The TPU UK Clubhouse

[Space Lynx]

So much for my plans of keeping my Fiesta ST forever... it got stolen from my workplace's car park last night.

The thieves came with a car, tried to break into and start another one (but failed, so they just ripped the dash out instead), then went onto mine, where they tried to get in and get my steering lock off for about 20 minutes before driving off. They were recorded on CCTV, but not a soul saw a thing, obviously.

I have full insurance, so that's not a problem, but what do you guys think... is there any chance I could sue my employer for negligence of providing adequate safety and security in the (monitored) car park? Since this isn't the first case, the last one happened about a month ago.

I have driven all over England, it astonishes me crimes like this are even possible there. It's just not that big of a country, no offense, strategically if police would just go out in any kind of force and be proactive, I bet they could find the garages they are stripping these cars at really easily, I mean it would require some effort though... I know that's hard for humans in the year 2025. If they can't figure out the strategic plan of how to do it, then they should hire me on a work visa, because I bet I could have results within two months of getting settled in. A bit of Google Earth, CCTV tracking, socioeconomic filtering of geographic regions within nearby cities, more CCTV tracking (I bet I can find that Fiesta somewhere, and then based on the roads it used before I lose track of it, I can narrow down my map further)


Sorry about your car, but at least it was caught on CCTV and the insurance should refund you soon enough.

 

[the54thvoid]

I have driven all over England, it astonishes me crimes like this are even possible there. It's just not that big of a country, no offense, strategically if police would just go out in any kind of force and be proactive, I bet they could find the garages they are stripping these cars at really easily, I mean it would require some effort though... I know that's hard for humans in the year 2025. If they can't figure out the strategic plan of how to do it, then they should hire me on a work visa, because I bet I could have results within two months of getting settled in. A bit of Google Earth, CCTV tracking, socioeconomic filtering of geographic regions within nearby cities, more CCTV tracking (I bet I can find that Fiesta somewhere, and then based on the roads it used before I lose track of it, I can narrow down my map further)


Sorry about your car, but at least it was caught on CCTV and the insurance should refund you soon enough.

It's a population dense country which makes crime harder to prevent without permanent curfews.

The fact is, almost all nations rely on the goodwill of its people to obey the laws. If everyone of us decided to rise up, there would be anarchy and nations would fall. Society exists on faith of a collective goal (security, co-existence, etc). Crime has always been with us, and until there's no incentive for people to commit crime, it will remain with us. If any one of us chooses to go outside and commit a crime right now - we can. Only our morality or fear of consequence stops us.

A for these thoughts:

A bit of Google Earth, CCTV tracking, socioeconomic filtering of geographic regions within nearby cities, more CCTV tracking (I bet I can find that Fiesta somewhere, and then based on the roads it used before I lose track of it, I can narrow down my map further)


Sorry about your car, but at least it was caught on CCTV and the insurance should refund you soon enough.

Google Earth is a snapshot - not live. So useless. You're talking about satellite feeds. Not feasible to track a single car - this isn't the movies.

Socioeconomic filtering - Eh? what now? Either you're envisioning some sort of 'final solution', or you misunderstand how towns/cities work.

More CCTV: And who gets paid to operate them? Apart from obvious privacy concerns about living in 'more' of a surveillance state.

 

[Space Lynx]

It's a population dense country which makes crime harder to prevent without permanent curfews.

The fact is, almost all nations rely on the goodwill of its people to obey the laws. If everyone of us decided to rise up, there would be anarchy and nations would fall. Society exists on faith of a collective goal (security, co-existence, etc). Crime has always been with us, and until there's no incentive for people to commit crime, it will remain with us. If any one of us chooses to go outside and commit a crime right now - we can. Only our morality or fear of consequence stops us.

A for these thoughts:


Google Earth is a snapshot - not live. So useless. You're talking about satellite feeds. Not feasible to track a single car - this isn't the movies.

Socioeconomic filtering - Eh? what now? Either you're envisioning some sort of 'final solution', or you misunderstand how towns/cities work.

More CCTV: And who gets paid to operate them? Apart from obvious privacy concerns about living in 'more' of a surveillance state.

Fair, I would like to think AI will someday be able to monitor all CCTV and track things for us though, I know in South Korea their AI they use in public cameras can already track people with high level of accuracy, so I think it is only a matter of time before crimes like this are a thing of the past.

