Intel Core "Special Edition" Owners' Club

[JustBenching]

GN just interviewed Wendell. I must say, the issue is much worse than I imagined. Thankfully, I have not experienced any major stability issues with my personal sample. Hopefully Intel will get to the bottom of this. If they end up doing a hardware revision, though, I expect 13th Gen chips that are RMA'd to be replaced by 14th Gen equivalents on the updated stepping.

According to the video 50% of the CPUs experience these issues. The problem is, as an end user (and according to the data he provided) you'll only see an issue (crash / restart) once every 336 hours or something. For a normal user that would translate to basically once every couple of months, so it's really hard to notice and pinpoint it to the cpu I guess.

The "good" thing - since they have tried lowering clockspeeds etc and that still doesn't fix the issue, it's means it has nothing to do with the CPUs being pushed? Hard to tell at this point but it looks like a hardware error?

 

[Vario]

According to the video 50% of the CPUs experience these issues. The problem is, as an end user (and according to the data he provided) you'll only see an issue (crash / restart) once every 336 hours or something. For a normal user that would translate to basically once every couple of months, so it's really hard to notice and pinpoint it to the cpu I guess.

The "good" thing - since they have tried lowering clockspeeds etc and that still doesn't fix the issue, it's means it has nothing to do with the CPUs being pushed? Hard to tell at this point but it looks like a hardware error?

One decent thing was after all the press coverage on this, I decided to check my overclock profile again and noticed my VSSA (System Agent) had been set to auto, which meant the board was supplying something like 1.38V, rather than an undervolted setting, so I changed it 1.0V.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I got the Encore yesterday. Spent most of the afternoon on cable management for my rig, but here she is. Unfortunately while pretty my new case doesn't fit the EVGA Nu Audio, or even the support bracket i purchased for my 4080... thankfully there doesn't seem to be any sagging going on. Most I'll do to this build is install some exhaust fans for the summer. No rush, though.

Not that I'm surprised, but turns out my 13900KS is a painfully average sample. SP 108, P-core 118, E-core 89, MC 76. Not bad, not exceptional, right in the middle of the bell curve if we're to go by the Igor's Lab sample data. It's the standard "silver sample" and for what I want out of it, that's just fine. I've already gotten what i wanted out of the memory kit in my very first try as well. It had a great baseline profile for Hynix A 7600 memory and my kit loved it, just needed a little adjustment to the usual suspect tertiaries and tREFI. I got 7600 C36 37000% karhu stable, with 1.2V SA and 1.425V on DRAM voltage. Didn't spend much time getting the volts as low as they can go yet but I'm already satisfied with the current results. Massive improvement over the Ace in this regard.

 

[Vario]

I got the Encore yesterday. Spent most of the afternoon on cable management for my rig, but here she is. Unfortunately while pretty my new case doesn't fit the EVGA Nu Audio, or even the support bracket i purchased for my 4080... thankfully there doesn't seem to be any sagging going on. Most I'll do to this build is install some exhaust fans for the summer. No rush, though.

View attachment 355463

Not that I'm surprised, but turns out my 13900KS is a painfully average sample. SP 108, P-core 118, E-core 89, MC 76. Not bad, not exceptional, right in the middle of the bell curve if we're to go by the Igor's Lab sample data. It's the standard "silver sample" and for what I want out of it, that's just fine. I've already gotten what i wanted out of the memory kit in my very first try as well. It had a great baseline profile for Hynix A 7600 memory and my kit loved it, just needed a little adjustment to the usual suspect tertiaries and tREFI. I got 7600 C36 37000% karhu stable, with 1.2V SA and 1.425V on DRAM voltage. Didn't spend much time getting the volts as low as they can go yet but I'm already satisfied with the current results. Massive improvement over the Ace in this regard.

Do you have more fans you can add to that case? Looks like it would benefit from putting fans on the area in front of the motherboard.

 

[wNotyarD]

Do you have more fans you can add to that case? Looks like it would benefit from putting fans on the area in front of the motherboard.

I'd say it could be more important to populate the lower deck with fans... provided they fit under his 4080.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Do you have more fans you can add to that case? Looks like it would benefit from putting fans on the area in front of the motherboard.

The fans I have are pretty bad. I am going to order some to install soon.

 

[Vario]

I'd say it could be more important to populate the lower deck with fans... provided they fit under his 4080.

I'd also suggest removing the dust filter below the videocard so the videocard gets more airflow.

