PBO 10x Scalar - Big Deal or Not?

[Pets4Ever]

I'm hearing conflicting things about using PBO with 10x Scalar. Some people say it is guaranteed to degrade your CPU and noone should use it. Other people say that the amount of added voltage is minuscule and there is nothing to worry about. Is there actually a consensus on this with facts to back it up?

 

[freeagent]

Why are you using scalar? There is literally no need to.

 

[_roman_]

I miss some information.

I assume it is about a amd mainboard. I hardly touched scalar with my b550 mainboard.

I think there are no long term values about that stuff. You may share which mainbaord and whihc processor. Or you may share if it is about a chat topic first please.

 

[rv8000]

Outside of understanding how the scalar alters voltage, there’s no reason to use it for day to day tasks 24/7 ocs. PBO already adjusts voltages based on the VF curve. There’s very little chance to get meaningful performance by messing with the scalar.

 

[Pets4Ever]

Why are you using scalar? There is literally no need to.

I'm trying to educate myself, can you explain why not?

 

[GerKNG]

used all CPUs with 10x all the time. Most CPUs gain like 15-20mv and with that a single boost step of a couple MHz under single core loads and nothing all core. but bigger number better... right?
i would not waste my time with PBO. max out the powerlimit and enjoy your CPU instead of dealing with random instability with Curve optimizer and tiny clock offsets that do absolutely nothing.

 

[Pets4Ever]

I miss some information.

I assume it is about a amd mainboard. I hardly touched scalar with my b550 mainboard.

I think there are no long term values about that stuff. You may share which mainbaord and whihc processor. Or you may share if it is about a chat topic first please.

My specs are below my username Not sure what you mean about chat topic.

used all CPUs with 10x all the time. Most CPUs gain like 15-20mv and with that a single boost step of a couple MHz under single core loads and nothing all core. but bigger number better... right?
i would not waste my time with PBO. max out the powerlimit and enjoy your CPU instead of dealing with random instability with Curve optimizer and tiny clock offsets that do absolutely nothing.

What about under-volting?

 

[AVATARAT]

I'm hearing conflicting things about using PBO with 10x Scalar. Some people say it is guaranteed to degrade your CPU and noone should use it. Other people say that the amount of added voltage is minuscule and there is nothing to worry about. Is there actually a consensus on this with facts to back it up?

The scalar does what is written into your bios, which is, the PBO will raise the maximum frequency, and the scalar is the time it will run at that frequency. Personally I never use it x10, but 5-7 or sometimes (after a reset of the bios I forget to set it sometimes and it runs x1 )

So yes, it can lead to degradation in the long run simply because you will be putting it in extreme conditions - daily!

After all, I've never hear of Ryzen degradation, and secondly, especially the single CCD chips are limited by AGESA to not be able to boost as much as the dual CCD versions, ie they have a lot of stock, so if degradation happens, you'll see it too late.

 

[rv8000]

I'm trying to educate myself, can you explain why not?

Read under the “AMD PBO2” section.

Raphael Overclocking: What’s New - SkatterBencher

Raphael is finally here and just like with every new generation, a new CPU means new overclocking features.

skatterbencher.com

 

[tabascosauz]

I'm hearing conflicting things about using PBO with 10x Scalar. Some people say it is guaranteed to degrade your CPU and noone should use it. Other people say that the amount of added voltage is minuscule and there is nothing to worry about. Is there actually a consensus on this with facts to back it up?

Scalar was never a consistent gain. Behavior depended wildly on your CPU sample, your board of choice, the AGESA in your choice of BIOS release, etc. Hence none of those people were automatically wrong. High scalar could be quite aggressive in terms of all-core freq within the Fmax envelope, but it could also do fuck-all; this was also way back in the day when even on 8-core parts there was a fair bit of a gap between Fmax and all-core freq. Boost behavior in general and the CPUs themselves has also changed quite a bit since Zen 2.

I don't think degradation has been that big of a concern except for 2 periods of time - early Zen 2 silicon on early AGESA, and when 7800X3Ds were exploding (which wasn't really a Vcore plane matter anyway). You should probably look more at it from the perspective of "what can scalar actually do for me?". I'll leave it to the AM5 experts but I'm not convinced it is of any more value now than it was back then.

 

[GerKNG]

What about under-volting?

same thing, you can wiggle around +/- 5% with overclocking and undervolting and the gains are with overclocking barely measurable and undervolting saves you a whopping dollar per quarter.
neither will it influence the life span (20 years or maybe 21 years really doesn't matter).
Don't get me wrong i am in the bios 30 times per week on every platform i've used in the last 20 years but nowadays there is really nothing of value to gain... CPUs and GPUs are basically perfect out of the box at a very good sweetspot with guaranteed stability.
neither my 9950X3D nor my 9070XT is overclocked or undervolted after playing around for a couple weeks with OC/UVs.

 

[freeagent]

instead of dealing with random instability with Curve optimizer and tiny clock offsets that do absolutely nothing.

Right?

 

[A Computer Guy]

I thought scalar was one of those options as long as you leave it at 1x you won't blow out your CPU playing with higher PBO limits.

 

[GerKNG]

Right?

View attachment 401660

A whopping 200 mhz unlocked and it Looks bigger because you lifted the powerlimit for all Core workloads. Stock with no powerlimit on mine is around 5.35 All core. I bet you can totally See and feel the difference of a 4% increase.
Same for the GPU around 3GHz from what? 2.8?. Thats at best a 5-7% increase with the Memory in Games that will surely transform your gameplay…
You can Not tell the difference between the Full System OC and stock even when i tell you that i eitler enabled or disabled your OC and removed hwinfo.

 

[freeagent]

You can Not tell the difference between the Full System OC and stock even when i tell you that i eitler enabled or disabled your OC and removed hwinfo.

Sure I can, because I use my system for more than just games, unlike most of the gamers here.

 

[AVATARAT]

Sure I can, because I use my system for more than just games, unlike most of the gamers here.

I could say the same, but it's pointless because people who say there's no difference between an overclocked system and a stock system - they just don't care about what happens when they click somewhere and how long it takes to complete the process.

 

[masterdeejay]

I have found the balanced settings for my 9800x3d. I don't think that a 0-1% performance worth the risk.
I set most of the settings to manual because auto can cause unnecessary overvoltage.
Cooling with a custom water loop 1080 size rad without any fans, just the pump. PSU is also in passive mode, and the video card is undervolted limited to 60 FPS so this is a very quiet pc.

My settings for 9800X3D and Asrock B650 PG:
TDP to 105w (that is the PPT not the TDP, bios label is wrong)
PBO enabled max 85C temp limit and -30 CO, scalar 1x.
VDDIO 1.35v
VDD RAM VDD 1.35v
VDD RAM VDDQ 1.35v
SOC 1.1V (1.2v needed for 6400 ram, that is a ~10% more voltage, not worth it)
VDD MISC 1.1v
VDDG CCD 0.95v
VDDG IOD 0.95v
VDDP 0.95v
FCLK/MCLK 2000/3000
At gaming it uses 40-50w. (~90-100w when shader compiling but that's rare)

Ram settings:
6000@32-39-39-102 (Cas 30 not stable)
1.35v - (6400 requires 1.45v, not worth +8% more voltage for under 1% performance)
65535 TREFI (only recommend if the ram is bellow 50C, it can reduce the latency)
480 TFRC (cant get any lower)
It is a cheap chinese Puskill 4x16GB 6400 SR. Non expo, manual settings based on XMP.

It is cool and safe.
I think that i don't need the PBO just the undervoltage part, when i have time i check the settings for this.