Lowering idle power on Zen 4?

[chrcoluk]

Fair enough, I assume my 5600G is only one CCD, idle power ironically is opposite for me, my AMD system is 95-99% idle or very low load.
Desktop varies, but I can for many days in a row just use it for work, browsing and media consumption all of which are low power, but then on days I game can be several hours of gaming.

 

[Zach_01]

Yeah I get that, but my Zen 3 system is considerably lower, and I remember that having similar reported idle power, or maybe Zen 3 is officially lower and I am thinking nonsense.

My quoted number is total system power draw, 30W would be impossible if the CPU+SOC is consuming that by itself.

30W total system power? A Ryzen system?
Hardly

My PSU has its own sensors for power (output/input)
Never saw it below 90W (100~105W on socket)
At dips the CPU is 35W + GPU 20W + 35W the rest of the system that includes a 420mm AIO, 4x120mm fans, 2x16GB DRAM, 2xNVMe, 2xSATA SSD

What does HWiNFO tells you for the CPU?

 

[chrcoluk]

30W total system power? A Ryzen system?
Hardly

My PSU has its own sensors for power (output/input)
Never saw it below 90W (100~105W on socket)
At dips the CPU is 35W + GPU 20W + 35W the rest of the system that includes a 420mm AIO, 4x120mm fans, 2x16GB DRAM, 2xNVMe, 2xSATA SSD

What does HWiNFO tells you for the CPU?

See couple of posts up, I screenshotted the smart plug power measurement.

This is the system power, 3 case fans, 1 AMD stock CPU fan, 3 SATA SSDs and 1 NVME SSD. There is 4 spindles in the machine but they are currently not spinning. Using iGPU no dGPU.

If you think mine is low, I found a blogger doing similar with a intel system and has idle power circa 10w which is crazy for desktop hardware. According to him low wattage PSU and low end boards are key, so maybe that I only have a b450 pro 4 as board and a fairly low end PSU by todays standards is helping as well.

System is running proxmox (debian), currently powered up VMs are TrueNAS and a FreeBSD VM, so I cant run hwinfo. I do plan to install the software level 1 tech used in one of his videos at some point though.

 

[Zach_01]

See couple of posts up, I screenshotted the smart plug power measurement.

This is the system power, 3 case fans, 1 AMD stock CPU fan, 3 SATA SSDs and 1 NVME SSD. There is 4 spindles in the machine but they are currently not spinning. Using iGPU no dGPU.

I was thinking about the iGPU
And its a 5600G, ok
On typical nonAPU Zen3 and single CCD the SoC power can be cut in half from dual CCD CPUs. About 7-10W.
Not sure about the "invisible" chiplet interconnection power but that could be also ~half.

Still curious about HWiNFO64 report on the 5600G about the sensors I posted.

 

[chrcoluk]

I was thinking about the iGPU
And its a 5600G, ok
On typical nonAPU Zen3 and single CCD the SoC power can be cut in half from dual CCD CPUs. About 7-10W.
Not sure about the "invisible" chiplet interconnection power but that could be also ~half.

Still curious about HWiNFO64 report on the 5600G about the sensors I posted.

View attachment 375618

I dont mind checking when I next boot windows, as the 850 pro has a windows install on it, but that could be ages away, if I remember when I next reboot this thing, I will check hwinfo.

 

[rubiconlexicon]

Nothing persists.
Its the nature of modular design. Chiplets.
As long as AMD uses chiplets that is the case. On latest Zen4/5 maybe things improved but still its a thing.

The interconnection between them is "eating" some power

View attachment 375611

Lets break it down
Total (CPU PPT) package power (avg) 45.5W
Cores: 14W
SoC: 17.8W
Cores+SoC: 31.8W

45.5 - 31.8 = 13.7 =~14

~14W is consumption of the chiplet(s) interconnection.
There is no individual sensor for it. You have to find it like above.

On my 7700X I have a reading "Core+SoC+MISC Power" which usually sits at around 7W lower than Package Power. Could interconnect power simply be Package - Core+SoC+MISC for me?

 

[Zach_01]

On my 7700X I have a reading "Core+SoC+MISC Power" which usually sits at around 7W lower than Package Power. Could interconnect power simply be Package - Core+SoC+MISC for me?

Could be... But I do not really know what MISC includes.

And the most accurate package power is "CPU PPT" (Package Power Tracking) that is pulled straight from CPU.
Classic "CPU Package Power" can be iffy as its a board reading.

 

[rubiconlexicon]

Could be... But I do not really know what MISC includes.

And the most accurate package power is "CPU PPT" (Package Power Tracking) that is pulled straight from CPU.
Classic "CPU Package Power" can be iffy as its a board reading.

The "CPU Package Power" I mentioned is under the "CPU [#0]: AMD Ryzen 7 7700X: Enhanced" section in HWINFO. Is that still a board reading? I thought everything under this section was from CPU.