If space is an issue, the thin Noctuas (NF-A12x15) are pretty good.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I'd also suggest removing the dust filter below the videocard so the videocard gets more airflow.

If space is an issue, the thin Noctuas (NF-A12x15) are pretty good.

250 bucks each around here. Owww. I'd love to go all out on Noctua fans but that is a very high investment

 

[Vario]

250 bucks each around here. Owww. I'd love to go all out on Noctua fans but that is a very high investment

Wow, I paid $15 per NF-A12x15 for my O11 Air Mini roof, they were eBay sourced preowned that looked never used. Not too many thin fans that are worth it on the market these days, you can hopefully just run a 25mm instead.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Yeah, they cost a pretty penny brand new. I just ordered 9 fancy white ARGB fans from a local white label brand and another NF-F12 industrialPPC for my NH-D15S. The fan that came with it I will likely mount on the back side of the case.

 

[Enigmatic9400]

Gamers Nexus released a new video about intel stability issues of those processors. He said a few possible information & speculation that come from intel's customers:

1. Copper oxidation during manufacture, which cause internal resistance of the CPU increase gradually and cause high voltage. (Info from one of the biggest intel customer)
2. High voltage with high temperature, no power limit. (other people's general ideas)
3. From the above customer, they bought 8 million intel chips. In them, around 6.2 millions are (i9 13/14th gen, i7 13/14th gen, i5 13/14th gen) and estimated failure rate is around 10%-25% for those SKUs.
4. Other chips in the same SKUs works normally.

For the oxidation issue, Gamers Nexus is going to ask a lab to do analysis of a few samples they got from viewers, due to the complexity of intel's sillicon, each chip only has a 50% success rate and costs 50k to analysis so they could only afford 1- 2 chips.

They will not recommend any intel 13-14th gen CPU until intel makes a public statement describing reasons of the failure (will mention in future comparison benchmarks as well).
==================================================================================================================

Intel will be in big trouble if they stay silent till Zen 5 launch.

 

[Dr. Dro]

It seems Intel is not yet ready to make a statement regarding their findings, if any. I don't like it either, I consider myself one of the fortunate people that have a CPU that seemingly did not malfunction, although I never pushed my processor very far to begin with. I fear that any eventual decision to issue a recall at this point in time - Raptor Lake is in-market for almost 2 fiscal years at this point - may prove an extremely heavy blow to the company's financial situation, so if there is no way other than a hardware revision or recall program, they will take as long as possible to announce it, hopefully pushing it into the time frame that people will no longer care as much (Arrow and Zen 5 in-market, perhaps).

Regardless, it feels bad being unable to trust your machine. If it's a timebomb I do not know. I just hope Bartlett Lake ends up a reality. I'm looking forward to purchasing one.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I gotta say I really liked how it turned out in the end. Second iPPC for the D15S and the fans came in. The RGB can only be controlled by a case with a button though... so in some really odd way only 3 of the 9 fans actually light up. These are Molex powered. Awful... but hey. Cheap and I already blew out the budget here.

I'm probably going to move out my X99 build to the Masterframe. I miss having it in an open case but, this motherboard is way too expensive to risk anything happening to it

 

[Enigmatic9400]

View attachment 356021

I gotta say I really liked how it turned out in the end. Second iPPC for the D15S and the fans came in. The RGB can only be controlled by a case with a button though... so in some really odd way only 3 of the 9 fans actually light up. These are Molex powered. Awful... but hey. Cheap and I already blew out the budget here.

I'm probably going to move out my X99 build to the Masterframe. I miss having it in an open case but, this motherboard is way too expensive to risk anything happening to it

Nice & clean build! I wonder how is your fan's static pressure? Are they flow optimized or pressure optimized? I do afraid that case temperature can get high with low pressure fans.

Your fans on the CPU heatsink is a bit small, do you plan to get bigger fans?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Nice & clean build! I wonder how is your fan's static pressure? Are they flow optimized or pressure optimized? I do afraid that case temperature can get high with low pressure fans.

Your fans on the CPU heatsink is a bit small, do you plan to get bigger fans?

The fans on the NH-D15S are the right size. The stock NF-A15 actually bulges out of the heatsink a little bit, and touches the case glass. These are industrial-grade very high-pressure fans. They can get very noisy but with a good configuration and the correct hysteresis, they work fine. Other than the noise, the primary concern is price. These iPPCs are extremely and I mean outrageously expensive fans.

