Radeon X850 Pro vs. FireGL V7100

[xtreger]

Hi all! I'm a noob to the world of GPU specs and all, but definitely want to learn. I'm trying to build a retro PC with Win98/WinXP in mind, and I'm trying to select between two graphics cards - X850 Pro and FireGL v7100. Problem is, I can't decide based on the specs - X850 Pro is better in some aspects (like clock speed), while v7100 is better in others (like pixel pipelines). I've also seen that v7100 uses the same chip as X800 XT.

I'd be really grateful if you guys could help me out, or explain why one or the other gfx card is the better choice. If it helps, the benchmarks that I have in mind are 3dmark 2001 SE score and Half Life 2: Episode 2 (i.e. Source engine 2007) performance. Also if anyone has already used V7100 for benchmarking, etc., please let me know.

Thanks in advance

 

[pavle]

Just use the FireGL, I haven't had it myself, but I did have X800Pro (12) and X800XT (16-pipelines) and 16-pipes really makes a difference with AA and AF.

 

[xtreger]

Just use the FireGL, I haven't had it myself, but I did have X800Pro (12) and X800XT (16-pipelines) and 16-pipes really makes a difference with AA and AF.

Thanks for the response! So generally speaking, even outside of AA and AF, 33% more pipelines (16 vs. 12) will trump clock speed?

 

[pavle]

Thanks for the response! So generally speaking, even outside of AA and AF, 33% more pipelines (16 vs. 12) will trump clock speed?

Of course, especially in OpenGL titles. I don't know why, but that X800Pro was kinda weak in OpenGL titles (Doom3 etc.). Besides - it's the same chip (X800 Pro and XT), just one quarter is disabled to get the Pro - and the clock difference is not that big, a few MHz. R423 is also basically the same as R480.

 

[68Olds]

Some of the X850 Pro VIVO cards were software cut to 12 pipes & could be soft-mod unlocked to 16. Others could not be unlocked because the 4 pipes were laser cut. I remember it was quite the lottery to see if you got a good one or not.

 

[xtreger]

Some of the X850 Pro VIVO cards were software cut to 12 pipes & could be soft-mod unlocked to 16. Others could not be unlocked because the 4 pipes were laser cut. I remember it was quite the lottery to see if you got a good one or not.

I do have access to the X850 Pro to try before buying. Is there any way for me to check whether it can be unlocked? Any software that I can use? I have both Win98 and WinXP on my system.

 

[rockit00]

You're in luck! There is a whole thread here on TPU about the X800/X850 Pro XT and XTPE modding. This is where I learned to recognize and mod the different X800 variants. Ahh the Good ol' Days!

 

[68Olds]

I do have access to the X850 Pro to try before buying. Is there any way for me to check whether it can be unlocked? Any software that I can use? I have both Win98 and WinXP on my system.

You're in luck! There is a whole thread here on TPU about the X800/X850 Pro XT and XTPE modding. This is where I learned to recognize and mod the different X800 variants. Ahh the Good ol' Days!

Yup, I will look around for the threads & post links if I can find them.

 

[xtreger]

You're in luck! There is a whole thread here on TPU about the X800/X850 Pro XT and XTPE modding. This is where I learned to recognize and mod the different X800 variants. Ahh the Good ol' Days!

Good ol days for sure! So I had a look at a couple of threads (like this). I went to ATI tool and got this stuff:
CONFIG_DIE_FUSES 0xFFFFBFFF
CONFIG_SUBSTRATE_FUSES 0xFFFFFF9E
CONFIG_ROM_FUSES 0x861
GB_PIPE_SELECT 0x12B84

From what I read in the threads, looks like the card I have has laser etching to lock pipelines at 12. Tough luck for me. If it's okay for me to ask, do you know of any workaround for laser etching so that I can still unlock 16 pipelines?

 

[68Olds]

That was quick. I don't remember any work around of the pipes were laser cut.

I still have my AGP X850 Pro VIVO with laser cut pipes & never got it to 16 pipes. Believe me when I say, I tried! lol

 

[xtreger]

That was quick. I don't remember any work around of the pipes were laser cut.

I still have my AGP X850 Pro VIVO with laser cut pipes & never got it to 16 pipes. Believe me when I say, I tried! lol

I see. In that case I can go for FireGL and overclock it. I know ATITool can do that in WinXP. I'm not sure if there's a way to overclock ATI cards in Win98 though..

 

[rockit00]

I had about a half dozen of the X850 Pro models. They were all unlockable. I would unlock them and add an Arctic Cooling ATI Silencer 4 which would convert them to the X850 XTPE. Then I'd use ATiTool to test them. Then I'd sell them on ebay. It was a great way to get your bang for the buck with those X800 variants. I never did try the Fire GL cards but I think you could add the unified shaders somehow and use them for gaming.