 

[AusWolf]

Why are people so obsessed with lowering which is somewhat a normal idle power consumption for a desktop computer? if you want 5w idle then get a laptop that will throttle under any kind of load and be happy you are saving the planet with a 20-25w power saving which is less than an old style lightbulb, better yet just don't use your computer, 0w=infinity better than 25-30w CPU idle/desktop usage, all the while having a GPU that can munch 300w during gameplay is fine, but god forbid your CPU uses 30w at low load/idle, I am sure Bill Gates and the rest of the climate avengers would be happy to take a private jet trip to your house to tell you how you are causing climate change, cows farting also needs addressing btw

Did you read my post just two above yours? +10 Watts on your SoC means 10 Watts less headroom for the cores under full load, and thus, lower all-core performance on a severely power limited CPU such as the 7700 (non-X).

It also means more heat, which could be an issue when your cooling allows the CPU to reach its thermal limit.

For example, my 7800X3D runs at 85-86 °C when I'm crunching with BOINC with 4800 MHz RAM and 1 VSOC at a constant 4.8 GHz core speed. If I enable EXPO at 6000 MHz, VSOC jumps to 1.3 (I could manually lower it to 1.2 with not much difference in power used), which also means the CPU reaches its 89 °C limit under load and lowers core clocks. I'd much rather have higher and stable core clocks and lower temperatures than a higher memory clock that I don't feel literally anywhere.

Fair enough, I assume my 5600G is only one CCD, idle power ironically is opposite for me, my AMD system is 95-99% idle or very low load.
Desktop varies, but I can for many days in a row just use it for work, browsing and media consumption all of which are low power, but then on days I game can be several hours of gaming.

The 5600G isn't just one CCD... It's a single chip CPU with no infinity fabric (and no CCD basically), so your idle power should be a lot lower than any chiplet Ryzen.

 

[AleXXX666]

I've been tinkering with my 7700X in an attempt to lower idle power. So far I've shaved 6W off SOC (from ~11W to ~5W) by lowering SOC voltage to 935mV. I also seem to have shaved some extra power off elsewhere by lowering both VDDG voltages to their lowest possible value of 650mV. All of this is stable so far (y-cruncher, CoreCycler, and plenty of time spent at idle waiting for idle crashes). After this I tried messing with VDDP, VDDR_MISC, and even dropping RAM to JEDEC, but none of these reduced power. Have I already done all I can to reduce idle power consumption or is there something else to extract further gains?

the question is: WHY? are you powersaving-freak?

 

[chrcoluk]

The 5600G isn't just one CCD... It's a single chip CPU with no infinity fabric (and no CCD basically), so your idle power should be a lot lower than any chiplet Ryzen.

Sounds like I made a good choice of chip then for the use purpose.

 

[tabascosauz]

Sounds like I made a good choice of chip then for the use purpose.

APUs should always be sub-10W whole package power at pretty much all imaginable scenarios. If you're not pushing uncore especially hard, it should be much closer to 5W. ~10W is only really reasonable if you are pushing high VSOC and Fabric, *and* the iGPU hard at the same time.

They aren't immune to the "other" wattage, but it's again less than even 1CCD CPUs. Same story for SOC generally drawing less as well.

 

[Zach_01]

The "CPU Package Power" I mentioned is under the "CPU [#0]: AMD Ryzen 7 7700X: Enhanced" section in HWINFO. Is that still a board reading? I thought everything under this section was from CPU.

Yes CPU Enhanced section suppose to be from CPU. I always kept an eye on CPU PPT though. Seems more accurate and I'll explain why I say so.
If you observe "CPU PPT Limit" (%) sensor you will find that its tied to CPU PPT.

For example your CPU has a power limit of 88W.
If PBO is Auto/Disabled that is the default power limit of 7700nonX

Under full (MT) load if temp is ok the "CPU PPT Limit" will reach 100%
The "CPU PPT" then should say 88W.
And at least on both Ryzen CPUs I experienced (3600/5900X) the "CPU Package Power" was reporting something else than CPU PPT.
Usually higher than PPT, and that is why I do not pay attention to it.

Also when PBO is enabled in advanced the 3 main metrics you adjust is PPT/TDC/EDC, so...

 

[AusWolf]

the question is: WHY? are you powersaving-freak?

It has some advantages. Check out my post just above yours.

 

[londiste]

the question is: WHY? are you powersaving-freak?

Why not? I usually keep my PC on 24/7 and current 28W-ish CPU power usage is pretty horrible. My 4070TiS pulls itself down to a couple watts as well and the remainder of PC pulls less power than the CPU package. Every Intel (and to a lesser degree AMD APU) CPU has been using single digit watts at idle.

As others earlier - I am pretty surprised at the amount of SoC undervolt the OPs system can do. Mine becomes really unstable - mainly from RAM - when I get anywhere near 1V.

 

[sp_00n]

Why are people so obsessed with lowering which is somewhat a normal idle power consumption for a desktop computer? if you want 5w idle then get a laptop that will throttle under any kind of load and be happy you are saving the planet with a 20-25w power saving which is less than an old style lightbulb, better yet just don't use your computer, 0w=infinity better than 25-30w CPU idle/desktop usage, all the while having a GPU that can munch 300w during gameplay is fine, but god forbid your CPU uses 30w at low load/idle, I am sure Bill Gates and the rest of the climate avengers would be happy to take a private jet trip to your house to tell you how you are causing climate change, cows farting also needs addressing btw

Different people, different needs. Its good to have that in mind. Enables good decision making.
I am using Ghost S1 computer case as I need a very small yet very capable computer.
Also I am very sensitive to noise.
10W less @ idle and medium load can make my system almost inaudible as 5600X setup was.

