Moderation Too Strict

[Ahhzz]

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Am I correct Low Quality Post by [user] are a transitional act of moderation allowing examination of troubling statements so they might not be repeated. As opposed to simply hiding them from public access while under reviewal.


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I'll answer this, I think I understand the question. No, they're not being "transitioned", generally speaking. They're "marked" or hidden from "plain view", as someone in the staff consider them exactly that: Low Quality. Someone posted something that's not really super-off-topic, or not really trolling... Mainly posts that "toe the line" really, really close. They're marked low quality as a way of removing them from the flow of the thread to keep them from interrupting it, without removing them completely, as someone might find some redeeming quality in them worth reading.

It comes down to exactly what the marking indicates: A Low Quality post. Probably not worth your time.

Well basically, it could have been construed as humourous which it was meant to be or any other way whomever decided. Just would have been nice to know the reason for the ban to avoid it in the future.

To answer this one, if you have a post that was removed, Please, Please reach out to the mod who removed it, or if they forgot to "tag" it (I'm guilty of that on occasion), reach out to any staff member, and tell them that you had a post removed, you're not really sure why, and you'd like to discuss it with the mod who removed it. I've gotten a few contacts that way, had some useful, and not so much, discussions with members that way. Always reach out. Despite what some may think, we are attempting to moderate In Moderation, we are held accountable by each other, and by W1zz, and we are human, make mistakes, and are willing to discuss almost any infraction given.

 

[mechtech]

I'll answer this, I think I understand the question. No, they're not being "transitioned", generally speaking. They're "marked" or hidden from "plain view", as someone in the staff consider them exactly that: Low Quality. Someone posted something that's not really super-off-topic, or not really trolling... Mainly posts that "toe the line" really, really close. They're marked low quality as a way of removing them from the flow of the thread to keep them from interrupting it, without removing them completely, as someone might find some redeeming quality in them worth reading.

It comes down to exactly what the marking indicates: A Low Quality post. Probably not worth your time.


To answer this one, if you have a post that was removed, Please, Please reach out to the mod who removed it, or if they forgot to "tag" it (I'm guilty of that on occasion), reach out to any staff member, and tell them that you had a post removed, you're not really sure why, and you'd like to discuss it with the mod who removed it. I've gotten a few contacts that way, had some useful, and not so much, discussions with members that way. Always reach out. Despite what some may think, we are attempting to moderate In Moderation, we are held accountable by each other, and by W1zz, and we are human, make mistakes, and are willing to discuss almost any infraction given.

Thanks

But I don't even know. I think there are 3 mods for that forum area, and it was awhile ago now. I will keep that in mind in the future..........if it ever happens again.

 

[Ahhzz]

Thanks

But I don't even know. I think there are 3 mods for that forum area, and it was awhile ago now. I will keep that in mind in the future..........if it ever happens again.

you can tag any of the mods. We don't segregate based on our assigned areas.. heck, I've even talked to Sneeky and the Tattered One before... and they're demi-gods...

 

[wolf]

From my perspective the biggest issue is that Moderation can be inconsistent depending on who takes action, and perhaps letting their own biases of either tech or knowing the users influence decisions. Example, in a thread where I had a disagreement with someone, which was all civil and above board (from both of our perspectives), no name calling, no insults, just a disagreement on the validity of basically being on topic in the thread I created with very specific parameters.

I reported their last post as I felt we were at an impasse solving it ourselves, I wrote a comprehensive reason as to why I believed they were not posting in the spirit of a thread created with a high specific purpose. Then two different mods took two very different actions.

One mod jumped into the thread, reviewed the context and agreed that it wasn't on topic, and tantamount to trolling, and got the thread back on track - nicely done.

Another mod started a chat with us both, called us childish and forced us to put each other on ignore for several months, a solution neither of us wanted or asked for. We have healthy disagreements all the time. And, well I don't agree that having a civil disagreement is inherently childish, that's how we learn and grow, and nothing about the interactions themselves were childish.

Big disparity in mod action there that was perplexing and one of the two thoroughly missed the mark, and we weren't given a choice on the matter. I contemplated raising this with W1zzard but ultimately didn't think there was anything to gain, even from the constructive criticism.

A more minor/rare issue, that also varies depending on who sees it, is reporting toxic/low value/flame bait posts, by the definition/spirit of the forum rules and my own compass. Now when/if I report them, and see mods in the thread, and some time later no action was visibly taken, I've replied calling the person out/rebutting, making a counterpoint etc, then I get reported, a mod jumps in and deletes the lot, including the first post I reported where nothing was originally done... I've had the message a few times now to not become part of the problem, but from my perspective, allowing the original post to remain is a bigger problem, so I'm happier to jump in, straddle that line and get it all removed.

