latency as low as possible.

Smart guy, I respect him tons - regular at their server, even if there I show much more of my goofball side than usual. Blurbusters has the same advice, for example, you should target 224 fps variable for a 240 Hz monitor (240-6.8% = 224), it's in the same article @droopyRO linked earlier. In my experience it works well, I've been running my 144 Hz panel at 138 fps for some time now and the experience is awesome.

 

[joemama]

What do you mean by increase the FPS? The maximum FPS depends on your hardware performance, you can't just cap the FPS at a random number and expect it to increase.
Aside from that, are you sure the stuttering is not from the network lagging? 333 FPS is very high and not likely to be considered stuttering, you could test with some single player games not connected to the network to see if the internet is the issue.

 

[Mussels]

Got that from Kaldaien (Special K developer)

Special K is often quite unique with how it does things, the dev is definitely smart but i wouldnt assume that value applies to every situation
From what i know, he's talking about how various frame limiters aren't quite accurate - the Nvidia one usually is.

If i set a 58FPS limit on a 60Hz display with in-game limiters i could sometimes see that extra frames latency appear, and 57 would remove it.
Without VRR However, that brought in microstutter or tearing as every FPS away from Vsync makes things worse.


With a 120Hz+ VRR display there's zero negative to dropping a few FPS lower - i often game at 120 of 144, and even 60 in games like BG3 (since the lower mouse/keyboard latency often feels a lot better anyway)

 

[Dr. Dro]

Special K is often quite unique with how it does things, the dev is definitely smart but i wouldnt assume that value applies to every situation
From what i know, he's talking about how various frame limiters aren't quite accurate - the Nvidia one usually is.

If i set a 58FPS limit on a 60Hz display with in-game limiters i could sometimes see that extra frames latency appear, and 57 would remove it.
Without VRR However, that brought in microstutter or tearing as every FPS away from Vsync makes things worse.


With a 120Hz+ VRR display there's zero negative to dropping a few FPS lower - i often game at 120 of 144, and even 60 in games like BG3 (since the lower mouse/keyboard latency often feels a lot better anyway)

As always it's good to experiment, as every safe value is usually what the name says, that implies there may be a little room for optimization... that's what PC gaming is all about right

 

[Mussels]

As always it's good to experiment, as every safe value is usually what the name says, that implies there may be a little room for optimization... that's what PC gaming is all about right

Oh yeah, I just believe his mention on that math was focused on his findings with special K's framerate limiter more than what people should use in general
He says third party limiter which may not include Nvidias, or even in-game limiters

 

[gibin00]

How do you measure that and in what games ? Did you try to force Vsync On, Low Latency to Ultra and Gsync to on from the drivers and frame cap to 357.

G-SYNC 101 - Blur Busters - Page 14

G-SYNC Module The G-SYNC module is a small chip that replaces the display's standard internal scaler, and contains enough onboard memory to hold and process a single frame at a time. The module exploits the vertical blanking interval (the span between the previous and next frame scan) to...

blurbusters.com

In all fps games: I've tried these, it's much worse if I turn on g-sync, or what you did, nothing changes

Few rules when engaging VRR:

You want a -6.8% VRR bias, so your target frame rate should be 335.52 on a 360 Hz monitor
You want too ensure that your GPU utilization is at or below 95% - this will ensure the lowest latencies available
You may want to toggle Nvidia Reflex depending on the game you are playing, some games actually suffer from an increased latency when enabling it (odd phenomenon, but can occur)

and lastly, the expectations you have for your PC are unreasonable. Your system may be too weak for a frame-perfect 360 Hz experience in some eSports titles. Even though you have the X3D CPU, it's still a socket AM4 system bound by relatively slow RAM and weaker IPC when compared to the latest generation Raptor Lake and Zen 4 systems, and your 4060 graphics card is simply not a frame pusher like the 4080 and 4090. A 144 Hz monitor might be a more humble, suitable target for your machine, you may never get the full 360 Hz experience out of it.

Well, maybe when cs2 comes out, I hope it will be solved, even though I have 600-700 fps

Got that from Kaldaien (Special K developer), it's supposed to be a safe value which will ensure that a conflict between G-Sync and driver V-Sync limiter when running close too the refresh rate doesn't occur when using a software-based frame rate limiter while keeping the render latency as low as possible.

View attachment 310232

Smart guy, I respect him tons - regular at their server, even if there I show much more of my goofball side than usual. Blurbusters has the same advice, for example, you should target 224 fps variable for a 240 Hz monitor (240-6.8% = 224), it's in the same article @droopyRO linked earlier. In my experience it works well, I've been running my 144 Hz panel at 138 fps for some time now and the experience is awesome.

not option “ fixed refresh rate” Only to: Hightest refresh or Application control

What do you mean by increase the FPS? The maximum FPS depends on your hardware performance, you can't just cap the FPS at a random number and expect it to increase.
Aside from that, are you sure the stuttering is not from the network lagging? 333 FPS is very high and not likely to be considered stuttering, you could test with some single player games not connected to the network to see if the internet is the issue.

There is no internet problem as I have 500mbs internet
and my ping is a maximum of 8 ms

 

[sodium]

Wheres that value come from? -2 FPS has been the target due to render ahead queues defaulting to that, I've never heard of this -6.8% value before now

If you enable Nvidia Reflex on a 240Hz G-sync display with vsync on it will automatically cap to 224fps. This supports the 6.8% safety margin straight from Nvidia.

 

[Mussels]

If you enable Nvidia Reflex on a 240Hz G-sync display with vsync on it will automatically cap to 224fps. This supports the 6.8% safety margin straight from Nvidia.

Gsync doesn't cap frame rates.

That's to do with your Vsync implementation and possibly that unique display - having about 6 displays here in various Freesync/Gsync categories (and one Gsync ultimate at my brothers house) *none* of them cap or lower frame rates in any way.

 

[sodium]

Gsync doesn't cap frame rates.

That's to do with your Vsync implementation and possibly that unique display - having about 6 displays here in various Freesync/Gsync categories (and one Gsync ultimate at my brothers house) *none* of them cap or lower frame rates in any way.

G-sync is not capping the fps. Reflex (or ultra low latency) when combined with G-sync and Vsync is causing this intended automatic cap. You can read some replies from Jorimt here:

G-Sync & Vsync question with weird FPS cap - Blur Busters Forums

 

[Mussels]

G-sync is not capping the fps. Reflex (or ultra low latency) when combined with G-sync and Vsync is causing this intended automatic cap. You can read some replies from Jorimt here:

G-Sync & Vsync question with weird FPS cap - Blur Busters Forums

Right, i screwed up and misread that.

You're correct that reflex prevents maximum GPU usage, i haven't seen any FPS caps in my testing on 144Hz and 165Hz displays - without Vsync (or with Fast Vsync) it'll continue well past the refresh rate in what i've seen. That may be specific to the game or title tested.