NF-F12 industrialPPC-3000 PWM

Conceived for industrial heavy duty applications that require enhanced cooling performance and advanced ingress protection, the NF-F12 industrialPPC (Protected Performance Cooling) is a ruggedised high-speed version of the award-winning retail model. Thanks to the outstanding aerodynamic...

noctua.at

As for others, cheap white label fans. Claims 50 cfm @ 1650 RPM. Case is putting out good air, temps are alright. Only the lighting on the "master" fan works, since I didn't hook up the control wires and these disgraceful things actually use molex for power. I went as cheap as it could get while fitting the theme of the build here. I want to replace them all with NF-P12 Redux-1700 fans eventually, but I don't have the budget for it right now. I need 10 of them plus a controller hub and that's going to cost a pretty penny. I will probably do that around the time Bartlett Lake is announced (if that's the case). Will probably upgrade to the D15 G2 alongside that CPU.

Kit Fan_X_Led_White_ARGB - Rise Mode - Industry

COMPRAR RISE USA RISE LOJA Kabum Previous slide Next slide Estilo e Desempenho O Kit Fan X led eleva a performance e o visual do seu setup para um novo patamar. Com iluminação ARGB este kit proporciona um efeito visual impressionante, enquanto suas especificações técnicas garantem uma...

risemode.com

 

[Enigmatic9400]

The fans on the NH-D15S are the right size. The stock NF-A15 actually bulges out of the heatsink a little bit, and touches the case glass. These are industrial-grade very high-pressure fans. They can get very noisy but with a good configuration and the correct hysteresis, they work fine. Other than the noise, the primary concern is price. These iPPCs are extremely and I mean outrageously expensive fans.

NF-F12 industrialPPC-3000 PWM

Conceived for industrial heavy duty applications that require enhanced cooling performance and advanced ingress protection, the NF-F12 industrialPPC (Protected Performance Cooling) is a ruggedised high-speed version of the award-winning retail model. Thanks to the outstanding aerodynamic...

noctua.at

As for others, cheap white label fans. Claims 50 cfm @ 1650 RPM. Case is putting out good air, temps are alright. Only the lighting on the "master" fan works, since I didn't hook up the control wires and these disgraceful things actually use molex for power. I went as cheap as it could get while fitting the theme of the build here. I want to replace them all with NF-P12 Redux-1700 fans eventually, but I don't have the budget for it right now. I need 10 of them plus a controller hub and that's going to cost a pretty penny. I will probably do that around the time Bartlett Lake is announced (if that's the case). Will probably upgrade to the D15 G2 alongside that CPU.

Kit Fan_X_Led_White_ARGB - Rise Mode - Industry

COMPRAR RISE USA RISE LOJA Kabum Previous slide Next slide Estilo e Desempenho O Kit Fan X led eleva a performance e o visual do seu setup para um novo patamar. Com iluminação ARGB este kit proporciona um efeito visual impressionante, enquanto suas especificações técnicas garantem uma...

risemode.com

I have not seen your mention arctic fans. I personally use P12 Max on my 360mm aio which did lower 3C compare to stock corsair fans. Although nuctua fans may have slightly better performance, price to performance standpoint arctic is great. P12 Max's performance is similar to noctua's f12 ppc fan. I guess P14 max is similar to noctua's offering as well. They spin around 3300 rpm with ample pressure.

 

[Enigmatic9400]

The fans on the NH-D15S are the right size. The stock NF-A15 actually bulges out of the heatsink a little bit, and touches the case glass. These are industrial-grade very high-pressure fans. They can get very noisy but with a good configuration and the correct hysteresis, they work fine. Other than the noise, the primary concern is price. These iPPCs are extremely and I mean outrageously expensive fans.

NF-F12 industrialPPC-3000 PWM

Conceived for industrial heavy duty applications that require enhanced cooling performance and advanced ingress protection, the NF-F12 industrialPPC (Protected Performance Cooling) is a ruggedised high-speed version of the award-winning retail model. Thanks to the outstanding aerodynamic...

noctua.at

As for others, cheap white label fans. Claims 50 cfm @ 1650 RPM. Case is putting out good air, temps are alright. Only the lighting on the "master" fan works, since I didn't hook up the control wires and these disgraceful things actually use molex for power. I went as cheap as it could get while fitting the theme of the build here. I want to replace them all with NF-P12 Redux-1700 fans eventually, but I don't have the budget for it right now. I need 10 of them plus a controller hub and that's going to cost a pretty penny. I will probably do that around the time Bartlett Lake is announced (if that's the case). Will probably upgrade to the D15 G2 alongside that CPU.

