80% charge

[Shrek]

As I understand it, lithium batteries last much longer if not taken over 80% charge; is there a Windows utility to achieve this obective for laptops?

 

[sam_86314]

I'm pretty sure it depends on the laptop since this kind of thing would be controlled by the BIOS.

For certain ASUS laptops, you can use G-Helper to limit charge.

My Dell Latitude 5179 has a BIOS setting to limit charge, and Dell probably has a utility that can change that in the OS.

 

[evernessince]

Windows 10 and 11 have a feature called smart charging built in that does this, although the feature may not be supported on older hardware. In addition many laptop manufacturers tend to include battery charging options in the BIOS on their new laptop models. There are plenty of applications that can set an alarm for when your battery exceeds a certain limit but none outside of what windows or the manufacturer provide that can directly limit the battery charge. That's probably due to security reasons given that it might be an issue if 3rd party apps could directly access hardware controls.

 

[Bill_Bright]

As I understand it, lithium batteries last much longer if not taken over 80% chare; is there a Windows utility to achieve this obective for laptops?

My MSI laptop has this feature/option built into the hardware. That makes sense to me since our laptops need to be smart enough to deal with this when they are not booted into Windows - or if they are using an alternative OS like Linux. So, check your device manual.

That said, there seems to be many opinions on this. But in my opinion it makes zero sense to NOT charge our batteries to 100%. If that made sense, then the battery makers and associated charger makers could easily design these devices to, by default, stop charging at 80%. But they don't.

What does make sense is we should avoid charging Li-Ion batteries to 100% then sticking them, unused, fully charged on the shelf and stored fully charged for extended periods. That is, I see no reason we cannot plug in our cell phones and laptops, let them fully charge, then unplug them and start using them - which is exactly how the vast majority of users use these devices.

"IF" you are one to leave your laptop plugged in for days or weeks at a time, then you might want to ensure it is set to avoid charging all the way to 100%.

 

[Macro Device]

Agree with @Bill_Bright here. Batteries are the last thing to die in my portable devices and I always charge them to 100% if I have enough time to do so. Just don't use quick charge if you can wait for your device to get loaded with Amperes properly. OG cables + low wattage charge + keeping temperatures reasonable = long lasting battery. Not charging over 80 percent? Just why?

 

[Shrek]

My MSI laptop has this feature/option built into the hardware. That makes sense to me since our laptops need to be smart enough to deal with this when they are not booted into Windows - or if they are using an alternative OS like Linux. So, check your device manual.

That said, there seems to be many opinions on this. But in my opinion it makes zero sense to NOT charge our batteries to 100%. If that made sense, then the battery makers and associated charger makers could easily design these devices to, by default, stop charging at 80%. But they don't.

What does make sense is we should avoid charging Li-Ion batteries to 100% then sticking them, unused, fully charged on the shelf and stored fully charged for extended periods. That is, I see no reason we cannot plug in our cell phones and laptops, let them fully charge, then unplug them and start using them - which is exactly how the vast majority of users use these devices.

"IF" you are one to leave your laptop plugged in for days or weeks at a time, then you might want to ensure it is set to avoid charging all the way to 100%.

I belive android phones have the 80% option (to extend battery life).

Lithium-Ion Battery Care Guide: Summary Of Battery Best Practices - CleanTechnica
"Unlike most other battery types (especially lead acid), lithium-ion batteries do not like being stored at high charge levels. Charging and then storing them above 80% hastens capacity loss."

 

[Bill_Bright]

Quick charge is not a problem AS LONG AS you don't throw a blanket over the devices, or put them in direct sunlight while charging. But that's the same concern no matter what charge rate you use.

Batteries will naturally take on the charge rate they can absorb - depending on the capability of the charger.

That is, chargers don't "push" a charge, batteries "pull" it. It does not matter the technology of the battery (as long as it is a rechargeable battery). This is why you can charge a car battery with a high-amperage connection via jumper cables from another vehicle, or you can charge the same battery with a tiny "trickle" charger. One just takes minutes, the other takes many hours.

