eXtreme Outer Vision PSU Calculator Shutting Down :(

[physicsjunky]

on a very simplistic "all parts + 200W" level... sure. but in reality? not at all.
you can run a overclocked 600W 4090 on a cheap 850W PSU with two daisychained 8 pins but often not a stock ~335W 6950XT because it has transients like a electric chainsaw.
so a Corsair RM850X would not be recommended for a 4090 but for the 6950XT where the real world result would be the exact opposite.

I run a 7900 XTX full power (430W) most of the time on my RM850X. I've never seen it go past 700 watts with every RGB light on and fans/Pumps full speed, while benching the GPU with the CPU sipping power.
I would think the RM850X would be able to handle a 4090. On the other hand a 5090 would need a decreased power limit and UV.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I run a...

This thread is not about specific examples. It is about the eXtreme OuterVision PSU calculator site shutting down. Specific issues should go in separate threads.

Concerning PSU calculators,

Rule #1 - As mentioned before, a PSU calculator must NEVER ever recommend an underpowered PSU.

Also, while it may be an extremely rare event, a calculator (or users estimating PSU needs on their own) MUST always assume the possibility the CPU, GPU, RAM, motherboard, all drives, all fans/pumps, and all other expansion cards, USB devices, etc. will demand maximum power at the exact same point in time - regardless how remote that possibility may be. Why? See Rule #1.

 

[Dragokar]

Was there any talk between you guys about the hosting? Since the Enermax link is down.....or I am blind....

 

[Bill_Bright]

No, you are not blind. About the same time the domain name for https://outervision.com/ went up for sale, the Enermax site went down too.

As far as talks for someone taking over, I know I reached out to the staff there, and so did wiz - but to no avail.

It should be noted taking over would be much more than just hosting the site. With new graphics cards, CPUs, RAM and more coming out all the time, researching and keeping the site and calculator databases current with accurate information was very time consuming. If not a full time job, it still would be a very time consuming part-time commitment.

 

[Kdub-99]

This should never have been allowed. If it comes back up, everything will be based on Enermax products.

 

[Bill_Bright]

If it comes back up, everything will be based on Enermax products.

No it won't. That's not how PSU calculators work.

The power requirements of this Intel CPU or that NVIDIA GPU, or this Samsung SSD or that WD hard drive, or this Crucial DDR5 or that Corsair DDR4 have absolutely nothing to do with the company that owns the calculator. The resulting power requirements will be based on the sum of the power requirements of inputted components. If the sum of the demands was, for example, 372W, the calculator reported 372W. Then the calculator recommended a "minimum" supply size that was a little bigger, for example, 425W. The calculator itself did not recommend a brand or model, just a minimum size.

The brand name on the calculator was not a factor. There is no reason that would change if Enermax took over.

The recommended "minimum" supply size would remain the same. What would likely change is simply the "suggested" PSU will an Enermax model. This is no different from before when typically an EVGA model was "suggested" - since EVGA was an advertiser on the site. Regardless, the resulting calculation totals does not change just because the sponsor/owner/advertiser changes. I note other brands like Seasonic and CoolerMaster also advertised there. That did not affect the calculator's results.

My worry with Enermax (or anyone, for that matter) taking over is they may not be as diligent as OuterVision was at researching new components as they were released and keeping the databases current with the latest hardware. I also worry they may cut some of the hardware categories, thus limiting the calculator's flexibility. It was the OuterVision calculator's extensive databases, and the full time staff keeping them current that made the eXtreme OuterVision calculator not only unique, but by far, the most valuable and accurate. No other comes closed. It is missed.

 

[9087125]

Since 2006, this has been the one and only PSU calculator out there worth using.

Please provide evidence or some reasoning for your assertion, from many peoples vantage point they have no way of knowing if you are legit or if you have no idea what your talking about . Remember people are failable and their word of mouth isn't always accurate.

The eXtreme OuterVision Calculator has been the most inclusive, most conservative and most flexible calculator. And that is what made it the most accurate and the only one worth using.

Yes that is a restatement of the above previous assertion.

and the only one worth using.

that does not follow because it is unsound, who's criteria of worth are you even appealing to????? There is more to PSU choice than simply having it's size as accurate as possible. Like grade, warrenty perioid, aesthetics.

It was the best because their team of researchers on staff constantly researched components for us - keeping their extensive databases accurate and current.

G14 classified? Thats a good one.

