PC Build for customer arrived damage

[MxPhenom 216]

Hey folks, I have been a system building for damn near 15 years with mostly word of mouth builds and have shipped several with no issues until recently. Basically just seeking some advice here. Last week I built one for my cousins' father and it arrived in rough shape. The CPU tower cooler was bent up. It was tilting about 30 degrees towards the back of the case with the fan having been unclipped and just hanging around. He was able to straighten out the cooler as all the mounting and retention was still good and tight, and remount the fan. He was able to boot and go through the Windows OOBE and restarted after some Windows updates and it wouldnt post anymore. Stuck there with the red LED on the CPU fault part of the LED indicators.

I told him I can make a return label to send it back, but then he thinks itll just be a never ending loop of shipping it and then UPS breaking shit again. But I have discovered a new method of packing a system that I would use instead when I fix it and send it back. We did insure it for $3000 with UPS so we are going to file a claim.

Is there any other way to handle this better? He said if he didnt send it back he'd take it to geeksquad but id be concerned with what they would do to it to "fix" it.

 

[basco]

maybe a tech savvy forum user could help who is near your client ?
just a thought

 

[Macro Device]

Stuck there with the red LED on the CPU fault part of the LED indicators.

Sounds like this cooler is mounted way too tight. Try loosening. Otherwise yes, either find a mechanist nearby or sue the delivery company.

 

[Bill_Bright]

The CPU tower cooler was bent up. It was tilting about 30 degrees

How was this damage discovered? Did he open the computer case BEFORE plugging the computer in and notice it? Or did he connect power and attempt to boot, then when it failed to boot, opened the case and saw the damage?

My worry is, additional damage might have happened if power was applied before the damage was noticed.

Sadly, this was a lesson I learned about 25 years ago when I built and shipped a computer to my dad: Always remove the CPU cooler before shipping. Even if the truck driver is careful not to drop or "plop" the box on the porch, the computer could have sustained damage when the truck went over a big bump.

That's the problem with "tower" oriented cases and tall and heavy coolers. The cooler "hangs" off the vertically oriented motherboard, apply uneven pulling and pushing (twisting) forces on the motherboard. The taller the cooler, the stronger and more uneven those forces. Not good!

Even a small "bounce" could put some extreme forces on one or more of the cooler mounting points on the motherboard, and in turn, on one or more of the motherboard mounting points to the case. These excessive forces could result in some micro-fractures (or even visible fractures) on the motherboard at those points resulting in one or more open circuits.

I recommend shipping the cooler in a separate box with instructions on how to mount. Or, if there is enough space, wrap the cooler in bubble wrap and stuff it in the open cavity of the case AS LONG AS there is no risk of the heavy cooler putting too much stress on any installed expansion card, RAM, etc. If there is that risk, even a slight one, then play it safe and ship separately (with a small complimentary tube of TIM - thermal interface material) and instructions how to properly mount it.

This is not a problem with the old-style, horizontally oriented "desktop" case as then, the cooler sits on top of the horizonal motherboard with all the force being straight down on the motherboard and "evenly" distributed across the standoffs.

When transporting across town, I recommend ensuring the tower case will be laying flat in the horizontal ("desktop") orientation with the cooler "up" sitting on top of the motherboard. And if there is any chance the computer will be out of your sight/control at any point, play it safe. Remove the cooler and remount with a fresh, clean, new layer of TIM at the destination.

Even when lugging the computer from room to room, or outside to blast out heat-trapping dust, if you have a tall, heavy cooler, be extra careful not to "plop" the computer down too hard just to avoid those excessive, uneven forces on the motherboard.

I have heard of cases where the recipient received the computer and found the cooler at the bottom of the case, the CPU bracket bent, and CPU fan header pins bent. So I guess your cousins' father (your uncle?) was a bit lucky if the cooler will still attached.

Good luck getting UPS to cover. For future reference, for expensive items like this, if the box shows ANY damage upon delivery, take pictures BEFORE opening. Then take more pictures during opening as or if any internal damage to the box is discovered.