 

[xtreger]

I had about a half dozen of the X850 Pro models. They were all unlockable. I would unlock them and add an Arctic Cooling ATI Silencer 4 which would convert them to the X850 XTPE. Then I'd use ATiTool to test them. Then I'd sell them on ebay. It was a great way to get your bang for the buck with those X800 variants. I never did try the Fire GL cards but I think you could add the unified shaders somehow and use them for gaming.

So based on what I wrote in post #9 above, do you think that the X850 model that I have can be unlocked? If possible, I'd really like to do that. Asking since you have experience in this stuff.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

I see. In that case I can go for FireGL and overclock it. I know ATITool can do that in WinXP. I'm not sure if there's a way to overclock ATI cards in Win98 though..

With cards that I couldn't find OC software for, Just modify and flash the bios for some new clocks. Most cards where good for an easy 50mhz without issues. Just depends on the cooling. In reality, a little water block action carries most cards pretty far, even if we're talking modern GPUs. So retro-fit a waterblock and keep good air flow on the memory and you'll probably get better clocks that way. my 2 pennies.

 

[rockit00]

I was looking around in the old X800 laser etched threads yesterday and I did see a couple of individuals mention soldering a tiny resistor to the laser etched area or using conductive ink to unlock the extra pipes. On some X800 laser cut variants the extra pipelines were defective. So even if soldered or worked around the card wouldn't perform well. Remember this back in 2005-2006 and I was lucky to get several X850 Pro VIVO reference cards from the ATI website. I didn't have to fool around with conductive pens and resistors. This was around the time that AMD acquired ATI.

 

[lemonadesoda]

This looks like a good thread!

X850XT --> Fire GL V7100 or X3.

hello! I have Sapphire X850XT 256M (R480) & ATI X800XL 256M (R430) I want moded it to Fire GL V7100 or X3. Possible this do? But what should I do next....? Should I flash a BIOS for this card? Which one should I use?.... thanks if anyone can help me...

www.techpowerup.com

Thanks indeed to wizzard for uploading the full vB thread archive into xenforo

 

[68Olds]

On some X800 laser cut variants the extra pipelines were defective.

I had forgotten about that, but that's absolutely correct.

For Win98SE ATI overclocking, did the CCC have overclocking built in to it? I think it might have.

 

[rockit00]

I remember that CCC, ATiTool, and EXPERTool functions would vary on different Windows versions but I don't remember the specifics. I do remember that Gainward had a falling out with AMD back in 2009 and discontinued support of EXPERTool at v4.2! Yes it became a gamble when the good unlockable X800/X850 variants dried up and the ones that were defective on DIE showed up on the market. You win some you loose some when you play the silicon lottery.

 

[xtreger]

I remember that CCC, ATiTool, and EXPERTool functions would vary on different Windows versions but I don't remember the specifics. I do remember that Gainward had a falling out with AMD back in 2009 and discontinued support of EXPERTool at v4.2! Yes it became a gamble when the good unlockable X800/X850 variants dried up and the ones that were defective on DIE showed up on the market. You win some you loose some when you play the silicon lottery.

Thanks, I will check out these tools and see how they are.

With cards that I couldn't find OC software for, Just modify and flash the bios for some new clocks. Most cards where good for an easy 50mhz without issues. Just depends on the cooling. In reality, a little water block action carries most cards pretty far, even if we're talking modern GPUs. So retro-fit a waterblock and keep good air flow on the memory and you'll probably get better clocks that way. my 2 pennies.

Thank you! Two questions:
1. I think some memory and core clock speed ranges aren't good for the gfx card. How do I properly decide safe clock speeds? I did use the ATITool and tried to use "Find max core" and "Find max mem" options, but beyond a certain point, it just hangs. Now if there were just one clock speed to adjust (e.g. core clock), then I'd know that the point at which it hangs is the max. But I'm not sure what's a good rule of thumb to get both clock speed thresholds
2. If I do get the safe clock speed range, how do I figure out which BIOS will give me that, and is there any website where I can find those?

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Thanks, I will check out these tools and see how they are.


Thank you! Two questions:
1. I think some memory and core clock speed ranges aren't good for the gfx card. How do I properly decide safe clock speeds? I did use the ATITool and tried to use "Find max core" and "Find max mem" options, but beyond a certain point, it just hangs. Now if there were just one clock speed to adjust (e.g. core clock), then I'd know that the point at which it hangs is the max. But I'm not sure what's a good rule of thumb to get both clock speed thresholds
2. If I do get the safe clock speed range, how do I figure out which BIOS will give me that, and is there any website where I can find those?

You modify the existing bios. Saving the original, make a copy to modify.

I would say "safely" increasing 10mhz at a time.

ATI tray tools is your first option honestly. Modifying a bios is when the software doesn't work.

There is also ATI OV program as well. This software is extremely difficult to find. This would help increase clock speed. At the cost of heat.

You're on the website that may have a bios for the card already. Look no further. But since you already would have a bios to work with that comes on the card, you don't really need another one.

OC rule of thumb.
A little at a time, testing along the way.