This allowed us to enter the widest range and variety of possible components to accurately calculate our needs - rather than guess.

This commits the fallacy of false binary. Your erroneously asserting that you either do it well and right, or you do it poor. Ignoring that in reality there are more ways to go about it.

Or rather than use, for example, a graphics card suggestion based on some arbitrary setup.

This commits the fallacy of red herring, something that is irrelevant to distract the reader and that which is easier for you to argue from. What is this "graphics card setup" you speak of? You have just pulled that out of thin air. Do you even understand how PC building works? You got documented power figues all over the place, in manufacturer literature and reviews. Where are you getting this"graphics card setup" from? Just a distraction planted on your part.

Or rather than just pick a huge supply we didn't need.

Another false binary... How on earth do you know you don't need it? The future is unknown and can change in the blink of an eye from hardware failures, changes of the mind etc. Your presenting the situation as black and white and implying the user can know exactly what they want in the furture-an impossible and ridiculous notion.

But the OuterVision PSU Calculator, being the most conservative, added just a "little" extra headroom for future upgrades, but not so much extra that it suggested a supply what was WAY too big and a waste of our money.

You are soo concerned with no wastage, and THEN, you accept a littlle extra?????

added just a "little" extra headroom for future upgrades,

Ok now you are really showing you don't understand how PC building works. Hilarious! You do realize that dennards scaling has died right? That we are almost out of transistors? You do realize that as time goes on GPUs and ICs are getting more and more hungry and more and more hot?????? So you clearly don't wan't to have a big PSU but you wan't to add a "little"....wait for it...for future upgrades?????
In order to show why this is so completely wrong and biased. My AM5 system has the 4080super and a massive 1300W PSU, the gpu draws near 300watts under heavy loads with path tracing in games. Such a system will need to be upgraded ovetrtime if i wan't to stay on this windows and play newer games, for obvious reasons. If I was to go to the 5090 or 6090 (a very standard practice in gaming and productivity) that PSU will be a sensible sizing indeed. But according to your methods, the user will be very disappointed in learning they need to upgrade their PSU and that rats nest of cabling. When they could have just choose a much more sensible PSU from the start. Whether gaming or productivity, upgrades are always on the table, even more than ever in todays age with prices. Again, just because you build systems a certain way, doesn't make yours the only way and thats what your implying here with your posts. When designing a powerful machine, one often has to look far into the future and use oversized hardware.

but not so much extra that it suggested a supply what was WAY too big and a waste of our money.

Again, thats your biased unsound arrogant view.

eXtreme PSU Calculator also suggested a UPS size - a nice touch.

More unsound nonsense! First, have you ever heard of a wattmeter and ohms law calcs? How on earth do you recommend a UPS size without knowing what the user is doing during the disruption, what their desired lifespan for the battery is, and what type of battery it has??????? Good greif!

I know there are some that scoffed at the idea of using a PSU calculator - and that's fine for those who already know how to properly research all their components, and would rather do all that research themselves.

Oh you are soo transparent. Your telling us that in a world were we have to do insane amounts of research into each and every product, sometimes spanning months and months that the user can't just do a tad we bit of math?

Plus, I'm no spring chicken. I'm on my 3rd retirement (24 years USAF, 10 years Northrop Grumman IT, 19 years my own shop) and enjoy doing things at my own pace.

Yes you have made it very clear you like to brag about your credentials every chance you get, and that you are on the forum largely to belittle people to feel superior. This here is another red herring and an appeals to authority. it don't matter how many years and what skill set you have, you don't make sound arguments from appealing to accomplishments. So if your such a legend than tell us why you couldn't simple make the calculator yourself? Thats what many people do through spreadsheets or programing.

Also, while it may be an extremely rare event, a calculator (or users estimating PSU needs on their own) MUST always assume the possibility the CPU, GPU, RAM, motherboard, all drives, all fans/pumps, and all other expansion cards, USB devices, etc. will demand maximum power at the exact same point in time - regardless how remote that possibility may be. Why? See Rule #1.

And here you have just proven you really can't make an argument nor keep track of your arguments. Yes that is actually correct, the PSU must take into consideration the maximum demand of all components, which means even transients, which is exactly why your idea of precise sizing is bogas. If your sizing takes into account these, then it must follow the PSU is hugely oversized which would undermine your orginal premise that it was important to prevent wastage.