And FOR SURE, take pictures of any damage to the goods inside BEFORE attempting to repair it yourself. This is where I fear getting UPS to accept responsibility might be a problem for your cousin's father. When he attempted to fix it himself, he likely destroyed any evidence of damage caused during shipping.

 

[AleXXX666]

How was this damage discovered? Did he open the computer case BEFORE plugging the computer in and notice it? Or did he connect power and attempt to boot, then when it failed to boot, opened the case and saw the damage?

My worry is, additional damage might have happened if power was applied before the damage was noticed.

Sadly, this was a lesson I learned about 25 years ago when I built and shipped a computer to my dad: Always remove the CPU cooler before shipping. Even if the truck driver is careful not to drop or "plop" the box on the porch, the computer could have sustained damage when the truck went over a big bump.

That's the problem with "tower" oriented cases and tall and heavy coolers. The cooler "hangs" off the vertically oriented motherboard, apply uneven pulling and pushing (twisting) forces on the motherboard. The taller the cooler, the stronger and more uneven those forces. Not good!

Even a small "bounce" could put some extreme forces on one or more of the cooler mounting points on the motherboard, and in turn, on one or more of the motherboard mounting points to the case. These excessive forces could result in some micro-fractures (or even visible fractures) on the motherboard at those points resulting in one or more open circuits.

I recommend shipping the cooler in a separate box with instructions on how to mount. Or, if there is enough space, wrap the cooler in bubble wrap and stuff it in the open cavity of the case AS LONG AS there is no risk of the heavy cooler putting too much stress on any installed expansion card, RAM, etc. If there is that risk, even a slight one, then play it safe and ship separately (with a small complimentary tube of TIM - thermal interface material) and instructions how to properly mount it.

This is not a problem with the old-style, horizontally oriented "desktop" case as then, the cooler sits on top of the horizonal motherboard with all the force being straight down on the motherboard and "evenly" distributed across the standoffs.

When transporting across town, I recommend ensuring the tower case will be laying flat in the horizontal ("desktop") orientation with the cooler "up" sitting on top of the motherboard. And if there is any chance the computer will be out of your sight/control at any point, play it safe. Remove the cooler and remount with a fresh, clean, new layer of TIM at the destination.

Even when lugging the computer from room to room, or outside to blast out heat-trapping dust, if you have a tall, heavy cooler, be extra careful not to "plop" the computer down too hard just to avoid those excessive, uneven forces on the motherboard.

I have heard of cases where the recipient received the computer and found the cooler at the bottom of the case, the CPU bracket bent, and CPU fan header pins bent. So I guess your cousins' father (your uncle?) was a bit lucky if the cooler will still attached.

Good luck getting UPS to cover. For future reference, for expensive items like this, if the box shows ANY damage upon delivery, take pictures BEFORE opening. Then take more pictures during opening as or if any internal damage to the box is discovered.

And FOR SURE, take pictures of any damage to the goods inside BEFORE attempting to repair it yourself. This is where I fear getting UPS to accept responsibility might be a problem for your cousin's father. When he attempted to fix it himself, he likely destroyed any evidence of damage caused during shipping.

so just tell "it was in such condition", LOL. F..k LOL, such company can't deliver "handle with care" stuff? Wtf

 

[Bill_Bright]

such company can't deliver "handle with care" stuff?

Again, the damage could have occurred due to a literal bump in the road, or due to a hard landing if by plane. You don't know. The damage could have occurred when the OP took the box to the UPS store.

Shipping companies are in a pickle because there absolutely are dishonest people out there who, through carelessness or whatever, try to blame the shipping company for damages they caused themselves. And sadly, while the shipping companies have insurance for these things, they have to pay for that insurance. And how do they do that? By increasing the fees we have to pay.

 

[bonehead123]

he'd take it to geeksquad but id be concerned with what they would do to it to "fix" it.

HAHAHAHA........ I would not let those tweenie-bot clowns try to fix the stink on a dog's pile of poo

Most of those clowns they hire for da squad are barely out of high school, and very few if any have actually built a pc from scratch, so how the hell can they be expected to disassemble one & figure out what is wrong & how to "fix" it....