Now, of course I have been problematic at times too! this isn't me claiming to have some sort of moral or ethical high ground or that I'm perfect, I've certainly overstepped the line here or there and allowed arguing to continue, rebutted in a trollish way etc, but I spose the thread is about moderation so here we are.

It's not perfect, and likely never can be, the mods are human after all, just sharing some examples of where I feel the mark gets missed.

I would jump at the chance to be a moderator on this forum myself, help tidy up the sh*tposting and toxicity I see, without being 'part' of the problem, kind of take a step back from contribution to help the forum remain the place I fell in love with two decades ago.

 

[Space Lynx]

you can tag any of the mods. We don't segregate based on our assigned areas.. heck, I've even talked to Sneeky and the Tattered One before... and they're demi-gods...

I have been told in the past to refer to the moderators of which forum I am in asking a question about, whether it be a post, a dock points, or anything really. So, you might be ok with this advice, but don't lead the lad astray. Not all mods feel this way, some want you to specifically only ask the mods appropriate for that said forum. Just my own personal experience.

For those who don't know what we are talking about, see picture below: each forum has it's own mods in charge of it, and that is technically who you should message if you were docked points say in a thread in overclocking and cooling, you would want to contact one of those three, or tag all 3 in the same message. /shrug

 

[R-T-B]

I think this is a good valid conversation to have, feedback wise.

That being said, I personally have no issues with how you run things here. The only time I ever did I was mainly complaining about it being TOO lax, and that was a while ago.

There was a brief exception to this opinion, where I had a paranoid thought or two, however I'll have it be known I was having a bad reaction to some meds back then. I'm sure w1zzard and sneeky remember. No worries. You guys are all good in my book.

 

[Toothless]

Start of this thread was sure a rollercoaster.

 

[Ruru]

I disagree. From 99% of the time it looks that moderators are more like normal users, posting normally.

I've seen forums with hella crappy moderation and TPU isn't one of those.

 

[nguyen]

Well gotta say there are too many ways to moderate in TPU, mods can do these:
1.Edit posts
2.Delete posts
3.LQing posts
4.Reply Ban
5.Give Infraction points

For the sake of consistency in moderating, I think that 1.Editting and 2.Deleting posts should not be used at all, just LQing posts before handing out replay ban and infractions should be good enough.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Well gotta say there are too many ways to moderate in TPU, mods can do these:
1.Edit posts
2.Delete posts
3.LQing posts
4.Reply Ban
5.Give Infraction points

For the sake of consistency in moderating, I think that 1.Editting and 2.Deleting posts should not be used at all, just LQing posts before handing out replay ban and infractions should be good enough.

I think editing and deleting without issuing reply bans or points is fairer than just issuing points or preventing further discourse. A good cleanup is required in a thread sometimes.

 

[nguyen]

I think editing and deleting without issuing reply bans or points is fairer than just issuing points or preventing further discourse. A good cleanup is required in a thread sometimes.

I haven't seen one derailed thread got cleaned, rather they are all locked.

Editing and Deleting posts are never fair, as they can hide evidences of users wrong-doing (or not). Let say some mods can either edit your post or just straght up give out infractions depending on their moods.

 

[maxfly]

I've no idea what all the hub bub is about. TPU is fine. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

 

[Calenhad]

I haven't seen one derailed thread got cleaned, rather they are all locked.

Editing and Deleting posts are never fair, as they can hide evidences of users wrong-doing (or not). Let say some mods can either edit your post or just straght up give out infractions depending on their moods.

You need to look harder, I have seen several cleaned threads. Often followed by a warning by the mod to either stop that behaviour or the thread will be locked. And sometimes they end up locked because users don't listen to said warning.

I have moderated some forums in my life, and sometimes deleting a post to keep the flow of the thread is absolutely the right thing to do. If you think that is unfair you should've thought about that before you made that post.

Generally speaking I am impressed with the mods on this forum. My experience is that if you behave like a grown up, they will treat you like one. But succumb to the red mist or misbehave in general ...

 

[tabascosauz]

I have been told in the past to refer to the moderators of which forum I am in asking a question about, whether it be a post, a dock points, or anything really. So, you might be ok with this advice, but don't lead the lad astray. Not all mods feel this way, some want you to specifically only ask the mods appropriate for that said forum. Just my own personal experience.