This AI claims to predict crimes before they happen based on real-time CCTV analysis

Dejaview uses machine learning to analyze patterns and identify signs of impending crimes. It considers factors like time of day, location, past incident records, and other variables...

www.techspot.com

we don't need to pay CCTV operators anymore ^

As far as socioeconomic filtering goes, most likely someone stealing a cheaper car like this is poor already, otherwise they wouldn't risk it. Therefore, you can filter out huge regions of areas where you know poor people don't live, the UK is not different from the USA in this regard, the rich live in certain areas, the poor, and the middle class also tend to live in different areas, like I bet these thieves don't live on High Street, so again this is part of the narrowing process of basic search function. Narrowing down your search quite dramatically. I'm assuming the thief is also not a Devonshire farmer, I could be wrong, but I have a hunch it isn't, and so these hunches would also narrow it down even more. Now there needs to be a garage of some kind, they wouldn't strip it in public, now that limits it even further.


You could use 911 Operators to direct the AI to focus on certain events after a call is placed. The future is going to be amazing.


here is what ChatGPT says:




Yes, South Korea has developed an AI-powered surveillance system called Dejaview, which is designed to detect and predict criminal activities in real-time using CCTV footage. Developed by the Electronics and Telecommunications Research Institute (ETRI), Dejaview employs machine learning algorithms to analyze patterns and identify signs of potential crimes. The system has demonstrated an accuracy rate of 82.8% in predicting criminal incidents, according to testing by the Telecommunications Technology Association of Korea .(Tom's Hardware, Artificial Intelligence Institute -, Korea Tech Today)


Dejaview utilizes a Predictive Crime Map (PCM), which is based on over 32,000 CCTV clips documenting various incidents over a three-year period. This map categorizes events such as violent crimes, traffic accidents, and fires according to time and location, enabling authorities to identify high-risk areas and allocate resources more effectively. Additionally, the system features a recidivism prediction component that monitors high-risk individuals and those under electronic surveillance .(Artificial Intelligence Institute -, Korea Tech Today, Verdict)


While the system has shown promising results, it's important to note that the reported accuracy rate is 82.8%, not 86%. Nonetheless, Dejaview represents a significant advancement in proactive crime prevention technologies.(iCONEXT CO., LTD.)


The South Korean government plans to deploy AI-based CCTV systems across Seoul by 2026, aiming to enhance public safety and reduce crime rates. These installations will replace outdated surveillance equipment and integrate AI capabilities to detect abnormal activities and notify monitoring agents in real-time .(AJU PRESS)


In summary, while South Korea has not developed an AI camera with 86% accuracy in detecting criminals, the Dejaview system has achieved an impressive 82.8% accuracy rate and is being implemented to improve public safety.(Korea Tech Today)

 

[KrazyT]

most likely someone stealing a cheaper car like this is poor already, otherwise they wouldn't risk it.

Not sure, maybe the car has be stollen for parts, or for someone who wants it.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I have driven all over England, it astonishes me crimes like this are even possible there. It's just not that big of a country, no offense, strategically if police would just go out in any kind of force and be proactive, I bet they could find the garages they are stripping these cars at really easily, I mean it would require some effort though... I know that's hard for humans in the year 2025. If they can't figure out the strategic plan of how to do it, then they should hire me on a work visa, because I bet I could have results within two months of getting settled in. A bit of Google Earth, CCTV tracking, socioeconomic filtering of geographic regions within nearby cities, more CCTV tracking (I bet I can find that Fiesta somewhere, and then based on the roads it used before I lose track of it, I can narrow down my map further)


Sorry about your car, but at least it was caught on CCTV and the insurance should refund you soon enough.

Better ignition security, no keys or door handles on cars, integrated trackers on all cars, disable tracker=disable ignition, most car thieves are not intelligent enough to bypass it. better, strongner window glass, possible even only breakable from the inside(if possible) for safety. Rolling frequency on wireless car entry systems, so frequency scanners might not work. possibly even have a print scanner on the key so it will not work without the print on the key, remotely scanning for the keys radio signal would not work without the physical print on the key.

 

[Space Lynx]

Better ignition security, no keys or door handles on cars, integrated trackers on all cars, disable tracker=disable ignition, most car thieves are not intelligent enough to bypass it. better, strongner window glass, possible even only breakable from the inside(if possible) for safety. Rolling frequency on wireless car entry systems, so frequency scanners might not work. possibly even have a print scanner on the key so it will not work without the print on the key, remotely scanning for the keys radio signal would not work without the physical print on the key.

this also works yeah, but I mean the face recognition AI is already here and much easier to implement I think. technically speaking it is already implemented in the UK and has been for a long time, its the reason I can land in Gatwick or Heathrow and not talk to a single human, and the computer scans my face and eyes, and lets me through. 100% no reason they can't integrate that system on a wider scale with the CCTV systems. it's only a matter of time anyway

FYI the new system the UK just implemented this year for foreign travelers, has you scan your face in detail from your phone before you arrive to the country too. it's a fairly solid system they have in place now.

