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butchandmungo

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Hi

This is my first post on the forum but it has been a great resource over the years so many thanks for that!

Anyway i am intending on building a diy camper in a big transit (or similar) van later this year. This will have 12 vdc battery powering everything and solar panels to charge batteries.

I am looking for the ultimate efficiency gaming system to put into said van. Some of the games i play are; heavily modded starsector, total war: warhammer 3, battle brothers, mount and blade and underrail (and underrail 2 when that comes out!)

My initial idea is to run a 8500g on intergrated graphic on a b650 board, with the nicest ram i can find for a reasonable price. Psu will be a pico psu wired into a voltage regulator, which in turn will connect directly to the battery. This avoids any dc-ac-dc conversion losses.

Cpu will be undervolted as far as possible and ram with as tight timings as possible. These are something i would need to learn, but i have started watching buildzoid on yt to start that process.

Is this sensible or does anyone have a better idea to maximise performance. Any suggestions are very appreciated as its surprisingly difficult to find useful information about this particular use case online.

Many thanks :)
 
cant talk about m/igpu stuff (havent used/build with it in 10y), but seen it so many times (with different things) that the (next) bigger/faster thing would do better.
like me driving a 100 HP golf using 10l/100km while my fathers E55 with a 5L V8 would use the same amount at similar speed (hwy, 160-200km/h).
e.g. maybe 8700 and not have to use 100% resource to do tasks, instead of "maxing out" the 8500.

for the camper, havent looked at campers for a while, but maybe check VW/MB stuff with AWD? can come in handy when moving around.
many of the more newer/powerful solar stuff i have seen online seems to use 24V, maybe look into that as well.
 
I hate laptops.

The best they can ever be is mediocre conerning raw compute.

But try as you might, you can´t beat the new gen laptops concerning efficiency.

Buy a new latop and concentrate more on fixtures than DIYing some power guzzling mishmash.
 
@Carlyle2020hs
except many with campers have tvs, so a laptop would mean wasting money on a screen you dont really need.
money that could go towards "better/more" hw or other things.
 
You mean to tell me that a movable screen does not fit the theme of a movable home?

So you can park near a river but you cannot work outside near the stream on a big stone during a hot summers day?

Why bother with mobility if that´s not truly on the menue?
 
never said anything about that.
besides, i would rather use a tablet for anything "outside" having longer battery time and needing less time and/or power to recharge.

ignoring you probably will have to convert dc to ac to run/charge the latop, so it will probably negate at least some of the efficency.

and its not up to us what/how ppl wanna do things, but give advice/options, nor do we know if/what parts are already available, vs spending more just to get a laptop instead.

same way i wont tell someone to not get a pink bike for their kid/relative, just because i dont like the color or a different color thats cheaper, or it would be easier to give away/sell later on.
 
8500G is too weak for those games, you'll want a 8700G. Even then you won't be hitting 60 FPS stable.

Better yet a X3D and a VSync locked FPS RTX card undervolted.

Or just buy a laptop.
 
well, there is no mentionig of res or game settings used.
and res is still the biggest fps hit besides maybe RT.
 
hey man, I think that your build doesn't need to be that conservative on power, so I would recommend a graphics card. My go to for your situation would be a 1650, great performance, great energy consumption. But it all depends on your battery setup at the moment. It has a TDP of 75w, and it does fine on your motherboard, but I would make sure your batteries are enough. Also, great game recommendations you just gave me! Ill be checking out the underrail one!
 
Waldorf said:
cant talk about m/igpu stuff (havent used/build with it in 10y), but seen it so many times (with different things) that the (next) bigger/faster thing would do better.
like me driving a 100 HP golf using 10l/100km while my fathers E55 with a 5L V8 would use the same amount at similar speed (hwy, 160-200km/h).
e.g. maybe 8700 and not have to use 100% resource to do tasks, instead of "maxing out" the 8500.

for the camper, havent looked at campers for a while, but maybe check VW/MB stuff with AWD? can come in handy when moving around.
many of the more newer/powerful solar stuff i have seen online seems to use 24V, maybe look into that as well.
Click to expand...
I did consider the 8600g (8700g too expensive for my needs, really don't need all that cpu power), unless im missing something why not get the cheaper model if i am just going to downclock more capable one?

Unlike cars cpus don't quite wear out if driven at 100% compared to 70% for the same performance
Carlyle2020hs said:
I hate laptops.

The best they can ever be is mediocre conerning raw compute.

But try as you might, you can´t beat the new gen laptops concerning efficiency.