For those who don't know what we are talking about, see picture below: each forum has it's own mods in charge of it, and that is technically who you should message if you were docked points say in a thread in overclocking and cooling, you would want to contact one of those three, or tag all 3 in the same message. /shrug

It's not taboo in any way to tag us. It's just that some users try to flag us down in hopes that we'll immediately do something about what's got them riled up. I can't, if I don't have powers in that forum, and no one who does is online.

It doesn't matter how many times people report that same post in hopes that something will happen - it won't until someone who can do something shows up. Yes, it happens all the time. Yes, we saw your first report already.

For the sake of consistency in moderating, I think that 1.Editting and 2.Deleting posts should not be used at all, just LQing posts before handing out replay ban and infractions should be good enough.

Sorry, that's not happening for obvious reasons. Entire pages of wholly off-topic/argumentative/offensive content are not going to be left alone as LQ. Same reason we don't go around deleting every actionable instance on the forums - different tools for different contexts.

 

[Kursah]

I'm on TPU since 2005 and in the past couple of years I noticed the moderation became extreme.

Like in real life discussion, it would be nice sometimes to make a joke, or even a tiny profanity, or even non-specific general insult. Some sense of humor.

But here the moderation over the years became worse even than government officials. Here you automatically get a warning even for bread crumbs.

God forbid if one makes a sexist joke, or post a funny GIF in response to a comment. Oh!!! "Only link or image posted".

@W1zzard

Maybe its time to do changes to the mod team.

Thank you for the feedback and your perspective.

Let's be clear, you crossed a line and earned points. We don't hand them out like candy, but if you feel that way, then I hope you invested in a good toothbrush.

Like your warning, this topic will fade over time, folks will move onto more important things like enjoying TPU as the great tech site and forum that it is, some might even leave TPU over it, but most will stay, some lurkers may even join after reading this topic. I hope like your warning might yet do for you, that some good comes of this topic for many members, because I know there is good coming from this topic within the moderation team.

We are a strong team of dedicated members to TPU that do this moderation thing for free while aiming to do our best at it, and you've done a fine job of showing the community that we're all in lock-step in support of each other with a focus on making TPU the best it can be and meet W1z's expectations of us, which may or may not align with your perception.

We strive to constantly improve, we aren't perfect, we make mistakes, we aren't emotionless robots, we try to learn and grow as we move forward in this community/moderation relationship, and sometimes it seems we fall out of alignment. You starting this topic might just be an example of that misalignment. Its okay, it happens. I hope we can someday re-align, but clearly the TPU you see and TPU I see and moderate are different. Of course I'm biased as Pro-TPU though, otherwise why would I be here posting as a super-admin? W1z have long ago booted me if I were anything but.

To try and plead your case publicly though,...sigh... I mean, I hope you feel a little better for it, but do realize you're explicitly breaking the rules here for so you can host a public fit to "toss out the evil moderatorz". I guess for someone that's been a member for so long, I expected better of you as you did us it seems. So, it seems you're not the only one disappointed in what you stirred up.

That being said, this topic really ended up being a great discussion overall, and I want to thank every member for taking time to leave comments, feedbacks, challenges, complaints, etc., including you Regeneration. Sometimes a good vent session can be extremely useful all around.

To be clear, we don't have to be like reddit, 4chan, YouTube comments, Discord, or any of that which may be more supportive of sexist or hateful or distasteful shit posting... that's clearly part of what makes TPU unique in the 2020's it seems. Some don't appreciate it, many do.

Maybe you're right, and there's time to do changes, but maybe its not JUST moderation that changes, maybe some of you need to change your perspective and try to be better yourselves, maybe its a mix of both staff/mod and community changes? Maybe its not us that need to leave? While I'd hate to see someone leave over something like this, if you're not a fit for TPU, and we're not a fit for you, then don't fight it if you're unwilling to be better, but don't persist in making TPU worse for your own personal entertainment or gain. This is a place to help folks, build them up, and have a good time doing it. We allow what I consider is a fair amount of BS and joking here, but if you cross the line and get on our radar, expect points. If you need a dirtier, more inappropriate, and offensive community, then by all means go find one, there's tens of thousands of options out there.

Otherwise, we should all continually strive to improve, do better, be better and all row in the same direction of making TPU the best damn community on the Internet. Resistance is futile, clearly, you've been coming back since 2005, and I hope you'll stick around.

