12600KF high latency

[droopyRO]

If overclocking was dead, you and @Ruru wouldn't be doing it, but you're at 5.1ghz from 4.6ghz all core and he's rocking 200mhz boostage. It honestly sounds like, people do overclocking all the time and just simply live in denial about it. Soon as you flick XMP to enabled, you've overclocked.

You assume i keep it that way. Yes it can do 5.1-5.2 but no way i keep it like that except some quick tests. Double to triple power consumption and temps for single digit performance gains, yeah, overclocking is dead My 8600K could do 4.7Ghz with a minimal power and temperature increase, my 3770K could do 4.3 also with minimal power and temp. increase. This modern Intel chips are pushed so hard from the factory that is barely any room left for OC.

For 24/7 i keep my 12600K default with -0.025V.

Our point was that the old-school manual tinkering with increasing multipliers, fine-tuning bus clocks, high voltages etc. is practically dead.

Exactly.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

You assume i keep it that way. Yes it can do 5.1-5.2 but no way i keep it like that except some quick tests. Double to triple power consumption and temps for single digit performance gains, yeah, overclocking is dead My 8600K could do 4.7Ghz with a minimal power and temperature increase, my 3770K could do 4.3 also with minimal power and temp. increase. This modern Intel chips are pushed so hard from the factory that is barely any room left for OC.

For 24/7 i keep my 12600K default with -0.025V.

Exactly.

These are only dead for individuals like you, ruru, and many other individuals.

But OC isn't dead. It's just not popular anymore.

Myself, as an individual still enjoys high overclocks. And yes some exotic cooling.

6.5ghz/5ghz/5ghz.

 

[droopyRO]

But OC isn't dead. It's just not popular anymore.

The key word you are missing is "practically".
As in, it's not worth it for gains for 24/7. Yes, ofcourse you can get whatever liquid cooling open the window in the coldest winter month and blow an ice spell on it, to get the max frequency and a benchmark run. But those are not what i want and look for.

Also, you guys are still using wprime ? i had forgotten it existed In the Core2 era i was using it a lot to test whatever CPU's i had at that time. Since i was swapping them every 2 months or so, E2140, 4300, 6600, 8400, Q6600 etc.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

The key word you are missing is "practically".
As in, it's not worth it for gains for 24/7. Yes, ofcourse you can get whatever liquid cooling open the window in the coldest winter month and blow an ice spell on it, to get the max frequency and a benchmark run. But those are not what i want and look for.

Also, you guys are still using wprime ? i had forgotten it existed In the Core2 era i was using it a lot to test whatever CPU's i had at that time. Since i was swapping them every 2 months or so, E2140, 4300, 6600, 8400, Q6600 etc.

Yes, prime is used quite a bit.

If you use Prime95 for burn in, you're still using prime digits. But in that case, it's a benchmark!! Neat!!

Would you rather see something else?

 

[Raffles]

OK, so you purchased the most bottom end motherboard with EOL memory support and got disappointed. Honestly, that's a buy first and research later approach. In fact, I would be keen to suggest you ditch DDR4 on 1700 platform because Alder/Raptor Lake processors are memory bandwidth starved and really perform better on DDR5 up to, in some cases, 20%.
Otherwise,
Once you get your board in, we'll help get it right. No worries

Unless you spend most of your time compressing stuff, there seems to be shockingly little uplift from DDR5, according to TechPowerUp's own tests.

DDR4 offers 96% of the application performance, and 99% of the game performance.

DDR4 vs. DDR5 on Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Review

The Intel Alder Lake platform has support for both DDR5 and DDR4 memory. We ran 38 application benchmarks and 10 games at multiple DDR4 configurations to learn what performance to expect when using DDR4 vs. DDR5 on 12th Gen, and whether there's a point at which DDR4 performance can beat the much...

www.techpowerup.com

DDR4 vs. DDR5 on Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake Review

The Intel Alder Lake platform has support for both DDR5 and DDR4 memory. We ran 38 application benchmarks and 10 games at multiple DDR4 configurations to learn what performance to expect when using DDR4 vs. DDR5 on 12th Gen, and whether there's a point at which DDR4 performance can beat the much...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[guily6669]

You assume i keep it that way. Yes it can do 5.1-5.2 but no way i keep it like that except some quick tests. Double to triple power consumption and temps for single digit performance gains, yeah, overclocking is dead My 8600K could do 4.7Ghz with a minimal power and temperature increase, my 3770K could do 4.3 also with minimal power and temp. increase. This modern Intel chips are pushed so hard from the factory that is barely any room left for OC.