 

[Shrek]

"Unlike most other battery types (especially lead acid), lithium-ion batteries do not like being stored at high charge levels. Charging and then storing them above 80% hastens capacity loss."

Not talking about quick charge.

 

[Vayra86]

I use a VW ID3 that also reports it prefers an 80% charge. I have 66500 KM on the clock now and always charged to 100%. If I would indeed go to 80% and also stay away from the bottom 20%... that leaves me a daily range of some 200KM in optimal conditions. Well.. sorry VW, but I bought a car with 420 Km WLTP. Not one with less than half of it. Screw those recommendations.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Not talking about quick charge.

I know you are not. My bad for not specifying I was replying to a different post (not yours) that said, "Just don't use quick charge".

To reiterate, quick charge is fine. Charging to 100% is fine too "IF" the user is going start using the device (thus discharging battery) soon. Charging to 100% then storing the battery for extended periods is NOT fine.

 

[JoeTheDestroyer]

That said, there seems to be many opinions on this. But in my opinion it makes zero sense to NOT charge our batteries to 100%. If that made sense, then the battery makers and associated charger makers could easily design these devices to, by default, stop charging at 80%. But they don't.

Some manufacturers *do* limit the charge range, when they are on the hook for battery life. Specifically, look at electric vehicles, their batteries are spec'd with both a maximum and usable capacity, and it's for exactly this reason, to limit the charge range to extend battery life.

But the devices being discussed here, the manufacturer would rather the battery died sooner and you bought a new device. But I agree that the issue is mostly overblown, barring a few problematic habits.

"IF" you are one to leave your laptop plugged in for days or weeks at a time, then you might want to ensure it is set to avoid charging all the way to 100%.

Or you have a desktop replacement, whose battery is only to get you from one outlet to another. But yes, that's one of the bad habits.

Another situation to avoid is "topping off" the charge on your device every night, if you only use a small portion of the charge daily. (Thus it will spend most of its life at the more damaging charge levels.) Better to let the battery run down and only charge as needed. (Unless you anticipate needing a full charge the next day, that's fine. This isn't about things you should never do, but rather about things you regularly do.)

 

[Bill_Bright]

Specifically, look at electric vehicles

I have and with the ones I looked at, you can charge them for 100% "IF" for example, you are going on a road trip and need maximum range. But the default is for local driving so ~80% is the default setting.

 

[Vayra86]

I have and with the ones I looked at, you can charge them for 100% "IF" for example, you are going on a road trip and need maximum range. But the default is for local driving so ~80% is the default setting.

Exactly... and if they would indeed have a secret extra bit of charge in there beyond the 100% we see... that wouldn't properly explain why we have to limit them at 80%. Let alone the technical aspect of it, I can't imagine exactly how that would work, as all battery cells share a single system.

 

[P4-630]

As I understand it, lithium batteries last much longer if not taken over 80% chare

My experience with various batteries is that SLOW charging is much more important then 80%, I charge all my batteries and devices 100%, just slow and haven't found degration.

Edit, as for a laptop battery and it's charging, I don't think you are able to control that. (only when you pull the charging cord then)

 

[JoeTheDestroyer]

I have and with the ones I looked at, you can charge them for 100% "IF" for example, you are going on a road trip and need maximum range. But the default is for local driving so ~80% is the default setting.

I can name two...

First is Tesla. It's well known they limit usable charge because, for example, a while back during a hurricane in Florida they temporarily issued a firmware update to release more capacity to give evacuees more range.

Second is Toyota with their plug-in hybrids. They explicitly limit what you (and the hybrid system) are allowed to charge the battery to. (Though, if I recall correctly, regen breaking is allowed to go over that limit.)