The mod team doesn't have to issue a warning/lock thread/ban for every silly remark, stupid GIF, or troll post. That's what the LQ is for - as you suggested. You can just delete posts without further action. You don’t have to giveaway points for every tiny infraction.

Oh if we only did any of that to a fraction of the scope you're claiming we are, we'd probably see a lot more hate here, lol. People come up with some wild claims and stories about us and horrible we are, these are pretty relaxed TBH. Thank you.

Maybe I'm more familiar to these public challenge topics talking about how much stuff we miss and how big of failures we are in that respect. Are we getting that good now? We're overbearing, omnipresent, AND horrible? Maybe we've been upgraded...

Well gotta say there are too many ways to moderate in TPU, mods can do these:
1.Edit posts
2.Delete posts
3.LQing posts
4.Reply Ban
5.Give Infraction points

For the sake of consistency in moderating, I think that 1.Editting and 2.Deleting posts should not be used at all.

So what about the spam posts, porn/racist/sexist/offtopic/extremelyoffensive posts, malicious links, etc. that occur? Those all should just persist? On a tech forum? Make it make sense please, I believe we will have to reach an impasse on this.

You know how much garbage would still exist here that is wholly not appropriate if we never edited or deleted anything? Just so you can see the original flow of a topic no matter how inappropriate? Not so sure the trade-off is really worth it TBH.

Some things don't fit here and need to be removed. Sorry if that bothers you.

I haven't seen one derailed thread got cleaned, rather they are all locked.

Editing and Deleting posts are never fair, as they can hide evidences of users wrong-doing (or not). Let say some mods can either edit your post or just straght up give out infractions depending on their moods.

I never really viewed myself as evil, horrible, and super moody...interesting perspective and claims of us you make. I'm sorry you question our integrity so effortlessly, but not so sure this is a one-sided issue. We don't have hidden agendas, tin-foil hat conspiracies against TPU members or any of that, I assure you.

Don't just take my word for it, if there's ever a challenge of that, please contact super mods and/or even W1z directly in DM. We can see what was deleted, edited, changed, etc. W1z can see everything. Oftentimes if something is deleted, we also try to notify the poster of such. It might not be on your radar since it wasn't your post, but that really isn't your business then, it is the poster's.




Again, I want to thank everyone for taking time to engage in this topic and provide their thoughts, feedback, opinions, etc. I also ask that everyone please take time to read the forum rules and guidelines (link in sig). Don't do what Regen did here, please DM us if you have a dispute, we are open to constructive conversations, and if you make a good case for an infraction, it will be reviewed.

Heck, DM us if you just want to have a conversation, we much prefer to be around as members and not have to moderate topics or toss out points (contrary to some claims made prior), its much more fun to be a member here with you all. But, if you cross a line, and break the rules we're expected to uphold, we will act once its on our radar. If you see something, don't engage, report it and move on, get involved and you get on our radar too.

At the end of the day, contact W1z as the site admin, he ultimately holds us accountable for how we represent TPU in the community. Fortunately since we do this for free, he can't dock our pay! But we love what we do here, its a tough, thankless, underappreciated role...but seeing the bigger picture and aiming for the greater good of TPU still makes it worth it. This entire community is worth it, haters included.

 

[Outback Bronze]

Ai could replace mods

Nah, no way mate. AI won't be able to say "Pigs Ass"

We have healthy disagreements all the time. And, well I don't agree that having a civil disagreement is inherently childish, that's how we learn and grow

This is the main reason why I tend to let threads go when there is a disagreement. It makes for a much more interesting thread. I often adore it and we do learn a lot, just as long as the name calling gets trampled on.

 

[R-T-B]

Yeah was gonna say: it's all fun and games until the mods can't delete the porn spam because "evidence."

 

[nguyen]

So what about the spam posts, porn/racist/sexist/offtopic/extremelyoffensive posts, malicious links, etc. that occur? Those all should just persist? On a tech forum? Make it make sense please, I believe we will have to reach an impasse on this.

You know how much garbage would still exist here that is wholly not appropriate if we never edited or deleted anything? Just so you can see the original flow of a topic no matter how inappropriate? Not so sure the trade-off is really worth it TBH.

Some things don't fit here and need to be removed. Sorry if that bothers you.




I never really viewed myself as evil, horrible, and super moody...interesting perspective and claims of us you make. I'm sorry you question our integrity so effortlessly, but not so sure this is a one-sided issue. We don't have hidden agendas, tin-foil hat conspiracies against TPU members or any of that, I assure you.