For 24/7 i keep my 12600K default with -0.025V.

Exactly.

That's still weak but depends on the silicon lottery too...

My 2600K was at 4.9ghz and climb a few gens in performance (I used it 4 like 11 or 12 years and only after that time 1 core burned but it still works setting 3 cores in bios).

My 8700K was at 5.0ghz all cores up to max of 5.2ghz for dual core and 4.9ghz ring.

But I had a used 3700K that I delidded and could only get 4.5ghz and worse scores than my 2600K...

About my 12600KF sadly I don't think it will OC much mostly because of my air cooler

 

[droopyRO]

That's still weak but depends on the silicon lottery too...

You missed this part in my post

with minimal power and temp. increase

Those frequencies were for 24/7. At that moment in time when the warranty went out, i delided both CPU's and put liquid metal on them. The 8600K can do 5.1Ghz all core, and i don't remember how far i pushed that 3770K it's been years since i used it.

 

[guily6669]

Finally got the board today and installed it + drivers and whatever...

Spoiler: photo of it

Now I could bump the ram to 4000 from 3800 on the other board, still can't get anywhere close to the 4400 rated of the kit (instead I dropped timings slightly)


For now I have 4.9 ghz all P-cores and 4.0ghz all E-cores but in burn-in test like OCCT my cooler goes puff it instantly goes to 80Cº in a second and soon after reach 90Cº which I put the thermal throttling at that temp, really needs liquid metal cause it wouldn't jump to 80Cº in a second like this grrrr...

However I'm having a ton of issues with ring ratio, I can only get 4.3ghz for now and the whole computer is still unstable, OCCT throws CPU errors, but I still haven't really fully tested it, have to test mem all night too first to see if it's affecting and likely is the ring ratio that's causing CPU errors cause at 4.4ghz it throws errors right away and then BSD...

Any idea how can I push Ring ratio higher in the best way and still also having good power saving (I just tested Ring 4.5ghz with even 1.4v CPU core voltage manual and no OC other than the ram and still unstable OMG).

I also have increased Ring PLL voltage to 1.1v if I remember well and CPU input voltage is at 1.7v if I remember well.

On the ram I'm using BCLK to Dram 100:133, can't get 4000 MTs with 100:100.

ps: The mem bandwidth on the CPU increased like crazy and its likely that the Ring ratio OC helped a lot and not just the cores OC...

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Finally got the board today and installed it + drivers and whatever...

Spoiler: photo of it

Now I could bump the ram to 4000 from 3800 on the other board, still can't get anywhere close to the 4400 rated of the kit (instead I dropped timings slightly)
View attachment 398945

For now I have 4.9 ghz all P-cores and 4.0ghz all E-cores but in burn-in test like OCCT my cooler goes puff it instantly goes to 80Cº in a second and soon after reach 90Cº which I put the thermal throttling at that temp, really needs liquid metal cause it wouldn't jump to 80Cº in a second like this grrrr...

However I'm having a ton of issues with ring ratio, I can only get 4.3ghz for now and the whole computer is still unstable, OCCT throws CPU errors, but I still haven't really fully tested it, have to test mem all night too first to see if it's affecting and likely is the ring ratio that's causing CPU errors cause at 4.4ghz it throws errors right away and then BSD...

Any idea how can I push Ring ratio higher in the best way and still also having good power saving (I just tested Ring 4.5ghz with even 1.4v CPU core voltage manual and no OC other than the ram and still unstable OMG).

I also have increased Ring PLL voltage to 1.1v if I remember well and CPU input voltage is at 1.7v if I remember well.

On the ram I'm using BCLK to Dram 100:133, can't get 4000 MTs with 100:100.

ps: The mem bandwidth on the CPU increased like crazy and its likely that the Ring ratio OC helped a lot and not just the cores OC...

