• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.
  • The forums have been upgraded with support for dark mode. By default it will follow the setting on your system/browser. You may override it by scrolling to the end of the page and clicking the gears icon.

as an AMD fanboy, I gotta say Nvidia's multi frame gen is just lit, even at 1080p

Mostly because he hates anything Nvidia.
 
A quick review of your post history would say otherwise.. but sure. Bygones.
 
I can guarantee you: never before in history have we seen a situation this bad, where $2000–$3000 GPUs struggle to maintain a stable 60fps on high/max settings. And I’m not even talking about RT. So no, I don’t think it’s unfair to say that excessive gimmicks mask poor development practices and lead to underutilized hardware.

View attachment 400662
View attachment 400661

I've nothing to comment about Avowed, but Oblivion is an absolute mess. I can tell you from experience that using software lumen on low or hardware on ultra barely changes the frame rate on my PC, with the i9-13900KS and 5090. The only way to get a solid triple digit frame rate is to use DLSS performance, so the game internally renders at 1080p. Any higher and FPS becomes catastrophically bad.
 

Imagine building a 1080p high refresh rig and you drop $150 for 280hz 1080p monitor, and $299 for a rtx 5060 gpu that can do this with multi frame gen on: get the fuck out bruh, 12yr old me would be ecstatic

View attachment 400278

from what I understand multi frame gen high refresh looks/feels just as smooth as native high refresh

honestly nothing wrong with 23.8" high refresh 1080p gaming, i don't think i could enjoy 25" or 27" 1080p, but yeah i know most of us here are using higher resolutions, i'm just saying try to put yourself in a budget mindset, that's damn impressive for $299 (considering the market for 1440p high refresh or higher gaming is much much more expensive

cause this rig could even rock a used budget 5700x3d super cheap too. etc
I like 24 fps for that old film effect ;)
 
A quick review of your post history would say otherwise.. but sure. Bygones.
I've stated why I don't like them as a company, you should know that, but you always have to make things a brand war, anything for the agenda I guess.
Your personal attacks aside, I stand with my opinion on this topic. And given the cost of GPU's today we shouldn't have to settle for upscaling or frame gen, but it seems like some people can't handle criticizing a company for the stagnation and proprietary software they've pushed onto the entire market. I find it sad there has to be settling for 1080p when there should've been progress made to 1440p in the midrange market ,and by midrange I mean anything under $500 because I don't consider $800 as midrange no matter what kind of "but things cost more" defense people want to shield these companies with.
 
but you always have to make things a brand war, anything for the agenda I guess.
As oppose to you taking every available opportunity to dunk on "leather jacket man" and people in this forum that have anything positive to say about their products or negative to say about AMD, valid or not. The receipts are all there in your post history, like for example:

"I didn't take the lesson, "Defending Nvidia 101, how to unconditionally love the leather jacket man"
"They'll take every chance possible to bash on AMD while tiptoeing around actually criticizing Nvidia, it's all roses and sugar when it comes to team green"
"You were one of the people in the leather jacket club defending the 5060Ti"
"grabbing at straws to defend the leather jacket man"
"But the leather jacket followers will say it's all EVGA's fault"

Don't sit there and pretend you aren't perpetuating the brand war or that you don't have your own agenda.
 
Last edited:
And given the cost of GPU's today we shouldn't have to settle for upscaling or frame gen,
AMD uses AFMF and NVidia uses DLSS. These are both frame gen.
They also have scaling features.
AMD cards are locked down completely. Proprietary firmware and software. Pretty much the same for NV.
Your gripe now should be with both companies because they do similar shit.
You own only the video card. Not the bios firmware and software to run the card.
You agreed to these terms and conditions using AMD's/NVidia's software licensing agreements during installation.

10 years ago, the Titan X released at 1100$ as a flagship.
10 years later a 5090 is flagship 2000$ and is effectively 1000% faster (guesstimate number)

Really, I'm not sure you're sure if you're sure you know what you're arguing for, really??
 
Mostly because he hates anything Nvidia.
I'd just filter the opinion with a reasonable amount of salt then rather than throw it out completely.. thats how I tend to deal with most people on this forum since most people on this forum are loyalists to one company or the other more than people think.

