12VHPWR has a higher number of reported failures than 6/8 pin does despite being much younger

[evernessince]

The gold nugget of this video though is this chart illustrating the total number of people who experiences issues with 6/8 pin vs 12VHPWR:

I'm surprised GN didn't do more to illustrate why it's extremely bad that 12VHPWR already has a higher total number of failure instances. 6 / 8 pin has been around for 17 years while 12VHPWR has only been around for 1 GPU generation and yet the number of failures already exceeds that of 6/8-pin. If one were to extrapolate this data into a failure rate, 12VHPWR would be several magnitudes worse.

That's before you even consider that the question is narrowly enough worded so as to exclude 12V2X6 issues. Even if we assume that they reduce the failure rate of the connector by ensuring it has to be properly mated, the failure rate is still not nearly as good as the 6/8-pin due to the lower safety tolerances and the 25cm straight cable requirement of the specs.

IMO this kind of increase in failure rate due to a power connector is absolutely unacceptable. More than 17 years worth of failures now happen in a single year thanks to this new connector. IMO GN did not go nearly far enough in pushing from improvements or replacements to the connector.

 

[Deleted member 242843]

I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen a case of catastrophic failure for either connector that wasn't related to user error in some way.

 

[evernessince]

I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen a case of catastrophic failure for either connector that wasn't related to user error in some way.

For sure there are user failures in both instances but the fact would remain that one connector is vastly more resistant to user error while the other is not. I still see a lot of people complaining about the lack of clicking in their 12VHPWR / 12V2X6 connector and the mating force required to correctly install the new connector, which has just been an issue since day one and is bad design.

 

[Deleted member 242843]

Personally, I'd like to see pigtails on the cards themselves, and use big fat conductors and connectors. Something like this

but I doubt that is going to happen. A lot of us use power supplies you could weld with, and tiny wires for the conductors (ever seen welding leads....they aren't tiny).

It is bound to cause problems at some point. You are probably right to seek a better design.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I see you are referring to the exhaustive study and 1 hr 12 minute video from Gamer’s Nexus?

The majority of problems stemmed from angled connectors, and of those the highest number were from 2 brands. I think also the problems were nearly all from aftermarket connectors, not ones that actually came with ATX-compliant PSU’s.

It’s not so much a big deal.

 

[evernessince]

I see you are referring to the exhaustive study and 1 hr 12 minute video from Gamer’s Nexus?

The video was done in collaboration with industry experts and sources and it was also fact checked by experts as well. I'm saying this because you appear to be sarcastic.

The majority of problems stemmed from angled connectors, and of those the highest number were from 2 brands. I think also the problems were nearly all from aftermarket connectors, not ones that actually came with ATX-compliant PSU’s.

It’s not so much a big deal.

Well yes "you think", because nothing of the sort is stated in the video. Seems rather hypocritical to rebut the lengths GN goes to provide objective information but then having nothing to counter it except personal opinion and then coming to a conclusion that it isn't an issue based merely on that.

 

[Deleted member 223428]

You seem to have a difficult time understanding percentages. Maybe read it again slower this time.

 

[freeagent]

It really is not that hard to click it into place.. you just push until you hear the click, not until you hear your PCB snap. Maybe it is an issue with the cable itself? Maybe A-Brand PSU maker has a better cable than B brand?

Just grasping at straws here.

Not gonna lie, it is nicer to deal and route 1 cable instead of 2 or 3.

 

[arbiter]

It really is not that hard to click it into place.. you just push until you hear the click, not until you hear your PCB snap. Maybe it is an issue with the cable itself? Maybe A-Brand PSU maker has a better cable than B brand?

Just grasping at straws here.

Not gonna lie, it is nicer to deal and route 1 cable instead of 2 or 3.

in terms of same power draw specs, its 1 cable vs 4. I wonder what failure rate of 2x6 pin if you pulled 300watts through each to match that 12pin.

 

[JWNoctis]

It really is not that hard to click it into place.. you just push until you hear the click, not until you hear your PCB snap. Maybe it is an issue with the cable itself? Maybe A-Brand PSU maker has a better cable than B brand?

Just grasping at straws here.

Not gonna lie, it is nicer to deal and route 1 cable instead of 2 or 3.

