Missing capacitor help MSI Z97 PC Mate

[ajcardiac]

I recently sourced the above Motherboard.

It POSTS fine and boots to Windows 11. I plan to add Linux Mint soon.
There is a missing Capacitor as per the images attached.
Does anyone know how I would find info on the capacity/size and/or what function that capacitor serves please?
My first guess was for the audio codec. Sound from the Mobo back panel audio jacks seems fine.

Thanks for looking and any other sage advice welcome.

 

[Hugis]

This it?
Taken from a H97 PC Mate.

H97 칩셋의 깔끔한 구성! MSI H97 PC 메이트 웨이코스 : 다나와 DPG는 내맘을 디피지

안녕하세요 이번에 살펴볼 제품은 MSI H97 PC Mate 메인보드 입니다. H97 칩셋의 ATX 타입의 메인보드로 무난하게 사용이 가능한 제품으로 예상되며 현재 10만원 초반대에 가격이 형성되어 있어 어떠한 CPU를 사용하더라도 적절하게 시스템 조합이 가능할 것으로 보입니다. 지금부터 제품을 살펴보도록 하겠습니다. 제품명 MSI H97 PC 메이트 웨이코스 A/S 기간 무상 3년 제조사(유통사) MSI, 웨이코스(http://www.waycos.co.kr/) 가격(최저가) 95,500원(작성일 기준)...

dpg.danawa.com

 

[50eurouser]

Solid 100uF 16V cap, the circuit there is the audio codec. Well it works now even with one missing cap so its not that critical. It would be easier if u can salvage such a cap from another dead board. 100uF 16V is a very common value.

 

[ajcardiac]

This it?
Taken from a H97 PC Mate.

H97 칩셋의 깔끔한 구성! MSI H97 PC 메이트 웨이코스 : 다나와 DPG는 내맘을 디피지

안녕하세요 이번에 살펴볼 제품은 MSI H97 PC Mate 메인보드 입니다. H97 칩셋의 ATX 타입의 메인보드로 무난하게 사용이 가능한 제품으로 예상되며 현재 10만원 초반대에 가격이 형성되어 있어 어떠한 CPU를 사용하더라도 적절하게 시스템 조합이 가능할 것으로 보입니다. 지금부터 제품을 살펴보도록 하겠습니다. 제품명 MSI H97 PC 메이트 웨이코스 A/S 기간 무상 3년 제조사(유통사) MSI, 웨이코스(http://www.waycos.co.kr/) 가격(최저가) 95,500원(작성일 기준)...

dpg.danawa.com

View attachment 399877

Thanks. I will get a more clear image.
Well, I'm stupid. I thought the text was Chinese, but I was reading it sideways. Duh.

Solid 100uF 16V cap, the circuit there is the audio codec. Well it works now even with one missing cap so its not that critical. It would be easier if u can salvage such a cap from another dead board. 100uF 16V is a very common value.

Thanks. Yes, I can see now I am not reading sideways and making a bad assumption.
I will check my old boards.

Could you estimate the difficulty skill in replacing the cap for someone with no soldering experience and perhaps recommend a low-cost soldering iron?

 

[Bill_Bright]

It POSTS fine and boots to Windows 11.

Sound from the Mobo back panel audio jacks seems fine.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Does it look like there used to be one there but has been removed? You should be able to tell by looking at the underside of the board. If there used to be a component there, the mounting holes and solder will look mess, perhaps even evidence of heat. My point is, perhaps you are looking at two different "revisions" of the same model number and there is not supposed to be a cap there.

Could you estimate the difficulty skill in replacing the cap for someone with no soldering experience and perhaps recommend a low-cost soldering iron?

Removing/desoldering is typically the harder task but since you are not removing anything, mounting the capacitor is easy. The hard part is making sure you have the polarity correct - assuming, of course, it is the correct cap.

The trick to a good solder joint the first time is (1) ensure the iron tip is clean and tinned, (2) ensure the tip is fully pre-heated, (3) ensure there is a good mechanical connection between the device and the board, and finally, be quick and precise to make sure the mounting point and component lead are hot before touching solder to it. This ensures a quick and even flow preventing cold solder joints.

And of course, make sure you practice ESD precautions when handling the circuit boards.

Soldering is a skill and like all skills, to be good and proficient, it requires practice - even by experienced pros. So I strongly urge you to find an old electronics circuit board you are willing to sacrifice and practice removing and replacing devices.

The good news here is capacitors tend to be quite tolerant of heat as compared to many solid state devices such as transistors, diodes and ICs. Too much heat for too long will still destroy a cap, it just takes longer to do it compared to more sensitive devices.