Even I dabble a bit into supporting team red more than team green sometimes (not intentionally but I'm sure my post history could suggest that), but I try to not let my personal sentiments sway me so hard I become irrational like some here.
Doesn't mean I haven't dunked on both companies when I got the chance though. NVIDIA just makes more blunders as of late; and they're more interesting to dunk on because of that. I've dunked on AMD quite a few times, especially for the rumor about the 9060 XT being 450 USD at MSRP (good thing it wasnt, but still that price is just.. meh.)

Maybe it's just a misunderstanding of how the render processes work. Not that I'm any professional, but any type of firmware or software that can generate additional frame rates and utilizing the it's hardware better shouldn't be considered "Fake" when it's using resources to make it happen. This is my only argument looking at it from a bias perspective.
I avoid calling it fake personally because its not exactly true to call it fake. It's generating a new frame through AI rather than through the game being able to render a new frame however, so its still far from native in that regard. We all got a potential bias, eh? Nothing wrong with admitting it. :)

Why complain? Free FPS. Our technologies working at their finest. We should embrace it!
Its not exactly 'free' though, its got asterisks. Some wanna embrace, some dont. I personally would prefer native over everything because I think that stuff like frame gen and upscaling should be extra features rather than necessities like they can sometimes become (if upscaling has shown anything. Not too worried about frame gen being necessary since you know, it requires a good base framerate to get good results.)

Frankly, while the current state of game releases is incredibly poor, I would not want to pretend like it is a massive downgrade from some golden era of perfect optimization - AAA games usually run poorly comparatively to the state of hardware at the time of their release. We just feel that it has exacerbated now because hardware is getting progressively more expensive and games are progressively harder to run for less and less visual benefits. We have basically crossed the line of performance-visuals balance for classical raster graphics and now, well, the next big jump in fidelity is actual full on path-tracing. I don’t need to explain how hard to run THAT would be.
Frankly, I have long advocated for a freeze on the graphics race for developers, both for the sake of users and themselves, but that isn’t happening anytime soon.
Kind of my opinion personally, though I dont necessarily agree with everything; The graphics race is only really at the AAA level though, among indie games you dont see many super high level fidelty experiences unless they're mods for existing games or the games necessitate a reason to have them (walking simulators, story based games that wanna immerse you, etc.) for example
 
It's great the ghosting varies from engine to engine as well, X4 MFG on MH Wilds is barely noticeable whereas X4 in Wukong ghosts like crazy. X3 on both almost has 0 ghosting.

I am not sure why people are even using multiplayer games as a comparison, even phones can run those games MFG is completely irrelevant in those scenarios and aren't even supported by the ones that matter (Valorant/CS2 :P).

The downside I see is that developers themselves can turn on MFG x4 and go, okay that's enough optimization goodluck everyone. Then we all need x4 just to reach 60fps on their new engine, but this is speculation and hasn't actually happened yet.
 
I'd just filter the opinion with a reasonable amount of salt then rather than throw it out completely.. thats how I tend to deal with most people on this forum since most people on this forum are loyalists to one company or the other more than people think.
All I really hope for is for people to behave more reasonably, rationally and stop with childish name calling. Having a brand preference is fine, normal even, most if-not-all of us do and that's ok. What I've quoted above is not ok.
 
Its not exactly 'free' though, its got asterisks. Some wanna embrace, some dont. I personally would prefer native over everything because I think that stuff like frame gen and upscaling should be extra features rather than necessities like they can sometimes become (if upscaling has shown anything. Not too worried about frame gen being necessary since you know, it requires a good base framerate to get good results.)
That's what I mean about understanding it. Its not meant to lift FPS, its more about cleaning up tearing. Smoother render to the eyeballs. No, I don't believe frame gen to always be a necessity at all. Not all games are dx12_2 for example.

The Free fps wasn't meant to be serious.

These are not features? You can't turn off dlss? Back on again? I believe you can. Upscaling is totally disabled at default. This isn't something thats turned on all the time.

60fps at 4k Ultra on the best gaming titles isn't enough? This has never been a thing where a flagship was rendering top resolutions at 300fps. Is there an ghost expectation I'm not aware of??!!?!?!
 
Guys, can we please keep the personal attacks out of this thread? Thanks.
 