Buy a new latop and concentrate more on fixtures than DIYing some power guzzling mishmash.
Click to expand...
I am certainly not a fan of laptops either! The lack of upgrading and problems with heat buildup is quite the turnoff for me.

Also a laptop at the same compute as an equivalent desktop computer, would probably cost twice as much if not more.

You bring up a good point as maybe i am not looking for pure efficency. Perhaps more a price to efficiency balance is a better goal.
dgianstefani said:
8500G is too weak for those games, you'll want a 8700G. Even then you won't be hitting 60 FPS stable.

Better yet a X3D and a VSync locked FPS RTX card undervolted.

Or just buy a laptop.
Click to expand...
Yes you are right that i won't be hitting 60 hz with the 8500g, but the fact it draws approx 80w compared to more than double that with the 8700g it is a fair bit more efficient.

An rtx gpu on its own would probably draw 80w on its own, so that is kinda out of the question.
 
LowCacheMemory said:
hey man, I think that your build doesn't need to be that conservative on power, so I would recommend a graphics card. My go to for your situation would be a 1650, great performance, great energy consumption. But it all depends on your battery setup at the moment. It has a TDP of 75w, and it does fine on your motherboard, but I would make sure your batteries are enough. Also, great game recommendations you just gave me! Ill be checking out the underrail one!
Click to expand...
Nice one man :) yea really love underrail. Just be sure to check the forums for help at first, quite an unforgiving learning curve!

But yea you are right, i should probably have mentioned the battery capacity to begin with.
It'll most likely be a 250 to 300 Ah @ 12v lipo battery (depending on what deals i can find on aliexpress).

I have thought about the low power gpus, but they all have such low vram! I am unsure whether it would be enough, especially TW warhammer 3.
 
By the sounds of it a laptop is starting to look like one of the better options, but honestly i really wouldn't know where to start looking hardware and brand wise.

Does anyone have suggestions for laptops that aren't silly expensive? Or even just a general idea of what to look for would be great. My experience is very much not in the mobile side of hardware.
 
Notebookcheck.net
 
You don't need to be too much conservative on power consumption if you invest enough into your battery (converter and solar panels and other parts ofc). It's not like you're gaming 24/7 in a camper van... Solar energy system with decent (battery) capacity will give you enough power for everything you really need in a camper, like fridge, freezer, lighting, multimedia, etc.
 
dgianstefani said:
Notebookcheck.net
Click to expand...
Thanks :)

Veseleil said:
You don't need to be too much conservative on power consumption if you invest enough into your battery (converter and solar panels and other parts ofc). It's not like you're gaming 24/7 in a camper van... Solar energy system with decent (battery) capacity will give you enough power for everything you really need in a camper, like fridge, freezer, lighting, multimedia, etc.
Click to expand...
I think you are right. I did some back of napkin maths and the solar panels i've been looking at can charge approx. 180 ah per day over summertime in the uk.

The only issue is winter where that can drop as low as 45 ah per day, but that is still a fair bit to play with.

Think i am going to go back to the drawing board and think about the whole electrical system and what things will actually be drawing power. Then make a more informed decision about what power budget i have to run a rig with.

Thank you all for the advice. Really appreciate it!

Mik :)
 
What is your performance target? I ran TWWH 1 on a basic Intel iGPU and it was reasonably stable at 30 FPS. An 8500G should be sufficient for that.
 
butchandmungo said:
Thanks :)


I think you are right. I did some back of napkin maths and the solar panels i've been looking at can charge approx. 180 ah per day over summertime in the uk.

The only issue is winter where that can drop as low as 45 ah per day, but that is still a fair bit to play with.

Think i am going to go back to the drawing board and think about the whole electrical system and what things will actually be drawing power. Then make a more informed decision about what power budget i have to run a rig with.

Thank you all for the advice. Really appreciate it!

Mik :)
Click to expand...
And please do come back to show us what you did with the van, and ultimately what was your choice for a gaming rig. :)
 
@butchandmungo
it wasnt about engine load, but (fuel) efficiency at higher hwy speeds.

you sure you want lipos for storage? even a small 2Ah would turn your camper into a nordic steam bath with fireworks.
check for marine/car audio batteries that allow for deep cycle, something like AGMs (Optima).
also makes charging a little easier, as you dont need an expensive controller, and with agm no venting needed.

yellowtop
 
I agree with others that a laptop is the way to go for maximum total performance/Watt.