This thread was a laugh. For anyone else who is open minded, you don't need a calculator, thats nonsense. What this biased antiquated guy isn't telling you is you often wan't an oversized PSU for future upgrades and having a larger sized PSU helps in reliability as opposed to running the unit near it's limits.

I must confess, I have been building PCs since the early 2000s and have never heard of a PSU calculator. If only I had of know... would have helped me soo much

 

[R-T-B]

Regardless this is a thread about that calculators closure, take personal issues elsewhere please.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Wow. Really sad your self-esteem is so pathetic that you feel to boost your ego you must join a thread and launch personal insults. Sad you couldn't instead, maturely debate the technical facts. I pity you.

Did you bother to notice that TPU's owner/Admin attempted to contact the owners of that calculator in order to take over and maintain it here? Or that 20+ other site members "Liked" his proposal? Did you notice out of all the other participants in this thread that only you think it "a laugh" and "nonsense"?

So then by you, 9087127 is right and everyone else is wrong - yet you say I'm arrogant??

Please provide evidence or some reasoning for your assertion, from many peoples vantage point they have no way of knowing if you are legit or if you have no idea what your talking about .

What difference does it make now? They are shut down.

Nevertheless, did you bother to actually read what I said, or are you just cherry picking points to argue about and toss out personal insults? I mean you even quoted me when I explained the reasoning.

As for me being legit, I'd say my 19 years and 14,000+ posts on this site suggests I might be helpful. The staff surely would not let me stick around if I was prone to giving bad advice, nor would I have received 11 MVP awards for my contributions expressly for helping people. Folks, and you can see for yourself if I might be legit and have a clue about electronics by following the link in my signature - where I also post my real name and real image too.

FTR, I post my credentials, not to brag but so folks can see for themselves if I might know a little about electronics and, hopefully, trust I will not intentionally lead them astray - instead of hiding behind a fake name and avatar. It, again, is certainly is not to brag for there are many eminently more qualified than me, some on this site, some who trained me, some who mentored me over the years.

What is this "graphics card setup" you speak of?

which is exactly why your idea of precise sizing is bogas.

Gee whiz dude! Can't you even quote accurately? And then why do you make false claims based on your false, made up quotes? Pretty sad.

NO WHERE did I say "graphics card setup" yet twice your falsely claimed I did! You misquoted me, then claimed I was wrong. That's dishonest!

Read it again. I said graphics card makers suggest PSU sizes based on some arbitrary setup. And why do they do that? Because they have no clue what CPU we have, our drives, our fans, our RAM, other attached devices, etc. Sorry you don't understand that.

And I NEVER suggested "precise sizing". I even explained how, and why this calculator was conservative in its recommendations while ensuring it did not suggest an underpowered PSU. Sorry you don't understand that either.

I did say this calculator is the most accurate. And that is true. If you obviously didn't lack experience with it, you would know this calculator listed two values; its calculation totals and its size recommendations. You would see they were not the same and you would know and understand why they were different. I guess ignorance is bliss.

What this biased antiquated guy isn't telling you is you often wan't an oversized PSU for future upgrades

And there's another of your falsehoods. Why post lies everyone can see are not true? Really sad you feel you have to make things up. I first mentioned future upgrades in post #1. Then noted at least twice again that users can easily add extra headroom for future upgrades in post #5 and again in post #20.

Biased? Yes, or course! I was very clear I liked this PSU calculator the best, by far.

There is more to PSU choice than simply having it's size as accurate as possible. Like grade, warrenty perioid, aesthetics.

Wow. Sorry dude but it is you who clearly does not understand the purpose for this thread, or even why one might want to use a PSU calculator.

You might also want to read the last paragraph of my first post.

Aesthetics? Shame on PSU calculators for not taking aesthetics into consideration when recommending PSU sizes. Yes, that PSU sure is pretty so clearly it must be the better choice.

I must confess, I have been building PCs since the early 2000s and have never heard of a PSU calculator.

Sorry but I cannot account for your obvious lack of experience or knowledge. PSU calculators have been around longer than you claim to have been building computers. Way back in the day, Antec's was the first I was aware of. But they switched to a licensed version of OuterVisions, now off-line too.

Next time you don't like someone's thread, instead of launching a puerile tirade consisting personal insults, misquotes, and false claims, maybe just report it to the staff and let them decide. That said, considering TPU's owner and chief admin participated in this thread, not sure you would have got anywhere.

Now if you want to discuss the topic of the eXtreme OuterVision PSU calculator going away, great! Otherwise, moving on. Have a good day.