Exactly... and if they would indeed have a secret extra bit of charge in there beyond the 100% we see... that wouldn't properly explain why we have to limit them at 80%. Let alone the technical aspect of it, I can't imagine exactly how that would work, as all battery cells share a single system.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying here, but...

First off, the best possible situation for a li-ion battery is to be at *50% charge*. The 80% number that gets tossed around is a tradeoff between capacity you lose by undercharging versus improved battery lifetime due to the same. So technically, even if the manufacturer limits you to 80% and then you limit yourself to 80% of that (i.e. 64% total), you are still technically treating your battery better. But practically speaking, it's just not worth it to take things that far.

Frankly I have no idea what you mean by "technical aspect", it's trivial. The battery system charges to 80%, but the device reports that to you as "100%". Simple arithmetic, one line of code in the firmware.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I can name two...

I don't really care. My point is this. If the battery maker says the battery should not be charged to 100%, and instead, limits it to 80%, then stop calling 80% "80%". Starting calling 80% what it really is - the maximum amount allowed, or 100%.

I may be wrong but I think that is what Vayra is eluding to when it comes to the technical aspect.

 

[Wirko]

My point is this. If the battery maker says the battery should not be charged to 100%, and instead, limits it to 80%, then stop calling 80% "80%". Starting calling 80% what it really is - the maximum amount allowed, or 100%.

That's fine - but does charging to 80% give me the advertised battery capacity, in kilowatt-hours?

 

[Vayra86]

I don't really care. My point is this. If the battery maker says the battery should not be charged to 100%, and instead, limits it to 80%, then stop calling 80% "80%". Starting calling 80% what it really is - the maximum amount allowed, or 100%.

I may be wrong but I think that is what Vayra is eluding to when it comes to the technical aspect.

That's fine - but does charging to 80% give me the advertised battery capacity, in kilowatt-hours?

This exactly, combined. Sure you can fool the user, but then you really do offer a much larger battery than what you say on a spec sheet. And what happens if I drop to the fake 0% and the car actually still does have range? It leaves me by the roadside? Or do I unlock that secret sauce?

Its comparable to that 5L of bottom capacity you dont see in the fuel gauge of an ICE, except not quite, since range is a key USP for EV's. Ive dropped my ID3 to 2% at one point, and it really is over when you hit zero.

Frankly I have no idea what you mean by "technical aspect", it's trivial. The battery system charges to 80%, but the device reports that to you as "100%". Simple arithmetic, one line of code in the firmware.

Exactly. So if that trick is implemented why would I not charge 100%.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

Just don't use the laptop while its charging, it should maintain battery health better than 80 % charge limit fear mongering

A lot of laptops battery problems are a result of people using the laptops while its charging

 

[Bill_Bright]

That's fine - but does charging to 80% give me the advertised battery capacity, in kilowatt-hours?

I bet not. But you will have to show us a specific ad and then the actual spec sheet for the battery to find out, one way or the other.

I think it important to note here that it is highly unlikely Apple, Samsung, MSI, ASUS, etc. are the actual manufacturers of the batteries that go into their devices. Surely they outsource their batteries to an OEM battery manufacturer.

That said, is the capacity in kilowatt-hours really the spec you are most concerned about? Or is battery runtime?

Me? I want to know how long my laptop, cell phone, or Bluetooth speaker will run on battery. If the battery maker claims the battery charged to 100% will give me 10 hours of runtime, but when I get my new laptop home and discover the laptop only allows me to charge to 80% providing just 8 hours of runtime, I might feel I am getting ripped off - depending on how the laptop was "marketed".

Just don't use the laptop while its charging

Except that really makes no sense. Who wants to wait around for their laptop to charge before using it? No one - ever.

All laptop chargers that come with "genuine" laptops (not counterfeit laptops) are designed to provide enough power to run the laptop and charge the battery at the same time. And yes, that is a blanket/absolute statement, but just a fact.