As for recommending a decent iron, it is hard to go wrong with a Weller, even a budget one. However, if soldering might be something you will do in the future, "investing" a little more in quality tools today almost always pays dividends down the road. I would consider a soldering station, or even a full kit like this one.

 

[ajcardiac]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

Does it look like there used to be one there but has been removed? You should be able to tell by looking at the underside of the board. If there used to be a component there, the mounting holes and solder will look mess, perhaps even evidence of heat. My point is, perhaps you are looking at two different "revisions" of the same model number and there is not supposed to be a cap there.


Removing/desoldering is typically the harder task but since you are not removing anything, mounting the capacitor is easy. The hard part is making sure you have the polarity correct - assuming, of course, it is the correct cap.

The trick to a good solder joint the first time is (1) ensure the iron tip is clean and tinned, (2) ensure the tip is fully pre-heated, (3) ensure there is a good mechanical connection between the device and the board, and finally, be quick and precise to make sure the mounting point and component lead are hot before touching solder to it. This ensures a quick and even flow preventing cold solder joints.

And of course, make sure you practice ESD precautions when handling the circuit boards.

Soldering is a skill and like all skills, to be good and proficient, it requires practice - even by experienced pros. So I strongly urge you to find an old electronics circuit board you are willing to sacrifice and practice removing and replacing devices.

The good news here is capacitors tend to be quite tolerant of heat as compared to many solid state devices such as transistors, diodes and ICs. Too much heat for too long will still destroy a cap, it just takes longer to do it compared to more sensitive devices.

As for recommending a decent iron, it is hard to go wrong with a Weller, even a budget one. However, if soldering might be something you will do in the future, "investing" a little more in quality tools today almost always pays dividends down the road. I would consider a soldering station, or even a full kit like this one.

Thanks for the info. Pretty sure there is supposed to be a cap there as the legs appear to have been left behind.
I managed to take a more clear close-up as attached.

 

[Hugis]

If its still working i would not bother getting the soldering out to repair that, even if its an "easier" job.

 

[ajcardiac]

If its still working i would not bother getting the soldering out to repair that, even if its an "easier" job.

Yes, I am certainly leaning that way at the moment. Thanks.

 

[ty_ger]

I wonder what caused it to blow its top off. Either it exploded off, or someone ripped it off with purpose.

 

[Ware]

EZ fix if you have the part. It looks like it's right next to the sound chip. Is all the audio working correctly?

 

[Shrek]

Desoldering on a motherboard can be tough as the ground planes tend to sink heat.

 

[ajcardiac]

EZ fix if you have the part. It looks like it's right next to the sound chip. Is all the audio working correctly?

Not sure as yet as it is still on a test bench.
The rear audio ports seem to work fine.
I will be installing in a case later today, when the temperature has dropped a bit.
Will see if the HD audio via front panel connector works.

 

[Bill_Bright]

as the legs appear to have been left behind.

Legs? LOL Well, leads maybe.

Either it exploded off, or someone ripped it off with purpose.

I see no evidence of heat so I doubt it had anything to do with exploding caps. I also don't see any reason to purposely remove one - at least not in that manner.

So my assumption is something with mass was dropped on the board and knock the cap right from its leads.

Desoldering on a motherboard can be tough as the ground planes tend to sink heat.

I'm with Shrek on this one. The board, the circuit traces and the remaining lead segments would all absorb a lot of heat before the solder melted enough to pull the leads out. That could easily result in damage to surrounding circuit traces and the substrate layers of the motherboard.

"IF" I was intent on replacing the missing cap (and from here, I am not) I would simply solder the new cap's leads to the two leads sticking out. It might look a little Mickey Mouse but "in theory" it should work fine AS LONG AS the resulting length of the new leads did not alter the capacitance of the circuit so much that it significantly altered the electrical characteristics of the circuit.

 

[PowerBuilder]

The HDA codec works fine without audio capacitors. So having 3 solid capacitors is enough. And 100% all-solid capacitors will not explode. (Like the semi-solid OCRZ series capacitors, a 50% liquid 50% solid hybrid capacitor will expand at high temperatures and will not explode but will just swell up and become completely crushed.) The reason why one of the capacitors was removed is because it seems that someone grabbed the capacitor and ripped it off or it got caught on something and ripped it out. This is because only the body of the capacitor was ripped out while the connection point of the capacitor was left intact.