A connector that does not actually feel smaller than a PCIe 8-pin would have made that easier. I remember being shocked by how little it is, for something supposed to carry 12V/600W, hanging off a beefy cable.

It is not as if people don't still have to deal with huge legacy connectors elsewhere, despite attempts like ATX12VO.

 

[freeagent]

in terms of same power draw specs, its 1 cable vs 4.

Indeed..

But as long as it is clicked into place it should be fine. Running my card all out and the cable and connector are fine temperature wise.

A connector that does not actually feel smaller than a PCIe 8-pin would have made that easier.

I don't know.. maybe I am just good with my hands? Even my first try plugging it in was not a problem at all, heard the click and I was set. Once its in, you can pull on it, do whatever.. within reason.

 

[nguyen]

Indeed..

But as long as it is clicked into place it should be fine. Running my card all out and the cable and connector are fine temperature wise.

I don't know.. maybe I am just good with my hands? Even my first try plugging it in was not a problem at all, heard the click and I was set. Once its in, you can pull on it, do whatever.. within reason.

Or just buy sub 300W GPU, cable will never melt, problem solved.

But then there would be nothing to rage about

 

[evernessince]

It really is not that hard to click it into place.. you just push until you hear the click, not until you hear your PCB snap.

You can see on the Nvidia reddit quite a few people are pointing out that they don't get any click at all. One of the complaints were that people weren't getting the clicking. Combine that with some cards obscuring the card side connector and it was not a good recipie.

Maybe it is an issue with the cable itself? Maybe A-Brand PSU maker has a better cable than B brand?

Lack of safety tolerances and lack of an actual enforcement mechanism to ensure connectors meet the standard are two factors cited in the video.

If the cable were the issue, I'd assume it would have manifested by now. After all you had people professionally testing to see if they can reproduce this issue and the cable was one of the variables controlled. They tried different adapters, PSU, insertion methods, ect and the only thing that made the issue reproducible was not fully slotting the connector and bending the wires to the side (as if you had your PC side panel on).

Just grasping at straws here.

Not gonna lie, it is nicer to deal and route 1 cable instead of 2 or 3.

It could help airflow too. IMO though not worth additional failures. I'd much prefer something like what ASUS showed with the power connector on the mobo. Zero cables in that instance.

 

[Macro Device]

cable will never melt

It'll still be both fugly and unnecessary because SURPRISE, a single 8-pin is more than fine for sub-300 W GPUs. Of course if we're talking quality plugs and quality PSUs in general.

Cotton candy is a better engineer than those invented 12VHPWR.

 

[nguyen]

It'll still be both fugly and unnecessary because SURPRISE, a single 8-pin is more than fine for sub-300 W GPUs. Of course if we're talking quality plugs and quality PSUs in general.

Cotton candy is a better engineer than those invented 12VHPWR.

Where are those 300W GPU with single 8pin? do you know what you are talking about?

 

[rtwjunkie]

The video was done in collaboration with industry experts and sources and it was also fact checked by experts as well. I'm saying this because you appear to be sarcastic.

You assume that which does not exist. I’m not being sarcastic at all. You seem to be worked up. You ok?

Well yes "you think", because nothing of the sort is stated in the video. Seems rather hypocritical to rebut the lengths GN goes to provide objective information but then having nothing to counter it except personal opinion and then coming to a conclusion that it isn't an issue based merely on that.

Nothing of the sort, huh? The primary focus of rhe video was with angled connectors that aren’t OEM. You seem worked up. I’ll ask again…you ok? Is this personal for you?

 

[Vario]

Most of the problem was the CableMod cables.

 

[Deleted member 234478]

stupid design by nvidia for sure. id take 3x8pin over that trash 12vhpwr

 

[Macro Device]

Where are those 300W GPU with single 8pin? do you know what you are talking about?

They are nowhere because manufacturers don't want their wares blow your sorry parody of a PSU up because almost no PSU comes with AWG16 cables that actually can withstand it.

So if having AWG16 was a standard and most people could afford such PSUs and the vast majority PSU manufacturers were at least relatively sound then we'd have 6-pin GPUs like RTX 4070 (sub 200W) and 8-pin GPUs like RTX 4070 Ti Super (sub 300 W) as well as 6+8 pin GPUs like 4090 (sub 500 W). At about seventeen hundred percent safety level.