 

[Zach_01]

Different people, different needs. Its good to have that in mind. Enables good decision making.
I am using Ghost S1 computer case as I need a very small yet very capable computer.
Also I am very sensitive to noise.
10W less @ idle and medium load can make my system almost inaudible as 5600X setup was.

Sure noise can be a factor. I like a non audible system too.
But talking about idle or near idle temp it doesn't really make a difference if you set the fan curve slightly differently so you end up with the same rpm even with the extra 10 or 20W.
CPU will increase temp by a few degrees but its a non issue.
No one ever said officially that CPUs or GPUs need to idle at lowest possible temp.
Anything between 40-60C for 24/7 is normal and chips can run for many years.
Its us users that we build up those (almost paranoid) ideas and get obsessed with low temps under idle or near idle time.

 

[sp_00n]

I started to reasarch and think about lowering my tempreatures because after switching from 5600x to 7700 I have noticed significant inrease of noise output. Most annoying fact about my 7700 is that opening a browser or an email app or doing some other lightwieght tasks causes a fan to rapidly spin up. This is what I want to eliminate mostly.

 

[Zach_01]

I started to reasarch and think about lowering my tempreatures because after switching from 5600x to 7700 I have noticed significant inrease of noise output. Most annoying fact about my 7700 is that opening a browser or an email app or doing some other lightwieght tasks causes a fan to rapidly spin up. This is what I want to eliminate mostly.

That can be annoying yes.
It depends on the CPU cooler type, how noisy can be and at what rpm and also depends on the fan curve.
You can adjust the lower and of the curve to be more insensitive of temp change, start raising rpm after a certain temp point or/and inserting a time delay.
3-5 seconds delay(delta temp interval) can save some noise on those brief bursts of temp spikes.

As you can see below the fan curve is rather dull up to 56C
I dont use a Δ-Temp interval because the fans of my AIO are getting audible after 60-70%, at 65-68C CPU temp.
Not noisy, just audible.

 

[rubiconlexicon]

I started to reasarch and think about lowering my tempreatures because after switching from 5600x to 7700 I have noticed significant inrease of noise output. Most annoying fact about my 7700 is that opening a browser or an email app or doing some other lightwieght tasks causes a fan to rapidly spin up. This is what I want to eliminate mostly.

I just have my fan curve and temperature parameters set up to favour thermal throttling rather than annoying noise. I have my NH-D15 set to max out at 25% fan speed when the CPU goes above 80C (this is around 400RPM). On a moderate 24C day while running a game (thereby causing the GPU to output around 180W of heat into the case as well), I find that this fan speed is just enough to avoid thermal throttling, i.e. PPT remains the bottleneck rather than the 90C temp limit I have set. On a very hot day with 40C ambient temp it will probably thermal throttle slightly, but for me that is preferable over annoying levels of noise.

 

[AusWolf]

I started to reasarch and think about lowering my tempreatures because after switching from 5600x to 7700 I have noticed significant inrease of noise output. Most annoying fact about my 7700 is that opening a browser or an email app or doing some other lightwieght tasks causes a fan to rapidly spin up. This is what I want to eliminate mostly.

You need to adjust your fan ramp-up and ramp-down settings. Zen 4 is a tiny and extremely dense chip, the lowest load can cause a temperature spike that your fans don't necessarily have to react to.

 

[Waldorf]

Funny how some here question what others want (short of being useless/negative impact on the sys), or act like if "you" have to defend your position.

I prefer have low idle/low load power use, so i can then "waste" it on an oced system when gaming/encoding etc., and dont need 32T@+4GHz to browse,
ignoring that UV gpus seems to be going on for a while and being common, with virtually no one questioning it.

@rubiconlexicon
maybe think about using power plans?
(its easier for me since i have a UPS, and have the battery icon in the taskbar for fast profile switching)

i tweak the power savings one, by limiting the max cpu perf to 50%, it cuts down on clocks/voltage enough (and prevents spikes) so that i dont see more than 28-30C on idle,
30-34C for streaming/browsing etc, less if i dont run the heat.
and my 5950 isnt a decent chip, just doing max (stock) clocks needs close to max values (amd) rec for it.

 

[sp_00n]

how to work with SoC voltage on asrock boards? I only can set it to auto/enable/disable (OC). can change voltage in OC Tweaker.

 

[AusWolf]

how to work with SoC voltage on asrock boards? I only can set it to auto/enable/disable (OC). can change voltage in OC Tweaker.

I don't know about AsRock specifically, but if you enable OC, you should be able to set a manual value yourself.

 

[freeagent]

I can get my SoC wattage down a good amount, but I have to run if/mc at 1600 to do it..