 

[jsfitz54]

If you decide to desolder and replace you may want to try this so you don't harm the traces: https://www.makeuseof.com/what-is-desoldering-wick-when-should-you-use-it/

 

[ty_ger]

So my assumption is something with mass was dropped on the board and knock the cap right from its leads.

That's crazy. The capacitor has little mass. The force required to break the friction bond of the seal sliding all along the full length of the leads, and shear the foil connection to the leads would be absolutely massive. You should have tons of broken solder connections and cracked ceramic capacitors. No way would just one capacitor pop off.

Solder a capacitor to a 1/4 steel plate and hit the back with a hammer. Let me know your results.

 

[VT1185MF_Rosaria]

If you still want to solder a cap properly to the audio codec capacitor section in the future, consider borrowing or getting a board preheater. It makes the job way easier as the motherboard ground planes will be hot and does not leech heat off the soldering iron.

 

[Harlow]

Desoldering on a motherboard can be tough as the ground planes tend to sink heat.

That's what I've found when "re-capping" old mobos. They can require a considerable amount of heat to melt the solder.

"IF" I was intent on replacing the missing cap (and from here, I am not) I would simply solder the new cap's leads to the two leads sticking out.

I've employed this method on three Panasonic hard disk video recorders (with DVD drives) where it's too much trouble to strip down the whole machine to access the back of the PCB.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

This is probably the best idea by far.

If you can't hear any difference on the audio outputs, why tempt fate? It's obviously not in series with an input or output, otherwise you'l lose that audio channel. It might provide decoupling or smoothing on a supply rail. If you check the part number of the codec, you can look up the standard circuit design.

The missing capacitor does serve a purpose. The manufacturer wouldn't waste hundreds of dollars fitting 20 cent capacitors to thousands of mobos for no good reason. Every component has to be costed and its presence justified when selling large numbers of boards.

Could you estimate the difficulty skill in replacing the cap for someone with no soldering experience and perhaps recommend a low-cost soldering iron?

Watch this video on the "simple" task of clearing solder from plated-through holes on a PCB. It should scare you off.

Sometimes you get lucky first time with a beefy temperature controlled soldering iron with a good reserve of heat. I use an ancient 50W Oryx with a medium bit and Soderwick. If you use too much force and heat when pressing down on the Soderwick, you can end up ripping the Copper pad off the board.

In the video, the use of a soldering iron, then a hot air workstation to preheat the board both failed, so the guy resorted to a sewing needle to clear the hole. I've used 0.4mm twist drill bits in a hand vice to clear holes of solder, but this can be risky if you drill off centre and remove too much plated through hole lining. It does save delaminating the pads using too much heat.

Budget on at least $30 for a good soldering iron and $80 to $200 for an optional hot air workstation. Ideally you need an ESD (antistatic) mat and wrist strap, some good quality Soderwick, 60/40 multicore solder, flux remover, tweezers and pliers. If all this sounds like overkill, consider the cost and hassle of buying a new mobo if things go wrong.

Alternatively, leave well alone.

Solder a capacitor to a 1/4 steel plate and hit the back with a hammer. Let me know your results.

Check out this video at 11 min 18 sec, showing brute force removal of a surface mount capacitor using a pair of pliers. A bit like a dentist extracting a tooth (apart from the use of a heat gun).

If you have a dead mobo, try knocking a capacitor sideways with your hammer. It might snap off easier than you think, if it's surface mount or the base is weak. If the previous owner of the OP's board damaged the capacitor, they might have finished off the job with a pair of pliers to "hide" the evidence. Who knows?

 

[Shrek]

That's what I've found when "re-capping" old mobos. They can require a considerable amount of heat to melt the solder.

I have had good experiences with the RadioShack desoldering tool

mainly because the tip has a hole and so one can heat around the capacitor lead.

 

[ty_ger]

That's what I've found when "re-capping" old mobos. They can require a considerable amount of heat to melt the solder.


I've employed this method on three Panasonic hard disk video recorders (with DVD drives) where it's too much trouble to strip down the whole machine to access the back of the PCB.


This is probably the best idea by far.

If you can't hear any difference on the audio outputs, why tempt fate? It's obviously not in series with an input or output, otherwise you'l lose that audio channel. It might provide decoupling or smoothing on a supply rail. If you check the part number of the codec, you can look up the standard circuit design.

The missing capacitor does serve a purpose. The manufacturer wouldn't waste hundreds of dollars fitting 20 cent capacitors to thousands of mobos for no good reason. Every component has to be costed and its presence justified when selling large numbers of boards.


Watch this video on the "simple" task of clearing solder from plated-through holes on a PCB. It should scare you off.

