Thoughts on liquid metal?

[lexluthermiester]

In short: don't use liquid metal on copper (or aluminium). That's basically the advice you'll find anywhere and everywhere.

Aluminium yes, Copper no. Copper is fine. Reaction rates are very low and slow.

 

[dgianstefani]

It's fine on copper, you just do a second application after a few months then leave it.

It creates an alloy, not like the reaction continues forever.

 

[Belfaborac]

Actually the reaction continues for quite some time and it certainly decreases thermal conduction. Applying even more would re-start the reaction and cause further degradation of thermal performance. Using it on anything other than nickel plating (or silver or gold, should you have any such) is basically counter-productive. A good traditional thermal paste would be a much better choice.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Actually the reaction continues for quite some time and it certainly decreases thermal conduction. Applying even more would re-start the reaction and cause further degradation of thermal performance. Using it on anything other than nickel plating (or silver or gold, should you have any such) is basically counter-productive.

The reaction rates of Gallium and Copper are measured in years of time spaces, the reaction penetration is measured in 1/100ths of a millimeter and the degradation of thermal performances is measured in the single percentile range. You're greatly over-reacting.

A good traditional thermal paste would be a much better choice.

To be fair, for those users not OCing, this statement is likely a good idea.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
On flat surfaces LM is just fine just don't use a lot seeing excess will drip off on vertical applications "normal case"
Issue with not so flat cpu's and many cooler heatsinks is contact issues that you'll not really notice with typical TP

So LM can be a PITA in short and really only useful if max ocing is the objective.
But yeah copper and LM isn't a big issue as some say when comparing to effects with LM and aluminum lol not even close and kind of like comparing marshmallows and carrots

 

[iameatingjam]

I have never thought about buying, or applying LM. I am not scared of it, I just don't have a need for it..

It does seem like a bit of a risk for what.. a couple of c's?

You wouldn't understand, you have an amd cpu.

jk

In short: don't use liquid metal on copper (or aluminium). That's basically the advice you'll find anywhere and everywhere.

There seem to be people who believe the effect on copper isn't damaging to performance. But again, at this point its an academic question, I wont be touching the stuff (because I have no need - not because I have anything against it)

 

[freeagent]

You wouldn't understand, you have an amd cpu.

What do you mean by that?

 

[iameatingjam]

What do you mean by that?

Nothing, which why I said jk after it. Intel cpus use more power. It was a joke. Sorry.

 

[freeagent]

Nothing, which why I said jk after it. Intel cpus use more power. It was a joke. Sorry.

Its all good..

My CPU uses about 255w.. pretty close to an Intel

Edit:

Can use..

 

[dgianstefani]

The power total is irrelevant, many 250 W+ Intel CPUs run cooler than AMD sub 100 W.

The issue is heat density, so thermal transfer capacity is important. Hence liquid metal.

You can add as many fans or radiators as you want to your build, the bottleneck will still be from the die to the IHS/coldplate.

 

[lexluthermiester]

But again, at this point its an academic question, I wont be touching the stuff.

Fair enough. I'll take an exit.

 

[ThrashZone]

I wont be touching the stuff (because I have no need - not because I have anything against it)

Hi,
Indeed this is the best reason to not use it.

 

[phanbuey]

Actually the reaction continues for quite some time and it certainly decreases thermal conduction. Applying even more would re-start the reaction and cause further degradation of thermal performance. Using it on anything other than nickel plating (or silver or gold, should you have any such) is basically counter-productive. A good traditional thermal paste would be a much better choice.

^This. i've tried the "do a layer, let it dry and then do the real layer" and that also dries up in 12 months.

Btw sanding LM off your chip and copper block gets old real fast.

 

[Bones]

SO many things can be dangerous if you have no idea what you're doing and can't be arsed to gather a little info before setting out to do something. Which is why I stated exactly what minuscule additional steps are needed to make it safe.

I'm glad you did that.

Which is pretty much exactly what I wrote. Not sure why the repetition is particularly needed.

That's because I was agreeing with you and I was making the point that I do, no need to degrade the statement that agrees with you.

Which is why I never said it's "no problem" or that ""nothing can go wrong", but rather that if you observe two little steps (electrical isolation of the components around the socket + applying only a very thin layer of liquid metal) then nothing can go wrong.

In your own words:

With just a tiny bit of care there's really nothing that can go wrong

Which is why I had to point that out because the words are there - Directly from your own post within both quotes.

Maybe you didn't intend for it to be that way but there is no denying the words used, which are important because even though you and I may understand it in one way as in "That Way", another may not and things could go bad from there.
Just sayin.

Why you feel the need to misrepresent what I wrote I don't know.

Nothing was misrepresented, the point about a novice is still valid and applies when considering all the work you must do to set a system up for it.

Delidding a chip is risky even to an experienced builder, much less to a novice with little to no experience - Even selecting the correct cooler by it's composition, be it an aluminum or aluminum/nickel plated cooler as examples has to be the correctly chosen for use with LM or a bad choice could be made and used.