My cousin took his rig there & a week later, they said it needed a new "VRM board" and "extensive" rewiring due to some signals not getting to & from where they were supposed to.... how the hell did they come to that conclusion is beyond me, but they quoted him $973 for the repairs....ummm N.O.....

My nephew was told after 3 weeks of delays & excuses & apologies that all his "rams" were fried & melted into their "sockets", as well as his wireless card that was defective, which did NOT exist on his mobo, and this work would cost ~$600....

So yes, he SHOULD be afraid, VERY AFRAID, of what they might do to it....

As for the shipping, definitely take pics & file a claim with the shipper, like, yesterday....but be advised that they will almost certainly deny it immediately.... which is when you tell them to escalate the claim to the next level and the next one and the next one until it gets approved, as well as start emailing & calling their customer service several times a day for 1-2 weeks non-stop....

 

[MxPhenom 216]

How was this damage discovered? Did he open the computer case BEFORE plugging the computer in and notice it? Or did he connect power and attempt to boot, then when it failed to boot, opened the case and saw the damage?

My worry is, additional damage might have happened if power was applied before the damage was noticed.

Sadly, this was a lesson I learned about 25 years ago when I built and shipped a computer to my dad: Always remove the CPU cooler before shipping. Even if the truck driver is careful not to drop or "plop" the box on the porch, the computer could have sustained damage when the truck went over a big bump.

That's the problem with "tower" oriented cases and tall and heavy coolers. The cooler "hangs" off the vertically oriented motherboard, apply uneven pulling and pushing (twisting) forces on the motherboard. The taller the cooler, the stronger and more uneven those forces. Not good!

Even a small "bounce" could put some extreme forces on one or more of the cooler mounting points on the motherboard, and in turn, on one or more of the motherboard mounting points to the case. These excessive forces could result in some micro-fractures (or even visible fractures) on the motherboard at those points resulting in one or more open circuits.

I recommend shipping the cooler in a separate box with instructions on how to mount. Or, if there is enough space, wrap the cooler in bubble wrap and stuff it in the open cavity of the case AS LONG AS there is no risk of the heavy cooler putting too much stress on any installed expansion card, RAM, etc. If there is that risk, even a slight one, then play it safe and ship separately (with a small complimentary tube of TIM - thermal interface material) and instructions how to properly mount it.

This is not a problem with the old-style, horizontally oriented "desktop" case as then, the cooler sits on top of the horizonal motherboard with all the force being straight down on the motherboard and "evenly" distributed across the standoffs.

When transporting across town, I recommend ensuring the tower case will be laying flat in the horizontal ("desktop") orientation with the cooler "up" sitting on top of the motherboard. And if there is any chance the computer will be out of your sight/control at any point, play it safe. Remove the cooler and remount with a fresh, clean, new layer of TIM at the destination.

Even when lugging the computer from room to room, or outside to blast out heat-trapping dust, if you have a tall, heavy cooler, be extra careful not to "plop" the computer down too hard just to avoid those excessive, uneven forces on the motherboard.

I have heard of cases where the recipient received the computer and found the cooler at the bottom of the case, the CPU bracket bent, and CPU fan header pins bent. So I guess your cousins' father (your uncle?) was a bit lucky if the cooler will still attached.

Good luck getting UPS to cover. For future reference, for expensive items like this, if the box shows ANY damage upon delivery, take pictures BEFORE opening. Then take more pictures during opening as or if any internal damage to the box is discovered.

And FOR SURE, take pictures of any damage to the goods inside BEFORE attempting to repair it yourself. This is where I fear getting UPS to accept responsibility might be a problem for your cousin's father. When he attempted to fix it himself, he likely destroyed any evidence of damage caused during shipping.

Yeah thats fair. It has a Deepcool AK500 tower cooler. I may just claim responsibility for the shipment issue and have him send it back and ill fix whatever needs to be done. I suspect I didnt package it well enough. I didnt think about how much of a beating these things could take during shipment. especially half way across the country and I only had packing foam on one side of the cooler. There was about 3 inch gap of unfilled space between the cooler and the rear fan and thats the direction the cooler bent too which in the end i think put stress on other parts of the board. I have shipped previous systems with even less packing material inside the system with no issues on arrival, but the coolers were a little smaller, but still 120mm heatsinks, just not quite as heavy and that's a misstep on my part.