Sometimes you get lucky first time with a beefy temperature controlled soldering iron with a good reserve of heat. I use an ancient 50W Oryx with a medium bit and Soderwick. If you use too much force and heat when pressing down on the Soderwick, you can end up ripping the Copper pad off the board.

In the video, the use of a soldering iron, then a hot air workstation to preheat the board both failed, so the guy resorted to a sewing needle to clear the hole. I've used 0.4mm twist drill bits in a hand vice to clear holes of solder, but this can be risky if you drill off centre and remove too much plated through hole lining. It does save delaminating the pads using too much heat.

Budget on at least $30 for a good soldering iron and $80 to $200 for an optional hot air workstation. Ideally you need an ESD (antistatic) mat and wrist strap, some good quality Soderwick, 60/40 multicore solder, flux remover, tweezers and pliers. If all this sounds like overkill, consider the cost and hassle of buying a new mobo if things go wrong.

Alternatively, leave well alone.


Check out this video at 11 min 18 sec, showing brute force removal of a surface mount capacitor using a pair of pliers. A bit like a dentist extracting a tooth (apart from the use of a heat gun).

If you have a dead mobo, try knocking a capacitor sideways with your hammer. It might snap off easier than you think, if it's surface mount or the base is weak. If the previous owner of the OP's board damaged the capacitor, they might have finished off the job with a pair of pliers to "hide" the evidence. Who knows?

It's not surface mount. It's through hole and the leads are still there. At the base of the capitor there is a plug/seal pressed around the leads. And the leads obviously had foil layers atached to them. That was all sheered off.
Looks like it blew the top off or someone grabbed it and ripped the top off.

Knocking a surface mount component off is nothing at all like this. Not even close.

I think it blew the top off. That seems most logical. Definitely not someone hitting the ack side.



By the way, what's up with that mobo attachment method in the picture?

 

[Bill_Bright]

It's not surface mount.

By the true definition of the term, you are correct. It is not "surface mount". HOWEVER, the leads are pushed all the way through the holes so the component essentially sits right on the surface, thus preventing a pair of diagonal pliers getting in there to clip the leads.

The point being, it could not have intentionally be cut off.

 

[ty_ger]

By the true definition of the term, you are correct. It is not "surface mount". HOWEVER, the leads are pushed all the way through the holes so the component essentially sits right on the surface, thus preventing a pair of diagonal pliers getting in there to clip the leads.

The point being, it could not have intentionally be cut off.

Of course it wasn't cut off.

It wasn't knocked off by hitting the back of the motherboard either.

In my opinion, it is missing because:

Someone pulled it off. But not likely without intent. Maybe if was interfering physically with something?

It blew the top off due to over voltage. But not likely considering all the others are fine and nothing else was damaged.

It blew the top off due to faulty chemistry. But not likely considering all the others would come from the same supplier around the same time and what's the chance that they had a super small batch incorrectly manufactured or with chemical contamination?

It blew the top off because it was soldering by a robot with the polarity reversed. Most likely.


The odds of it failing due to a massive hit on the other side which broke nothing else is pretty much zero, in my opinion.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It wasn't knocked off by hitting the back of the motherboard either.

I don't see where anyone suggested that.

In my opinion, it is missing because:

Someone pulled it off. But not likely without intent.

I tend to agree with this because there does not appear to be any evidence of heat or other physical damage.

It blew the top off because it was soldering by a robot with the polarity reversed. Most likely.

This seems very UNlikely to me. For one, how would it blow off? It would have to be from extreme pressure, likely accompanied by heat, and there is no evidence of either.

While it may be possible, robots are commonly used, in part, because they consistently do NOT make mistakes. Capacitors are made specifically with physical and/or visual indicators of proper polarity and these robots have sensors specifically designed to use those indicators to position the components with the correct polarity. So the chances for the robot to mount it incorrectly are pretty slim.

Even if the cap had a manufacturing defect and was missing the indicator, it seems likely the robot, unable to determine polarity, would be programmed to reject that cap before mounting.

And if the cap was manufactured incorrectly with reversed polarity, it seems likely there would be 100s, perhaps 1000s of motherboards with such defects. A missing cap would just show up as an "open" and, if anything, shut down the circuit. A cap with reversed polarity would cause a "short" and surely disrupt the circuit (unless it blew up and then opened the circuit). Point being - if mounted backwards, I think MSI would have a motherboard recall issue. I don't see a robot making a one-off mistake.

So IMO, it was either knocked off accidentally by a careless user, or removed intentionally by a user for some reason - perhaps, as you noted, for clearance reasons.