I don't think its going to be like a hollywood movie, I genuinely think it will help reduce crime. if it ever gets abused their will be public outcry, just like anything else. hollywood has distorted are reality. i'd rather live in a safe society with AI CCTV scanning me everywhere than risk getting knifed with a 4 hr hospital wait time haha

 

[kurosagi01]

Fiesta ST is one of the highest stolen hot hatches next to Golf R.
If there are signs at your work car park similar to public car parks that says like leave it here at your own risk then there really isn't much you can do sadly.
I'm always surprised that the people that I know that had fiesta ST never got theirs stolen despite seeing articles saying they are common.
Hopefully you can get the car back if it's found or you get near the full pay out for it and not them trying to low ball you.
Saying that though I don't know if I would want the car back after it's been violated by thieves.

Hopefully you won't end up in this scenario:

Solihull man discovers he has bought his own stolen car

Ewan Valentine bought a replacement Honda Civic after his original car was stolen in February.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Space Lynx]

Fiesta ST is one of the highest stolen hot hatches next to Golf R.
If there are signs at your work car park similar to public car parks that says like leave it here at your own risk then there really isn't much you can do sadly.
I'm always surprised that the people that I know that had fiesta ST never got theirs stolen despite seeing articles saying they are common.
Hopefully you can get the car back if it's found or you get near the full pay out for it and not them trying to low ball you.
Saying that though I don't know if I would want the car back after it's been violated by thieves.

Hopefully you won't end up in this scenario:

Solihull man discovers he has bought his own stolen car

Ewan Valentine bought a replacement Honda Civic after his original car was stolen in February.

www.bbc.co.uk

ok so where are the cops in all this?

"Mr Valentine paid £20,000 for the replacement car at a reputable garage, but upon driving it home, he started to get suspicious." the article says this, and then it says the garage he bought it from was also duped and the cops agreed.

ok, then the article ends...

no... that's when police work should just begin... you ask the garage where they bought the car from, they should have an official paper trail and bank account numbers, etc etc.

sigh. it amazes me how much a lot of these people get paid to do nothing. AI and face recognition being widespread through CCTV can't come soon enough imo, humans are inept.

 

[AusWolf]

Fiesta ST is one of the highest stolen hot hatches next to Golf R.

Exactly. The keyless entry and keyless ignition makes them extremely easy to steal. All you need is a radio scanner to find the correct frequency and transmit the signal to make the car believe that you have the key. Then you can program any spare key to the car, or just sell the car for parts. That's why I had the steering lock - I didn't think thieves would bother removing it in a monitored car park, but apparently, I was wrong.

My next car definitely won't have all that keyless bollocks. In fact, my next car will probably be a beat-up cheap runabout that I'm not scared to lose.

If there are signs at your work car park similar to public car parks that says like leave it here at your own risk then there really isn't much you can do sadly.

There are no such signs (I've got pictures), so maybe there is something to do?

I'm always surprised that the people that I know that had fiesta ST never got theirs stolen despite seeing articles saying they are common.

I had it for 5.5 years with no issues. Apparently, the Midlands aren't what they used to be these days.

Hopefully you can get the car back if it's found or you get near the full pay out for it and not them trying to low ball you.
Saying that though I don't know if I would want the car back after it's been violated by thieves.

If the insurance company manages to bring it back to showroom condition, then sure, I'd want it back. But it don't think it'll ever be found.

 

[Tatty_Two]

ok so where are the cops in all this?

"Mr Valentine paid £20,000 for the replacement car at a reputable garage, but upon driving it home, he started to get suspicious." the article says this, and then it says the garage he bought it from was also duped and the cops agreed.

ok, then the article ends...

no... that's when police work should just begin... you ask the garage where they bought the car from, they should have an official paper trail and bank account numbers, etc etc.

sigh. it amazes me how much a lot of these people get paid to do nothing. AI and face recognition being widespread through CCTV can't come soon enough imo, humans are inept.

They are investigating the other 353 car thefts that happen each day in the UK, as well as what is considered to be more serious crime these days. In the USA a car is stolen pretty much every 30 seconds, obviously a much bigger country but you have something like 8 times less population density which means in the UK thieves don't have to travel too far to find an inviting car to steal.

 

[Space Lynx]

They are investigating the other 353 car thefts that happen each day in the UK, as well as what is considered to be more serious crime these days. In the USA a car is stolen pretty much every 30 seconds, obviously a much bigger country but you have something like 8 times less population density which means thieves don't have to travel far to find an inviting car to steal.

