Some serious questions about battery banks

[GigaHurtOC]

Like most people, I have a few devices, such as mobile, ipad and other devices that can be charged via USB PD

I have a Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra, which can be charged at 45 watts with their charger, otherwise, you can charge it at a maximum of 25W.

I do a fair bit of travelling, hence I have 3 power banks (4 if you include the battery pack that I have in case I get a flat battery, and need to jump-start my car).

The battery banks I have are as follows:


1. Cygnett charge up Pro 25K mAh laptop power bank (92.5 wH)

2. Cygnett Chargeup Reserve 2nd generation 20K (74wH)

3. Sprout 15,000 mAh power bank pro (55.5Wh)

In total, this gives me 60,000 mAh


The specifications of my 3 power banks are as follows:

Cygnett chargeup Pro 25K mAh laptopower bank:

Output

USB-C Output 1 - 5.0V-3.0A (15.0W), 9.0V-3.0A (27.0W), 12.0V-3.0A (36.0W), 15.0V-3.0A (45.0W), 20.0V-5.0A (100.0W)

USB-C Output 2 - 5.0V-3.0A (15.0W), 9.0V-2.0A (18.0W), 12.0V 1.5A (18.0W)

USB-A Output 1 - 5.0V-3.0A (15.0W), 9.0V-2.0A (18.0W), 12.0V 1.5A (18.0W)
Total Output: 118W

Input

USB-C Input 1 - 5.0V-3.0A (15.0W), 9.0V-3.0A (27.0W), 12.0V-3.0A (36.0W), 15.0V-3.0A (45.0W), 20.0V-3.25A
(65.0W Max)


Cygnett Chargeup Reserve 2nd generation 20K:

Input/Output
Lithium Battery: 20,000mAh/74Wh,

USB-C Output 1: 5.0V-3.0A (15.0W), 9.0V-3.0A (27.0W), 12.0V-2.5A m (30.0W), 15.0V-2.0A (30.0W), 20.0V 1.5A (30.0W Max)

USB-C Output 2: 5.0V-3.0A (15.0W Max)
2
USB-A Output 3: 5.0V-3.0A (15.0W), 9.0V-2.0A (18.0W), 12.0V 1.5A (18W Max)

USB-C Input 1: 5.0V-3.0A (15.0W), 9.0V-3.0A (27.0W), 12.0V 2.5A (30.0W), 15.0V-2.0A (30.0W), 20.0V 1.5A (30.0W Max)
Total Output: 30.0W Max


Sprout 15,000 mAh power bank pro

Model: SPBC15000BBK

Input (Type-C PD): 5V 3A,9V-3A, 12V-2.5A, 15V 2A,20V 1.5A

Output 1(USB-C): 5V=3A

4.3V 2.4A 10.34W

Output 2 (Type-C PD): 5V-3A,9V-3A, 12V-2.5A, 15V 2A,20V 1.5A


Output 3 (USB-A) (QC 3.0): 5V 3A,9V-2A, 12V=1.5A


Now, here comes the part that I need help with!

Although I'm aware that you can buy a small device called a digital USB wattage reader that gives you a readout of Volts, Amps and Watts, I've been using various apps and tools on my s22 ultra for my results. I have run these tests with 2 seperate USB-C --> USB-C cables. Both yield similar results.

So, the 25,000 mAh power bank should be able to charge my s22 ultra at 25 W, but the best I can get is:

USB-C Output 1: 4.25V 3A 18W
USB-C Output 2: 4.25V 2A 7W
USB-A Output: : 4.14V 1A 4W

Why am I only getting a maximum of 18W on a USB-C output that can deliver 100W? Shouldn't I be getting at least 25W or more?

The 20,000 mAh power bank outputs a maximum of 30W on USB-C Output 1, 15W on the 2nd USB-C Output, and 18W via USB-A Output.
I tried both cables with all 3 ports and got:

USB-C Output 1: 4.3V 3.6A 15W
USB-C Output 2: 4.2V 1.5A 15W
USB-A Output: 4.2V 1.5A 7W

Whilst about 2 years older, this battery bank should be able to reach 25W output whilst charging my phone. Why does it max out at 15W?