A novice may or may not make the correct choice about it out of sheer ignorance about the subject at hand which would be unfortunate.

To each his own. Personally I see no reason not to use it, given that it's just as easy as using regular paste and the superior results are certainly nice to have.

I MUST agree with this because it's also true, you can use whatever you want.

My real point in the end is pertaining to all this is for folks to know what they are getting into BEFORE they make the step towards that end and that involves the entire process of using LM. Referring to the first quote I made from you, since you are experienced with it why not just create a guide of how to with do's and don'ts included about it?

That would be of tremendous value and help with the subject here.

 

[iameatingjam]

Sorry to change the subject but since this thread has some context on the matter, would this microcode downgrade prevent me from downloading the intel application optimization app or w/e its called? I get an error every time I try to download it. Then again, there are other comments saying the same thing so..... maybe its not? idk. I get it doesn't really do anything yet but still I'm curious thats supposed to be one of the benefits of 14th gen. Why can't intel just host the file?

Btw my undervolt just keeps going, I got to -250mv offset and still it wasn't crashing when stressed. Did ts bench no errors and passmark no problems at all, gamed on it too. Thats a lot more than my other cpus could take. I'm unsure if I should even try going higher. Guess I don't really need to, already got a significant thermal benefit, 7c on package and 12c on pcores.

 

[phanbuey]

Sorry to change the subject but since this thread has some context on the matter, would this microcode downgrade prevent me from downloading the intel application optimization app or w/e its called? I get an error every time I try to download it. Then again, there are other comments saying the same thing so..... maybe its not? idk. I get it doesn't really do anything yet but still I'm curious thats supposed to be one of the benefits of 14th gen. Why can't intel just host the file?

Btw my undervolt just keeps going, I got to -250mv offset and still it wasn't crashing when stressed. Did ts bench no errors and passmark no problems at all, gamed on it too. Thats a lot more than my other cpus could take. I'm unsure if I should even try going higher. Guess I don't really need to, already got a significant thermal benefit, 7c on package and 12c on pcores.

That's awesome -- can you post some cinebench temps?

 

[iameatingjam]

That's awesome -- can you post some cinebench temps?

Sweet! got a higher score and the temps never went above 90. And most of the time they were in the mid 80s. Can't believe it never hit tjmax. I never thought that would be possible with my 240 aio.

 

[phanbuey]

aaaaamazing - looks like locked at 5.5 ghz... really nice.

 

[Fangio1951]

Here you go - my setup with i9-9900K, delidded with full copper IHS and Thermal Grizzly Conductonaut.

My cpu temps under water dropped by around 23 deg C.

Also, I've been using Conductonaut previously on = i7-4700K and i7-7700K, with similar temp results.

Never had any problems with them.

 

[Outback Bronze]

intel application optimization app

I believe you needed a 14900K/F.

From W1zz's own review: The feature is available on select 14th Gen Core processor models, such as the i9-14900K/KF

 

[iameatingjam]

I believe you needed a 14900K/F.

From W1zz's own review: The feature is available on select 14th Gen Core processor models, such as the i9-14900K/KF

Intel's site says its suppossed to work the the 14700k/kf too...

Intel® Application Optimization Overview

Explains Intel® Application Optimization for gaming optimization.

www.intel.com

It says I need 'dynamic tuning technology' whatever that is. Couldn't find anything like that in the bios, and I found some drivers but none were for gigabyte. Ugh.

Maybe I need to wait for something to be done to the bios or maybe I just need a Z board I really don't know. But it refuses to download.

-----------


Huh, it works. Had to install some asrock driver of all things. Anyway metro exodus went from 370 to 410 fps at 1080p. Interesting.

Not much use to me until I get a new monitor. I do hope they keep working at it though. And they need to make the installation process way easier. Intel needs to supply the software and drivers. Getting drivers from other mobo manufacturers, not intuitive. And why the microsoft store?

 

[phanbuey]

Intel's site says its suppossed to work the the 14700k/kf too...

Intel® Application Optimization Overview

Explains Intel® Application Optimization for gaming optimization.

www.intel.com

It says I need 'dynamic tuning technology' whatever that is. Couldn't find anything like that in the bios, and I found some drivers but none were for gigabyte. Ugh.

View attachment 320958
Maybe I need to wait for something to be done to the bios or maybe I just need a Z board I really don't know. But it refuses to download.

-----------


Huh, it works. Had to install some asrock driver of all things. Anyway metro exodus went from 370 to 410 fps at 1080p. Interesting.

Not much use to me until I get a new monitor. I do hope they keep working at it though. And they need to make the installation process way easier. Intel needs to supply the software and drivers. Getting drivers from other mobo manufacturers, not intuitive. And why the microsoft store?

I've seen alot of pushing of the microsoft store lately.

 

[95Viper]

Let's stick to the topic.
If you wish to discuss other info... create a thread in the appropriate forum section.

 

[iameatingjam]

Let's stick to the topic.
If you wish to discuss other info... create a thread in the appropriate forum section.

Sorry sir. Well the issue of this thread has been solved so it could probably be closed.