Don't just take my word for it, if there's ever a challenge of that, please contact super mods and/or even W1z directly in DM. We can see what was deleted, edited, changed, etc. W1z can see everything. Oftentimes if something is deleted, we also try to notify the poster of such. It might not be on your radar since it wasn't your post, but that really isn't your business then, it is the poster's.

Spam threads getting deleted is necessary, I agree

As for spam porn/racist/sexist/offtopic/extremelyoffensive posts, getting LQing is enough to deter people from seeing the content anyways. Is TPU some sort of PG13 website that everything that is slightly offensive get automatically deleted?

When a post already got deleted, can other mods chime in a say "nah, it's fine"? so a Mod can just go around deleting posts without getting peer-reviewed? Yes DMing W1zzard is an option, but what for anyways, I would rather W1zzard spent time on reviewing new stuff.

 

[natr0n]

There is this one guy(horses ass) who is on me personally because of my beliefs. Even removing my own profile posts a few times. I guess that shit it normal now.

 

[Palindrome]

My experience with TPU moderation has been nothing but positive, I've been on a few other forums going back a few years, and I've (unfortunately) had more than my fair share of time on Discord and Twitter, where moderation is practically nonexistant. Since I mainly lurk on TPU, logged out (at work ); I don't post much, but read a fair bit. In the cases where I see threads closed, more often than not, I'm somewhat pleasantly surprised that a) someone is even there to moderate, b) that someone cares to moderate something rather than just letting it happen and dealing with the fallout later and c) that at least from what I can see, people don't go opening a new thread, carrying on their fighting from before while now also talking shit about the moderators. All things I've seen plenty of times on other forums and in "civilized" cords

It would be/is very easy to simply say "everyone online is so sensitive nowadays" and feel justified in that you're not one of the "softies", but the pub analogy from the54thvoid is probably the best way I've seen it explained. On the surface, we're all just pixels on a screen and keyboard warriors to various extents, but in reality we're all humans (I hope ) with hopelessly complex backstories that cause us to (re)act in different ways to different things.

tldr; thx mod team, this is one of the better places as far as moderation goes imo

 

[Toothless]

I've learned that if something seems fishy, just use the report button and let them do their job. Trust the process and let them enforce the rules.

Learned from my two warnings.

 

[Calenhad]

As for spam porn/racist/sexist/offtopic/extremelyoffensive posts, getting LQing is enough to deter people from seeing the content anyways. Is TPU some sort of PG13 website that everything that is slightly offensive get automatically deleted?

How about not posting that juvenile junk in the first place? There are rules in every forum I know of, you are not allowed to post whatever you like. Nor do you have the right to post whatever you want.

I believe there are other places on the internet that thrive on that kind of posts. So stop treating TPU like one maybe? But if you want to keep on FAFO'ing, who am I to stop you? (That would be the moderators task)

 

[PLAfiller]

Wow 5 pages since yesterday, can't say I didn't see it coming. I found this forum for the reviews like over a decade ago. If I have to say something about "too strict" that is tech-related that would concern piracy. I mean, there's not even a discussion on the matter. It's not like someone's asking how to crack a game nor I am asking to have this one the forum....and I've never seen a thread "Building rig for torrents", yet the very notion of it, and there is always someone to get their panties in a twist. Providing TPU has an ad for volume license Windows keys @€3...I find that hypocritical. All I am saying is discussion not active, deliberate actions, just talk it out from time to time. Judge me all you want, but it's a thing out there, like it or not.

 

[Toothless]

Wow 5 pages since yesterday, can't say I didn't see it coming. I found this forum for the reviews like over a decade ago. If I have to say something about "too strict" that is tech-related that would concern piracy. I mean, there's not even a discussion on the matter. It's not like someone's asking how to crack a game nor I am asking to have this one the forum....and I've never seen a thread "Building rig for torrents", yet the very notion of it, and there is always someone to get their panties in a twist. Providing TPU has an ad for volume license Windows keys @€3...I find that hypocritical. All I am saying is discussion not active, deliberate actions, just talk it out from time to time. Judge me all you want, but it's a thing out there, like it or not.

I think it's the "we can't trust if the torrents are pirated or not" and staying away from possible legal troubles.

 

[PLAfiller]

..... and staying away from possible legal troubles.

That really could be it, I don't own a business, so I haven't thought about the legal side of things. I was thinking more in the lines of a blog post conversation, like the language they use in articles, but anyhow I guess it's better left alone.