"IF" the battery is heavily discharged, the laptop's power monitoring circuits "may" dim the monitor or throttle back performance a bit, or even slow down charging. But the chargers will still will allow the laptop to run while the battery charges.

BTW, when having to buy a replacement charger, this fact (running the laptop and charging the battery at the same time) is exactly why we must always buy a replacement charger with the same or greater current/wattage capability - NEVER less current. And always the same output voltage.

If you have no choice but to buy a less capable charger, then @Solid State Soul ( SSS ) is correct; don't use the laptop while charging.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

I bet not. But you will have to show us a specific ad and then the actual spec sheet for the battery to find out, one way or the other.

I think it important to note here that it is highly unlikely Apple, Samsung, MSI, ASUS, etc. are the actual manufacturers of the batteries that go into their devices. Surely they outsource their batteries to an OEM battery manufacturer.

That said, is the capacity in kilowatt-hours really the spec you are most concerned about? Or is battery runtime?

Me? I want to know how long my laptop, cell phone, or Bluetooth speaker will run on battery. If the battery maker claims the battery charged to 100% will give me 10 hours of runtime, but when I get my new laptop home and discover the laptop only allows me to charge to 80% providing just 8 hours of runtime, I might feel I am getting ripped off - depending on how the laptop was "marketed".


Except that really makes no sense. Who wants to wait around for their laptop to charge before using it? No one - ever.

All laptop chargers that come with "genuine" laptops (not counterfeit laptops) are designed to provide enough power to run the laptop and charge the battery at the same time. And yes, that is a blanket/absolute statement, but just a fact.

"IF" the battery is heavily discharged, the laptop's power monitoring circuits "may" dim the monitor or throttle back performance a bit, or even slow down charging. But the chargers will still will allow the laptop to run while the battery charges.

BTW, when having to buy a replacement charger, this fact (running the laptop and charging the battery at the same time) is exactly why we must always buy a replacement charger with the same or greater current/wattage capability - NEVER less current. And always the same output voltage.

If you have no choice but to buy a less capable charger, then @Solid State Soul ( SSS ) is correct; don't use the laptop while charging.

Using the laptop while its charging cause the battery to heat up, reducing its health

 

[Bill_Bright]

Using the laptop while its charging cause the battery to heat up, reducing its health

Yeah, okay - but using the laptop at any time will cause it to heat up. That's an inherent problem with all laptops. They can pack the horsepower of PCs into those tiny cases, but not the cooling.

But the fact is, it takes a lot more power to operate the CPU, GPU, and particularly the display screen than it does to charge the battery. Those devices generate the most heat. Most of that charging heat is concentrated in charger.

You are right - I am not suggesting otherwise. But again, people don't buy laptops to sit around and not use them while they wait for them to charge. In fact, more and more users these days are using them like they would a PC.

 

[unwind-protect]

The original premise is correct, LiIon batteries don't like being at 100%, and neither do they like 0%.

The 80% are kinda pulled out of thin air as a compromise between battery life and user convenience (in case you need to suddenly leave for a meeting). I don't think there is any data on whether 50% might be even better or whether 90% is equally effective.

Modern macBooks automatically charge to 80% when you mostly use them plugged in. In case it doesn't do that automatically to your liking there is some tool, the name escapes me right now.

 

[Bill_Bright]

The original premise is correct, LiIon batteries don't like being at 100%, and neither do they like 0%.

IMO, you left out one critical word, "stored" - at least for the first part. They don't like being "stored" at 100%.

I think it safe to say no battery likes being at 0%, regardless the length of time being there. When all chemical reaction has ceased (0%) the battery is dead, dead, and double dead - and ain't coming back. The exception might be when the battery has been exposed for extended periods of time to "extreme" cold, as in -70°C or colder cold. If the casing does not crack, the battery might come back to life after thawing.

 

[nguyen]

I read that it's more harmful to fully drain the battery than it is to charge to 100%, so yeah if you have limited access to charging station, it's better to charge to 100%