If you hate laptops, and want the flexibility of separate peripherals, take a look at the Minisforum AMD APU-based mini-PCs. They're not crazy powerful but they use laptop parts so they're way more efficient than building something like an 8500G on a desktop board.

I have some UM773Lite models which would probably do everything you want to do on a low budget. I use them behind wall-mounted TVs in meeting rooms and configure them down to 15W but they're pretty capable light gaming machines if you pick 35-45W cTDP in the BIOS.

The fastest newest model is their EliteMini AI370 using AMD's flagship notebook APU (Strix Point) and I can pick one up in the UK for £1029 with 32GB and 1TB SSD.

These miniPCs aren't really any different to laptops of similar spec, but the form factor and flexibility in peripherals might work for you in the camper van where a laptop doesn't do it for you.

dgianstefani said:
Notebookcheck.net
Click to expand...
Also Jarrod, he seems to cover more laptops than most people:

www.youtube.com

Jarrod'sTech

I make gaming laptop reviews & comparisons to help you pick the right tech! I aim to go the extra mile with detailed testing and accurate benchmarks, so if that sounds like the type of content you're interested in then join our community! I also run the gaminglaptop.deals website to help you...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

Jarrod's Tech - Laptop Reviews, Guides, Tips and News!

We cover everything you need to know about gaming laptops - from reviews, benchmarks, real world testing and more!
jarrods.tech jarrods.tech
 
butchandmungo said:
Nice one man :) yea really love underrail. Just be sure to check the forums for help at first, quite an unforgiving learning curve!

But yea you are right, i should probably have mentioned the battery capacity to begin with.
It'll most likely be a 250 to 300 Ah @ 12v lipo battery (depending on what deals i can find on aliexpress).

I have thought about the low power gpus, but they all have such low vram! I am unsure whether it would be enough, especially TW warhammer 3.
Click to expand...
Hey mate, I think that the 1650 should do just fine for Warhammer, check out this Vid!

.

The 1650 should not be underestimate lol.
 
Waldorf said:
@butchandmungo
you sure you want lipos for storage? even a small 2Ah would turn your camper into a nordic steam bath with fireworks.
check for marine/car audio batteries that allow for deep cycle, something like AGMs (Optima).
also makes charging a little easier, as you dont need an expensive controller, and with agm no venting needed.

yellowtop
Click to expand...
Stop confusing him!

Lipo is not a li-ion chemistry but merely a construction format the cell is made in. Since he will no doubt be forced to go Lifepo4 if he chooses lithium/lithium-ion, that is a fairly safe chemistry to use (from a fundamental chemistry level). No lithium 12V battery (Lifepo4) in offgrid apps goes up in fireworks.

Since he hasn't mentioned how long he will be offgrid or his power consumption you cant just recommend him any battery. AGM optima are not for real offgrid and are for 4x4ing and have a poor cycle life and size.

The AGM to go for is one with a cycle life of 1000-1500cyles to 50% depth of discharge.

What he needs to consider is:
1: first calculate his total power consumption,
2: realize he may very well need to shave off as much as possible,
3: how long will he be offgrid for at a time?
4: his battery and solar budget,
5: what chemistry? i.e space and weight considerations lead acid vs lithium,
6: how many days of runtime or how big should the battery capacity be? 1.5 days minimum? 5 days to give a nice big buffer in bad weather?
7: how to recharge the battery when it's cloudy for many days? Maybe add vehicle charging aswell.
8: due to limitations in solar efficiency and roof space, does he need portable panels aswell? as portable can be better focused at the sun.
9: understand the dangers of electrical faults and poor electrical work that can lead to fires.

As others have said a laptop is the way to go, you can take it outside on a park bench or have it on your bed etc. I would use an external monitor, keyboard and mouse for a dekstop setup too.
 
Lifepo4 is excellent. I have a 280 Ah with 8000 cycles at 80 DoD.

Ignore the haters.
 
dgianstefani said:
Lifepo4 is excellent. I have a 280 Ah with 8000 cycles at 80 DoD.

Ignore the haters.
Click to expand...
Is the math as simple as 1KW @ 240V = 4.17A, and 280Ah/4.17A = 67KWh? (minus some inverter losses, presumably)?
 
@9087125
you seem to be confused, maybe next time read the posts properly.
op talked about using lipo first, not me.

ignoring i never said to not use ANY lithium based batteries, or the fact that not every agm is the same, there are enough that are for deep cycling, incl a warranty that covers it,
and any lithium based battery (from rare exceptions) will still require a more sophisticated (read more expensive) charger vs other types.
 
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