That's what I mean about understanding it. Its not meant to lift FPS, its more about cleaning up tearing. Smoother render to the eyeballs. No, I don't believe frame gen to always be a necessity at all. Not all games are dx12_2 for example.
For me the ghosting / latency is a bit too apparent for my eyes in the experiences I've had, FSR 3.1 FG and FG on a 4070Ti for a short time. I think when the technology warms up it will be better, I just worry that stuff like DLSS, Framegen, etc will become marketing weapons for NVIDIA's marketing department to use and portray it like its magic when it isnt. Again, just a me thing.

Is it impressive? For sure it is, but its kind of worrying to see NVIDIA portray it the way it does. But any company in their position would, so I cant really blame them.. I just think if we're gonna blast Intel for doing similar stuff with famous blunders such as comparing AMD to a snake oil salesmen, we should also rightfully call out other companies for the same sort of practices of being misleading (except actually misleading), which literally all of them have been once. No one gets a pass in my book, and I'm sure you understand that.

That, personally is why I think most people have a issue with NVIDIA right now. I think the MFG stuff and etc is a vocal minority.
The Free fps wasn't meant to be serious.
You can never be too sure these days on this forum.. I've seen some people make less serious sounding comments and fully mean it. Had to make sure, didn't mean anything towards you regarding it.
These are not features? You can't turn off dlss? Back on again? I believe you can. Upscaling is totally disabled at default. This isn't something thats turned on all the time.

60fps at 4k Ultra on the best gaming titles isn't enough? This has never been a thing where a flagship was rendering top resolutions at 300fps. Is there an ghost expectation I'm not aware of??!!?!?!
I don't have a problem with DLSS or Frame Gen on paper. Like I've mentioned before in other places, its how they're utilized and executed which matters. Upscaling has settled in and made its mark without being a dependcy thankfully, and frame gen due to how it works simply cant be. Don't understand the last point though as I havent mentioned anything about that in that regard. Most flagships do fall off after a year or so of new games coming out and thats to be expected really. Flagships are not meant to be good deals, afterall. But they are still serious at driving frames.
 
Can confirm, the game was notorious for running like absolute shit with it disabled. Frankly, while the current state of game releases is incredibly poor, I would not want to pretend like it is a massive downgrade from some golden era of perfect optimization - AAA games usually run poorly comparatively to the state of hardware at the time of their release. We just feel that it has exacerbated now because hardware is getting progressively more expensive and games are progressively harder to run for less and less visual benefits. We have basically crossed the line of performance-visuals balance for classical raster graphics and now, well, the next big jump in fidelity is actual full on path-tracing. I don’t need to explain how hard to run THAT would be.
Frankly, I have long advocated for a freeze on the graphics race for developers, both for the sake of users and themselves, but that isn’t happening anytime soon.
Yeah, new games aren't just running like crap, they don't look particular nice while doing it either. There was an interview on MLID from a "developer", what he said still echoes in my head. It was regarding optimization and 8gb of vram, and he said "we can make textures fit on 8gb of vram but it takes time so we just skip it - just buy more vram". Then he continued explaining how the traversal stutters will also eventually be solved by...you buying a faster CPU.

But yeah, goddamn it we need more vram so we can play games that look like games that use less, because why not.

EG1. There are many more games that run like crap on a 1080ti, and im not even talking about 4k, just old regular 1080p or 1440p.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, new games aren't just running like crap, they don't look particular nice while doing it either. There was an interview on MLID from a "developer", what he said still echoes in my head. It was regarding optimization and 8gb of vram, and he said "we can make textures fit on 8gb of vram but it takes time so we just skip it - just buy more vram". Then he continued explaining how the traversal stutters will also eventually be solved by...you buying a faster CPU.
Yeah, also not new, famously a Ubisoft PC port guy said about their port of, I believe, AC IV that if the game runs poorly, it’s easily fixable on PC - just by buying, and I quote, “a bigger GPU”. Or the famous deflection/cope that I think was first used by Rockstar for the disastrous GTA IV port - “of course our game runs poorly, it’s so advanced, it’s designed for future hardware”. Or, hell, recently Todd commenting on Starfield performance woes by just suggesting people upgrade, as obviously there could be nothing wrong with their ancient fucking engine stretched and stressed to its limits, no, the game was, in fact, “a true next-gen experience”. Sure. Next-gen in boredom maybe.
 