I have now seen how other system builders like NZXT and others ship a system with a tower heatsink and they put foam blocks on all sides of the tower to keep it from moving at all under any kind of stress. Another thing is, i have seen people say to remove the cooler, but on systems like this I want it to get to the person without them having to do anything but power it on so that's kind of my goal here. Just need to account for that in the way i package it up. I was more worried about how massive the GPU is in this thing so I did al ot on the packaging part for that to not move at all.

But regarding your first part. He noticed it before powering up and I said he might be able to tweak the cooler back to straightened position and put the fan on and it might be okay so thats what he did. Booted it to get it set up and i guess it booted, since he was able to get through Windows OOBE and then he rebooted after some updates and it was dead after that. He does have a video of what it looked like before he did anything, and I have pictures of what it looked like before i shipped it.

 

[Bill_Bright]

But regarding your first part. He noticed it before powering up and I said he might be able to tweak the cooler back to straightened position

That's good. Must users would not bother to open up the case and inspect before powering up the first time. They tend to be too excited to get it going.

Yeah, the computer to my dad was the not first I shipped either. But it was the first tower with a 3rd market, taller cooler. The previous had OEM "downward" firing coolers and posed a smaller "hanging" force - or, maybe I was just lucky before. Not sure, but I learned my lesson.

Most of those clowns they hire for da squad are barely out of high school, and very few if any have actually built a pc from scratch

FTR, I was repairing TVs and stereos, right down to the component level, right out of high school - so that is not a factor. I have seen WAY TOO MANY posters on this and other sites claiming to be computer experts, or worse, "technicians" when all they have done is swap out a PSU or add a stick of RAM. It took me two years of formal classroom and on-the-job training and "over-the-shoulder" evaluations and certifications before I can actually call myself a certified electronics technician. And another year of advanced training and evals before becoming a certified master electronics tech.

Point is, its all relative.

But frankly, anyone who knows how to use a #2 Phillips screwdriver can assemble a computer! And its hardly difficult to install the OS - if you have a little patience and can follow prompts.

The problem with the Geek Squad is there are several of them in every larger town. Some are exceptional, others are exceptionally horrible. Even within the same store, some techs know what they are doing, others only know how to follow a checklist. And of course, they are there for everything they sell, not just computers so some may be appliance specialist, others cell phones, others whoknowswhat.

But the same can be said for independent repair shops too - though much of that, sadly is due in part to a total lack of integrity and honesty. And sadly, it is those who give the rest of us a bad name.

So just as it is wrong to suggest all "used cars salesmen" are out to rip you off, it is equally wrong to say all Geek Squad "techs" are clowns. So some homework is required. Ask around. You might actually have a good Geek Squad in your area.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

That's good. Must users would not bother to open up the case and inspect before powering up the first time. They tend to be too excited to get it going.

Yeah, the computer to my dad was the not first I shipped either. But it was the first tower with a 3rd market, taller cooler. The previous had OEM "downward" firing coolers and posed a smaller "hanging" force - or, maybe I was just lucky before. Not sure, but I learned my lesson.



FTR, I was repairing TVs and stereos, right down to the component level, right out of high school - so that is not a factor. I have seen WAY TOO MANY posters on this and other sites claiming to be computer experts, or worse, "technicians" when all they have done is swap out a PSU or add a stick of RAM. It took me two years of formal classroom and on-the-job training and "over-the-shoulder" evaluations and certifications before I can actually call myself a certified electronics technician. And another year of advanced training and evals before becoming a certified master electronics tech.

Point is, its all relative.

But frankly, anyone who knows how to use a #2 Phillips screwdriver can assemble a computer! And its hardly difficult to install the OS - if you have a little patience and can follow prompts.

The problem with the Geek Squad is there are several of them in every larger town. Some are exceptional, others are exceptionally horrible. Even within the same store, some techs know what they are doing, others only know how to follow a checklist. And of course, they are there for everything they sell, not just computers so some may be appliance specialist, others cell phones, others whoknowswhat.