Cpu v-core auto.
CPU LLC starts at Lvl 4 for for OC.
Prefer Lvl 5 for better stability.
Yes it'll run hot as hell.
MCE enabled = power limits lifted = hot as hell
MCE enabled = ICC Max Amps limits lifted = hot as hell
Cache v-core droop is too heavy or just not high enough in general.

You are thermal restricting a power lifted CPU in short....

 

[guily6669]

Cpu v-core auto.
CPU LLC starts at Lvl 4 for for OC.
Prefer Lvl 5 for better stability.
Yes it'll run hot as hell.
MCE enabled = power limits lifted = hot as hell
MCE enabled = ICC Max Amps limits lifted = hot as hell
Cache v-core droop is too heavy or just not high enough in general.

You are thermal restricting a power lifted CPU in short....

Yeah but when testing ring, I tried with 0 OC which is thermally totally fine, even put ram to bios jedec, windows always BSOD with image completely distorted.

Maybe my CPU got a bad ring on the silicon lottery

Anyway the board went kapuff, bios is gone and it's a pain to fix as it uses the bios between 2 chips 1x64MB and 1x128MB.

I have the programmer but not the clips neither hot air station to desolder them, will try on a store Monday to see if they can flash it...

Ps: I'm using level 4 load-line calibration but will try level 5 when I can get the board back up running.

 

[Carlyle2020hs]

Isn´t CPU input voltage supposed to be 1.8v ?
This is the very first time i see somebody lowering it to 1.7 .

 

[guily6669]

Isn´t CPU input voltage supposed to be 1.8v ?
This is the very first time i see somebody lowering it to 1.7 .

That's around what I was using last on auto was around that, but I have read on Google for 12600KF max safe voltage is supposed to be 1.72v, no idea...

I can increase it later when I have the board working to see if it makes any difference...

 

[Carlyle2020hs]

Bit of a mixup of knowledge on your part i think.

That 1.72 number you remember has nothing to do with this setting.

CPU input voltage and its values do not appear in any under- or overclocking guide. (As far as i know)

Set the CPU input voltage back to auto please.

At least as long as you need diagnostic help.

 

[guily6669]

Bit of a mixup of knowledge on your part i think.

That 1.72 number you remember has nothing to do with this setting.

CPU input voltage and its values do not appear in any under- or overclocking guide. (As far as i know)

Set the CPU input voltage back to auto please.

At least as long as you need diagnostic help.

It was on auto at last time and still wouldn't work to get higher Ring with mems to jedec 2133 and 0 OC and load line calibration to 4 and ring pll voltage to like 1.1 to test and 0, nothing works.

Anyway I don't have the board working at the moment so can't test further for now until I fix it's bios

 

[guily6669]

Sorry for double post but new info...

I have the board back and running.

Still can't get no way stable more than 4.3 ghz ring ratio.

I'm on windows 10 so can't also use the Intel Application Optimizer which seem to do incredible job specially with 14900K on some games but only works on wind11, don't even know why Asus put that driver in the windows 10 driver list...

Should I just disable all E-cores and go for maximum ring or should I stick with 4.3ghz ring and push E-cores and P-cores to the max I can???

ps: With the E-cores disable on benchmarks and maybe some workloads it loses quite a lot of performance...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: I think I got bad silicon lottery with this 12600KF, thought I could easily do 5.2 ghz on auto voltage or slightly higher with load line calibration on 4 or 5 but nop...

Currently I have 4.0ghz all E-cores and 5.2ghz all P-cores with load line calibration maxed out to level 7 (6 insta crash on burn in test) and a offset + voltage of 0.05v currently.

Ring PLL voltage is at 1.11V and CPU current set to 130%.

Anyway it thermal throttles in just a few seconds anyway (set to 90Cº), but should be fine for gaming which I play only demanding games that the CPU usage is mostly always low, still need further stability testing though...

 

[guily6669]

Sorry for tripple post, anyone here has a Asus Z690 TUF no matter the model that has VF voltage curves and additional turbo voltage working?

No matter what mine applies but never does anything, I'm on latest bios 4101, also reported to Asus.

In case your is working what bios version do you have???