Finally, the 15,000 mAh battery bank.
I could not find any wattage details for this product, but as the Volt and Amp maximums on the outputs are similar, (for example), one USB-C Output can charge at 15V, so I'm guessing that I should be doing a LOT better:

The best values I got were as follows:

USB-C Output 1: 4.3V 2.4A 10.3W
USB-C Output 2: 4.3V 3A 15W
USB-A Output: 4.3V 1.6A 7W


I would really love to know the following:

1. s22u can charge at 25W, but with the special Samsung charger, you can charge it at 45 watts. Why am I only getting 15-18W max instead of 25W or more?
Is it the cable, the power bank? my phone?

2. Since there's settings on the 25K mAh bank that can charge a device/s at 36, 45 and 100W, what devices make use of these levels of power delivery?

3. Could it be, that because there's no charging settings between 18W and 27W, it just defaults to 18W? Or should I (using the 25K mAh power bank as an example),
be able to use USB-C Output 1 at 9V 3A 27W and get a 25W charge?

4. Is this how it works? As 25W is the maximum unless you buy the charger, does this mean that 9V 3A 27W automatically defaults to 5V 3A 15W ?


5. Are there any other ways that I can check the state of my power banks? The 25,000 mAh is basically brand new.

6. Why can't I charge my s22 u at 45W using my power bank?

7. I know this sounds like a dumb question, but what's the point in advertising the capability of charging at 100W, 45W, 36W and so on if it never actually works?

8.. What is it about the 45W Samsung charger that allows for 45W PD?

9. Is it something in the wall plug? Do different USB-C --> USB-C cables have different Amps or able to carry a stronger current than other cables?

10. Can I use any of my power banks to charge my phone or Ipad at 25W or higher?

I would really like to figure this out.

Thanks in advance!

I ask this because I am interested in purchasing a 45 watt charger

 

[R-T-B]

I think your biggest mistake is relying on software/apps for your data. They are almost never acurate.

 

[GigaHurtOC]

What do you reccomend that I do?
Are you able to answer any of my questions?

Cheers.

 

[Imouto]

There are little USB headers that tell you all kinds of info about a USB connection. Search for "USB-C meter" in sites like Aliexpress and such. Nearly all of them can keep track of the energy. Just make sure it's compatible with the PD protocol and supports the max current you are trying to pull.

As for the power used to charge your phone, it's almost never the maximum. When the battery is mostly discharged you can get pretty close to the maximum rating, halfway it decreases and when it's nearly full the power drops quite a lot.

 

[GigaHurtOC]

I've narrowed everything down to one question.

You can buy the 45W Samsung travel adapter that will give you 45W on s22 ultra.

Link:

45W Power Adapter Black Black | Samsung Australia

45W Power Adapter Black (EP-T4510XBEGAU) - See the benefits and full features of this product. Learn more and find the best Mobile Accessories for you at Samsung Australia.

www.samsung.com

But, the only thing I need to know is that could I purchase a 5A USB-C cable with 100W Max PD?

https://p-y3-www-amazon-com-au-kalias.amazon.com.au/INIU-Charger-Braided-Samsung-MacBook/dp/B08J2HXYPH

In other words, what makes it charge at 45W, is it the wall charger, or the cable?

Or is it both?

I would like to charge off a power bank!

Cheers

 

[joemama]

what makes it charge at 45W, is it the wall charger, or the cable?

It should be the charger, both the charger and smartphone control the charging voltages and amps

 

[GigaHurtOC]

It should be the charger, both the charger and smartphone control the charging voltages and amps

So the actual wall charger you mean...

 

[ty_ger]

The charger and the phone are both part of the equation. The charger has to be able to output the power and communicate effectively with the phone. And the phone needs to be able to use that much power at that rate.
"What makes it charge at 45 watts?" Are you sure that it does? Just because it can output up to 45 watts doesn't mean that your phone ever will use that much. The charge rate of the phone's battery is important. Your phone should never try to charge its battery faster than the battery's chemistry safely allows.
I would suggest that you buy a USB power meter to make some measurements so that you can make real comparisons instead of using advertised maximum theoretical values.