But the same can be said for independent repair shops too - though much of that, sadly is due in part to a total lack of integrity and honesty. And sadly, it is those who give the rest of us a bad name.

So just as it is wrong to suggest all "used cars salesmen" are out to rip you off, it is equally wrong to say all Geek Squad "techs" are clowns. So some homework is required. Ask around. You might actually have a good Geek Squad in your area.

Well, I can't submit a claim on the package since we already had sent in because we thought hte package was lost. Had no update on the tracking for about 7 days, until the day it was at his local hub and was out for delivery. Case since has been closed, but i cant open another so Ill have to contact UPS tomorrow im sure.

In meantime im going to offer a return shipping label to get it back to me and see about getting it functional again. I suspect all that is needed is a CPU reseat and maybe a new cooler after it got all bent out of shape. And than package it up like I am expecting it to be yeeted off a cliff to get back to him

 

[Bill_Bright]

I suspect all that is needed is a CPU reseat and maybe a new cooler after it got all bent out of shape.

That is the part that bothers me. Coolers are very rugged devices. The heatsink fins may bend easily, but they can also be straightened easily. What else can go wrong? A fan blade can break. Or the mating surface where it mates with the CPU can get scratched. But, "all bent out of shape"? I can't picture that.

What I fear is the CPU socket and mounting bracket are what's really damaged. And that might result in needing to replace the motherboard. And sadly, such damage would not be covered by warranty.

 

[ty_ger]

Hopefully UPS claims go better than USPS. I was in a battle with USPS for 4 months over $600 before I am now finally supposedly going to get my money. Over something that was undeniable and obvious, they made it impossible and tedious. I think their strategy at USPS is to wear people down and try to get them to give up.
Good luck to you! Better start collecting and scanning all your build receipts, estimating and justifying your labor, and start collecting competing market data to justify the sale value.
At USPS, the way it works is that you turn the whole thing in to them, they lose or destroy it, you argue with them why they owe you money, and they finally pay you. Similarly, if you are going to file a UPS claim, I assume that they will want to cover the whole insured value (or nothing at all), and you should not start repairing it or expecting to reuse any parts yet, until the claim process is done and you find out how much of it they keep.

 

[MxPhenom 216]

That is the part that bothers me. Coolers are very rugged devices. The heatsink fins may bend easily, but they can also be straightened easily. What else can go wrong? A fan blade can break. Or the mating surface where it mates with the CPU can get scratched. But, "all bent out of shape"? I can't picture that.

What I fear is the CPU socket and mounting bracket are what's really damaged. And that might result in needing to replace the motherboard. And sadly, such damage would not be covered by warranty.

Yep, that's a risk as well

Hopefully UPS claims go better than USPS. I was in a battle with USPS for 4 months over $600 before I am now finally supposedly going to get my money. Over something that was undeniable and obvious, they made it impossible and tedious. I think their strategy at USPS is to wear people down and try to get them to give up.
Good luck to you! Better start collecting and scanning all your build receipts, estimating and justifying your labor, and start collecting competing market data to justify the sale value.
At USPS, the way it works is that you turn the whole thing in to them, they lose or destroy it, you argue with them why they owe you money, and they finally pay you. Similarly, if you are going to file a UPS claim, I assume that they will want to cover the whole insured value (or nothing at all), and you should not start repairing it or expecting to reuse any parts yet, until the claim process is done and you find out how much of it they keep.

I have read that someone had insured something for $5000, and they paid him $1000 of that, so its not an all or nothing thing it seems.

But I largely think the claim will be unsuccessful and they will probably site: You didnt have us pack it for you

Or something like that

 

[Bill_Bright]

You didnt have us pack it for you

That's a good point. Not sure how much they charge (UPS stores are franchisees so prices vary) but they do offer replacement cost warranties.

 

[tabascosauz]

Well, I can't submit a claim on the package since we already had sent in because we thought hte package was lost. Had no update on the tracking for about 7 days, until the day it was at his local hub and was out for delivery. Case since has been closed, but i cant open another so Ill have to contact UPS tomorrow im sure.