But alas. They smoke everything they can find on the black market and then come up with the most moronic connector this globe has ever seen and blame users for damages. Innovations must come calculated, not ejaculated.

 

[nguyen]

They are nowhere because manufacturers don't want their wares blow your sorry parody of a PSU up because almost no PSU comes with AWG16 cables that actually can withstand it.

So if having AWG16 was a standard and most people could afford such PSUs and the vast majority PSU manufacturers were at least relatively sound then we'd have 6-pin GPUs like RTX 4070 (sub 200W) and 8-pin GPUs like RTX 4070 Ti Super (sub 300 W) as well as 6+8 pin GPUs like 4090 (sub 500 W). At about seventeen hundred percent safety level.

But alas. They smoke everything they can find on the black market and then come up with the most moronic connector this globe has ever seen and blame users for damages. Innovations must come calculated, not ejaculated.

So it's PSU manufacturers fault for making poor quality 8pin cable, but somehow it's Nvidia fault for poor quality 12pin cable .

BTW it's a design from PCI-SIG consortium, if anything send your hate mails to them

 

[Macro Device]

Nvidia fault

I heard it's not their invention but I got no proof on hand. Anyway, they adopted it so they're also responsible.

And this design is really very poor. I've seen 10 y.o. kids coming up with smarter stuff than that. And they ain't even attending engineering classes.

Wires should be thick, there should be no way you can plug it incorrectly (unless you really try) and there should be 1+ kW abuse capacity in cables rated for 600 W. Bending also should never have been an issue. Enforcing AWG16 so singular old school 6-pins suddenly become suitable for enthusiast segment gaming GPUs would've been a gajillion magnitudes better.

 

[nguyen]

I heard it's not their invention but I got no proof on hand. Anyway, they adopted it so they're also responsible.

And this design is really very poor. I've seen 10 y.o. kids coming up with smarter stuff than that. And they ain't even attending engineering classes.

Wires should be thick, there should be no way you can plug it incorrectly (unless you really try) and there should be 1+ kW abuse capacity in cables rated for 600 W. Bending also should never have been an issue. Enforcing AWG16 so singular old school 6-pins suddenly become suitable for enthusiast segment gaming GPUs would've been a gajillion magnitudes better.

Everything you said is just pure hyperpole that there is no point discussing

 

[maxfly]

Innovations must come calculated, not ejaculated.

I don't care who you are, that there was funny.

Everything you said is just pure hyperpole that there is no point discussing

I heard hyperpoles were outlawed by the cable benders when this all started...just sayin.

 

[chrcoluk]

Most of the problem was the CableMod cables.

I would have liked GN to have a look at the cable situation, as the recall as it turns out was just the adaptors not the cables. Of course many people get the two mixed up as cablemod sell right angled cables still which have had no recall, I brought one but decided to not use it in the end. I havent seen reports of burnt out connectors on those cables, but is people reporting stability issues that got resolved either by using the Nvidia adaptor or changing to a cable supplied by their PSU vendor.

GN very briefly mentions the cables in the video, that they dont have the PCB component, but otherwise its all about the right angled and 180 adaptors.

 

[stahlhart]

This is a photo taken this morning of the CableMod C-Series Pro ModMesh I purchased about a year and a half ago. Only maintenance done is a small drop of DeOxIt D100L on the 12V and ground pins every few months or so.

This RTX 4090 is approaching two years of use with zero issues related to power delivery. The card is stock with no BIOS or voltage modifications made.

I don't know what the root cause of the melting connectors is, nor am I going to speculate on it or argue with anyone. I'm just responding to the categoric insistence that it's the fault of CableMod or the fault of the connector, because I'm providing a real-world use case of both of these operating within design specifications.

I did have a melting power connector problem in the past -- it was an ATI All-In-Wonder 9800 Pro where it had one typically used on floppy drives, and it clearly wasn't up to the job.

Poor Steve must be running out of things to create his usual whiny negative content about. Maybe he can find another overheating no-name pre-built at Wal-Mart with poor air flow or go on yet another unhinged rant about Alienware while he's at it. Got tired of his "I'm the smartest guy in the room" schtick years ago.