 

[Imouto]

In other words, what makes it charge at 45W, is it the wall charger, or the cable?

Or is it both?

I would like to charge off a power bank!

It's the three. The PD protocol makes the devices talk to each other. So the charger/bank says what it can deliver, the phone what it can take and depending on the quality of the cable the actual power delivered. If the cable is bad, too long or both there will be a voltage drop that the protocol will always assume as a conductor that is too thin. If there's a voltage drop during charge the same because it means it overheated.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

The charger and the phone are both part of the equation. The charger has to be able to output the power and communicate effectively with the phone. And the phone needs to be able to use that much power at that rate.
"What makes it charge at 45 watts?" Are you sure that it does? Just because it can output up to 45 watts doesn't mean that your phone ever will use that much. The charge rate of the phone's battery is important. Your phone should never try to charge its battery faster than the battery's chemistry safely allows.
I would suggest that you buy a USB power meter to make some measurements so that you can make real comparisons instead of using advertised maximum theoretical values.

Dont forget temperature! The phone battery may very well be able to take a 45 watt charge....at 15 degrees C. At 25, its may be limited to 30w, and the higher it goes, the lower it goes.

My motorola will only pull 68w from its charger until 28c, then it drops from 6 amps to 4, then to 2 at 30c, then 1 amp over 32c.

It's the three. The PD protocol makes the devices talk to each other. So the charger/bank says what it can deliver, the phone what it can take and depending on the quality of the cable the actual power delivered. If the cable is bad, too long or both there will be a voltage drop that the protocol will always assume as a conductor that is too thin. If there's a voltage drop during charge the same because it means it overheated.

Voltages of the carger are also important. The 45w samsung charger may do 45w, but at 19v 2.2a. At 9v, it may only put out 3 amp. This is very common.

What voltages does the samsung phone support?

 

[Wirko]

While I don't have a Samsung phone, I think I found a clue, if not the answer, to your questions. It's called "PPS", and it's an optional part of the USB PD 3.0 standard. Your phone supports PD 3.0 and needs PPS for 45 W charging, but your power banks don't supports PPS. Maybe you can find an app that can confirm that and give you detailed info on the charging mode.

What is Samsung Super Fast Charging and how fast is it?

Samsung's Super Fast Charging offers up to 45W of charging power, but you can't expect the same performance on every device.

www.androidauthority.com

In fact, Samsung’s Super Fast Charging is based on the newer USB PD Programmable Power Supply (PPS) standard. In a nutshell, PPS enables your device to communicate and negotiate the optimal power output with the adapter in real-time. The only downside is that you need to use an adapter with USB PD PPS support — a standard USB PD charger will be capped at 18W.

Power Delivery Origin and Specification | GraniteRiverLabs

Type-C interface has gradually become the mainstream choice, and most products now support PD. In these products, the Configuration Channel (CC) pin is used for transmitting PD communication messages and protocols and supplying power through the VBUS pin.

www.graniteriverlabs.com

The power supply specification for USB PD 3.0 is as follows (see table 6), and an optional PPS (Programmable Power Supply) function is added. In PPS mode, the voltage can be adjusted by 20 mV/step, and the voltage range is extended to 3.3 V to 21 V. This technology can output large currents at lower voltages and greatly improves charging efficiency.
To distinguish the new PPS mode in PD3.0 from the existing PD2.0 mode, PDO can be divided into according to the following rules:

• Fixed Supply PDO (usually called Fixed PDO) refers to fixed voltage output mode.
• Augmented PDO (usually called APDO) means that the output voltage can adjust within a certain range under PPS mode.

 

[silentbogo]

Why am I only getting a maximum of 18W on a USB-C output that can deliver 100W?

1) The answer is always "It's Samsung". They don't use standard PD or QC profiles for fastest charging mode, hence you can only get 45W only from a Samsung-branded charger.
2) Just because your power bank supports 100W output doesn't mean that it will do anything below. It needs your phone to tell it "Hey, I need 2.25A@20V" or something like that. Otherwise your brick and s22 will negotiate the highest profile they can agree on(which is 18W or 22.5W in your cases).