Kit Fan_X_Led_White_ARGB - Rise Mode - Industry

COMPRAR RISE USA RISE LOJA Kabum Previous slide Next slide Estilo e Desempenho O Kit Fan X led eleva a performance e o visual do seu setup para um novo patamar. Com iluminação ARGB este kit proporciona um efeito visual impressionante, enquanto suas especificações técnicas garantem uma...

risemode.com

It is a little bit sad that your cannot control your fan curve with molex connectors..... unless you wanna go delta fans with 10k rams!

 

[Dr. Dro]

I have not seen your mention arctic fans. I personally use P12 Max on my 360mm aio which did lower 3C compare to stock corsair fans. Although nuctua fans may have slightly better performance, price to performance standpoint arctic is great. P12 Max's performance is similar to noctua's f12 ppc fan. I guess P14 max is similar to noctua's offering as well. They spin around 3300 rpm with ample pressure.

NF-P12 are from Noctua as well, not the similarly named Arctic (great fans too, btw)

NF-P12 redux-1700 PWM

Specifically designed for pressure demanding applications such as CPU or radiator cooling, the classic NF-P12 is a long-standing favourite among enthusiast users around the world and helped to found Noctua’s reputation as a top-tier manufacturer of premium quality quiet cooling components. The...

noctua.at

3300 rpm is gonna be a lot of noise

 

[Enigmatic9400]

NF-P12 are from Noctua as well, not the similarly named Arctic (great fans too, btw)

NF-P12 redux-1700 PWM

Specifically designed for pressure demanding applications such as CPU or radiator cooling, the classic NF-P12 is a long-standing favourite among enthusiast users around the world and helped to found Noctua’s reputation as a top-tier manufacturer of premium quality quiet cooling components. The...

noctua.at

3300 rpm is gonna be a lot of noise

Yeah I know both P12s lol, just cannot afford all noctua.

3300 rpm is acceptable when I use my computer on full load. I do not want overheating.

 

[Vario]

It seems Intel is not yet ready to make a statement regarding their findings, if any. I don't like it either, I consider myself one of the fortunate people that have a CPU that seemingly did not malfunction, although I never pushed my processor very far to begin with. I fear that any eventual decision to issue a recall at this point in time - Raptor Lake is in-market for almost 2 fiscal years at this point - may prove an extremely heavy blow to the company's financial situation, so if there is no way other than a hardware revision or recall program, they will take as long as possible to announce it, hopefully pushing it into the time frame that people will no longer care as much (Arrow and Zen 5 in-market, perhaps).

Regardless, it feels bad being unable to trust your machine. If it's a timebomb I do not know. I just hope Bartlett Lake ends up a reality. I'm looking forward to purchasing one.

Undervolt the thing and run a lower clock speed until theres a microcode fix for you.

 

[RaceT3ch]

So hows your electricity bill doing?
Can't be cheap to run one of these.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

So hows your electricity bill doing?
Can't be cheap to run one of these.

its not like everyone has "NO" money to pay electricity bills, don't drag this to another AMD vs INTEL efficiency race. I personally have 2 binned 13900KS's and I am pretty happy using them....period!! I only pay around 80-90$ a month on Electricity bill (that's with AC and water chiller usage)

 

[ir_cow]

So hows your electricity bill doing?
Can't be cheap to run one of these.

Bill is about the same to me. My 7950x also pulls 250watts or more hehe.

 

[RootinTootinPootin]

Bill is about the same to me. My 7950x also pulls 250watts or more hehe.

"Normal" people will be scared with you just saying your Ryzen 9 pulls more than 250w..lmao..

 

[Dr. Dro]

So hows your electricity bill doing?
Can't be cheap to run one of these.

The electricity bill isn't a problem in general - if anything, "power efficient" Ryzens may end up with a higher power bill because of power supply conversion losses unless you're running a Titanium-grade PSU with 90%+ efficiency at 10% load. The actual challenge with these i9's is cooling them - but even then it's not entirely unreasonable.

its not like everyone has "NO" money to pay electricity bills, don't drag this to another AMD vs INTEL efficiency race. I personally have 2 binned 13900KS's and I am pretty happy using them....period!! I only pay around 80-90$ a month on Electricity bill (that's with AC and water chiller usage)

I just think of my PC like a muscle car. It's not about efficiency, it's about power, and power it's got