In meantime im going to offer a return shipping label to get it back to me and see about getting it functional again. I suspect all that is needed is a CPU reseat and maybe a new cooler after it got all bent out of shape. And than package it up like I am expecting it to be yeeted off a cliff to get back to him

Do you usually pack the case interior with those inflatable packs when you ship? It doesn't take much to bend fins, but it takes quite a bit of force to severely bend heatpipes. I'd have major concerns about mobo damage.

 

[Deleted member 229121]

Did you put shipping insurance on it?

If you did you could just file a claim with UPS/FedEx or whoever the carrier was.
He could just send the whole thing back, and you'd pocket whatever was salvageable after the claim is sorted.

As for the shipping, doesn't seem like much way to avoid sending it complete if they're paying you to do that for them.
I used to work in a shipping dept (including hazmat), so for me the two most important things would be:

1) Overpack.

• Put the rig in the box from the case, then into a larger double-walled box, and fill with foam / packing materials.

2) Insurance

• Self explanatory, but it is well worth it.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Inflatable packs are fine. You don't jam them in there with your foot. You just stuff just enough in to take up the cavity space to add support to heavy, hanging devices. But again, the better solution is to remove the risk completely and ship the tall, heavy coolers separately.

It doesn't take much to bend fins, but it takes quite a bit of force to severely bend heatpipes.

Heatpipes? I don't see where the OP said anything about heatpipes.

 

[ty_ger]

Did you put shipping insurance on it?

If you did you could just file a claim with UPS/FedEx or whoever the carrier was.

post #1
"We did insure it for $3000 with UPS so we are going to file a claim."

 

[Deleted member 229121]

Ah. Been one of those days (missed it) lol, but glad it was then.

Over packing is still my best advice.
We did as much as possible to avoid having to deal with reshipments and claims.

 

[tabascosauz]

Heatpipes? I don't see where the OP said anything about heatpipes.

Literally the first paragraph where it says "tower cooler"

 

[MxPhenom 216]

Literally the first paragraph where it says "tower cooler"

Right, at like 30 degrees facing towards the rear fan. And so i think it was the pipes that got bent under forces

Did you put shipping insurance on it?

If you did you could just file a claim with UPS/FedEx or whoever the carrier was.
He could just send the whole thing back, and you'd pocket whatever was salvageable after the claim is sorted.

As for the shipping, doesn't seem like much way to avoid sending it complete if they're paying you to do that for them.
I used to work in a shipping dept (including hazmat), so for me the two most important things would be:

1) Overpack.

• Put the rig in the box from the case, then into a larger double-walled box, and fill with foam / packing materials.

2) Insurance

• Self explanatory, but it is well worth it.

Yep, shipping insurance is on it. $3000

Do you usually pack the case interior with those inflatable packs when you ship? It doesn't take much to bend fins, but it takes quite a bit of force to severely bend heatpipes. I'd have major concerns about mobo damage.

This is the first computer I have shipped with 2 of those expanding packs + air filled plastic sacks. The only area that didnt get anything was the space between the cooler and rear fan. And thats where the cooler bent towards. So i think all the movement and stuff from shipping caused the packing material to apply force on the cooler and sinxe there was nothing on the other sude of it thats why it was leaning that way when he got it

Yep, my main concern is mobo damage at this point. Which is why i want him to send it back to me but i havent gotten a hold of him yet. Will call him tomorrow with a game plan


If i can get him to send it back, i may even swap the tower cooler out for 240 Aio, and eat that cost myself. Thats assuming the board isnt totalled.

 

[damric]

ugh this exactly why I only do local builds

 

[MxPhenom 216]

ugh this exactly why I only do local builds

Yep, I feel that. Contemplating the same now after this.

 

[damric]

Yep, I feel that. Contemplating the same now after this.

yeah hopefully you don't lose too much on this, not only money lost but also time

 

[lexluthermiester]

Is there any other way to handle this better?

Yes, stop using UPS. The USPS handles packages, especially large ones, more carefully mostly because they do not like damage claims. Also, if you're not using the expanding foam filler packets, now is a good time to start.