 

[Eskimonster]

Everything in this thread never has agitated one braincell in me. But i wanna shout out my ulephone armour is still working like a charm after 7 years of abuse. And that makes me wonder if quality of batteries is getting worse year by year.

 

[Frick]

Everything in this thread never has agitated one braincell in me. But i wanna shout out my ulephone armour is still working like a charm after 7 years of abuse. And that makes me wonder if quality of batteries is getting worse year by year.

Off topic, but it depends on what you mean with "working like a charm", and the biggest difference between how long batteries last is how people are using them. I would say close to everyone who claims they don't see any degradation after several years also say things like "of course I only use it for texts and calls, it's a phone".

 

[Eskimonster]

Off topic, but it depends on what you mean with "working like a charm", and the biggest difference between how long batteries last is how people are using them. I would say close to everyone who claims they don't see any degradation after several years also say things like "of course I only use it for texts and calls, it's a phone".

Thx for replying to my rant, i use my phone for obvious reasons, and watch 1-2h youtube on it when i go to sleep. And i use it for playing music acationally on work (youtube), maybe like 1h a day distributed over the 7 years. I recharge it once every second day.(to 80% ish) edited i think my batt is 5500 mv.

 

[dgianstefani]

"up to" 45 W.

So that's at optimal conditions, typically when the battery is in a lower state of charge, and depending on temperature too.

Closer to 100% it will charge more slowly as resistances increase.

Don't charge above 85% or allow devices to go below 15%.

1) The answer is always "It's Samsung". They don't use standard PD or QC profiles for fastest charging mode, hence you can only get 45W only from a Samsung-branded charger.
2) Just because your power bank supports 100W output doesn't mean that it will do anything below. It needs your phone to tell it "Hey, I need 2.25A@20V" or something like that. Otherwise your brick and s22 will negotiate the highest profile they can agree on(which is 18W or 22.5W in your cases).

Quite a few aftermarket chargers support the PPS power standard to charge Samsung devices fast.

My Anker Prime has no issues.

 

[silentbogo]

Quite a few aftermarket chargers support the PPS power standard to charge Samsung devices fast.

There are some power banks that can do it as well, but to be honest, you have to look specifically for a third-party charger or power bank that supports it (and overabundance of models and lack of proper reviews makes it even harder). The majority of cheap power banks top out at QC3.0 + PD 2.0.
Plus "fast" is a relative term. For example, for me 22.5W is plenty fast for a phone, but some people want that "maximum" claimed on the box for no particular reason.
Just recently one of my friends swapped TWO 65W Xiaomi chargers just because they stopped delivering promised 65W PD. Didn't listen to my arguments about faulty cables and dirty Type-C ports. Heck, dude has a generator at work, a bunch of power banks around the workshop, a battery backup at home, and more USB ports in a car than you know what to do with... And he's still worried that he won't be able to charge his phone in 30min even though the battery usually lasts him 2 days. And I'm simply happy that my old phone still charges to 100% while I'm reading news reels and drinking my morning coffee. Beyond that - super-fast charging is a non-issue.

P.S. And I think I found the OP's culprit. Even if either of his power banks supports PPS, it still needs a Type-C cable that can handle 5A. In other words - a proper 100W cable.

Although I'm aware that you can buy a small device called a digital USB wattage reader that gives you a readout of Volts, Amps and Watts, I've been using various apps and tools on my s22 ultra for my results. I have run these tests with 2 seperate USB-C --> USB-C cables. Both yield similar results.

Never trust software.
Just get one of these. It works like a charm and unlike older testers - does not interfere with QC/PD.

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-kws%2525252d2301c.html

I have 2 of them, and while it's not the best $5 I ever spent, it's definitely one of the most useful and used $5 I ever spent.

And if it still shows only 5V on all of your devices - it's probably time to clean up that Type-C port (e.g. it's a sign that your phone can't negotiate anything besides 5V).