Yeah, also not new, famously a Ubisoft PC port guy said about their port of, I believe, AC IV that if the game runs poorly, it’s easily fixable on PC - just by buying, and I quote, “a bigger GPU”. Or the famous deflection/cope that I think was first used by Rockstar for the disastrous GTA IV port - “of course our game runs poorly, it’s so advanced, it’s designed for future hardware”. Or, hell, recently Todd commenting on Starfield performance woes by just suggesting people upgrade, as obviously there could be nothing wrong with their ancient fucking engine stretched and stressed to its limits, no, the game was, in fact, “a true next-gen experience”. Sure. Next-gen in boredom maybe.
Ah, yeah, starfield is literally - kid you not - unplayble on my g14 laptop. I turn everything to low, enable resolution scaling, it still drops to 35-40 fps.

It feels like to me that the heavier a game is (especially on vram), the worse it looks. Just check monster hunter, it legitimately has ps3 era textures yet its the game that struggles the most with 8gb of vram, its absolutely absurd. Meanwhile plague tale looks 6 times better and needs 4 to 5 gb of vram, lol
 
For me the ghosting / latency is a bit too apparent for my eyes in the experiences I've had, FSR 3.1 FG and FG on a 4070Ti for a short time.
This is an example of the subjective, personal preference side of things coming into play. It's a very important aspect of gaming and indeed of PC building & use. Everyone has they're own way of doing things. It's what makes PC's so great and also so very frustrating.
 
This is an example of the subjective, personal preference side of things coming into play. It's a very important aspect of gaming and indeed of PC building & use. Everyone has they're own way of doing things. It's what makes PC's so great and also so very frustrating.
This is why I choose to use the language "For me", rather than portray it as a universal problem (its like RT, some like it, some dont.) The way I look at it is that this sort of tech is only a net positive IF its utilized correctly.. or has been baked for long enough. Upscaling made its mark, RT, I'm sure soon will too. It's only a matter of time (give it a couple more generations I feel) before NVIDIA gets frame gen to a pretty good state to me anyway.

I always will personally prefer native but in slower singleplayer games I dont mind frame gen.
 
MFG feels like crap even on 2x if your base frame rate is low.
It doesn't "feel" better unless you didn't have a frame rate problem to begin with.
Not a good match for the 5060.
 
I'd just filter the opinion with a reasonable amount of salt then rather than throw it out completely.. thats how I tend to deal with most people on this forum since most people on this forum are loyalists to one company or the other more than people think.

Even I dabble a bit into supporting team red more than team green sometimes (not intentionally but I'm sure my post history could suggest that), but I try to not let my personal sentiments sway me so hard I become irrational like some here.
Doesn't mean I haven't dunked on both companies when I got the chance though. NVIDIA just makes more blunders as of late; and they're more interesting to dunk on because of that. I've dunked on AMD quite a few times, especially for the rumor about the 9060 XT being 450 USD at MSRP (good thing it wasnt, but still that price is just.. meh.)


I avoid calling it fake personally because its not exactly true to call it fake. It's generating a new frame through AI rather than through the game being able to render a new frame however, so its still far from native in that regard. We all got a potential bias, eh? Nothing wrong with admitting it. :)


Its not exactly 'free' though, its got asterisks. Some wanna embrace, some dont. I personally would prefer native over everything because I think that stuff like frame gen and upscaling should be extra features rather than necessities like they can sometimes become (if upscaling has shown anything. Not too worried about frame gen being necessary since you know, it requires a good base framerate to get good results.)


Kind of my opinion personally, though I dont necessarily agree with everything; The graphics race is only really at the AAA level though, among indie games you dont see many super high level fidelty experiences unless they're mods for existing games or the games necessitate a reason to have them (walking simulators, story based games that wanna immerse you, etc.) for example
Lets see how this stuff works when a network connection is disabled...
 
Lets see how this stuff works when a network connection is disabled...

Don't tell me you still believe this utter rubbish conspiracy theory that DLSS and its features require an internet connection
 
Back
Top