It's amazing to me modern society has not collapsed yet, if I were a dictator of said nation state, I'd call up the military to help the police in mass. Car thefts would be about 5 per month max. Modern societies are too lenient.

 

[AusWolf]

It's amazing to me modern society has not collapsed yet, if I were a dictator of said nation state, I'd call up the military to help the police in mass. Car thefts would be about 5 per month max.

The police is severely undermanned, probably due to the low pay, lacking benefits, and way too much stress, like every other job these days.

On this particular case, I blame modern conveniences like keyless ignition, which makes stealing a car way too easy. Honestly, why is inserting the key such a big problem that we have to compromise on our safety? I thought this when I bought the car, but the model without keyless entry also didn't have sat nav, or DAB radio, so I thought eh, feck it.

Modern societies are too lenient.

That I agree with completely.

 

[kurosagi01]

ok so where are the cops in all this?

"Mr Valentine paid £20,000 for the replacement car at a reputable garage, but upon driving it home, he started to get suspicious." the article says this, and then it says the garage he bought it from was also duped and the cops agreed.

ok, then the article ends...

no... that's when police work should just begin... you ask the garage where they bought the car from, they should have an official paper trail and bank account numbers, etc etc.

sigh. it amazes me how much a lot of these people get paid to do nothing. AI and face recognition being widespread through CCTV can't come soon enough imo, humans are inept.

For sure the police should be doing a better job, I mean..in this case it should be a little bit easier as the whole car is in tact and not in parts.

Exactly. The keyless entry and keyless ignition makes them extremely easy to steal. All you need is a radio scanner to find the correct frequency and transmit the signal to make the car believe that you have the key. Then you can program any spare key to the car, or just sell the car for parts. That's why I had the steering lock - I didn't think thieves would bother removing it in a monitored car park, but apparently, I was wrong.

My next car definitely won't have all that keyless bollocks. In fact, my next car will probably be a beat-up cheap runabout that I'm not scared to lose.


There are no such signs (I've got pictures), so maybe there is something to do?


I had it for 5.5 years with no issues. Apparently, the Midlands aren't what they used to be these days.


If the insurance company manages to bring it back to showroom condition, then sure, I'd want it back. But it don't think it'll ever be found.

I wonder if the last generation ST they have improved the security, i'm surprised Focus ST isn't as commonly stolen as I would have thought they would have the same security system like the Fiesta.

Modern convinvenance for lazy folks is the biggest downfall we will all face, the fact a lot of newer cars + EVs you can start a car with an app is just stupid. Definitely a car with a simple button press is all we need + keyhole.

If there are no signs or any paperwork that has disclaimers then you can probably have some grounds against your company for sure.

 

[AusWolf]

If there are no signs or any paperwork that has disclaimers then you can probably have some grounds against your company for sure.

I'll definitely try. I've already contacted the Union for advice, currently waiting for their reply.

 

[Tatty_Two]

It's amazing to me modern society has not collapsed yet, if I were a dictator of said nation state, I'd call up the military to help the police in mass. Car thefts would be about 5 per month max. Modern societies are too lenient.

It's not the military's job to do the police work for them, may as well ask dentists, it's bad enough when firemen go on strike and the military are deployed for months on end all over the country fighting fires, that worked at a time when the military were 3 times bigger than today, not anymore sadly. Public services have been on a huge decline for the last 15 years and despite what nonsense is broadcast, crime, especially at the less serious level continues to grow, mainly because more criminals appear to get away with that lower level crime ......... I think it's called an incentive

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I know the ST is a great little model, but it's a strange move.

Or it could be a smart move?

Ford supposedly discontinued the Focus line of cars last year I think. In 10-20 years time one in good condition might be worth a good few quid.

 

[kurosagi01]

It's not the military's job to do the police work for them, may as well ask dentists, it's bad enough when firemen go on strike and the military are deployed for months on end all over the country fighting fires, that worked at a time when the military were 3 times bigger than today, not anymore sadly. Public services have been on a huge decline for the last 15 years and despite what nonsense is broadcast, crime, especially at the less serious level continues to grow, mainly because more criminals appear to get away with that lower level crime ......... I think it's called an incentive

Its ok we will continue to higher consultants to make public services more diversive inclusive..oh wait 2 females having intimacy with criminals oh noes...
Only joking, there are good number of male public servants abusing power and it is a problem as a whole and not just "DEI" at fault.

Or it could be a smart move?

Ford supposedly discontinued the Focus line of cars last year I think. In 10-20 years time one in good condition might be worth a good few quid.

Fiesta and Focus are both gone now yeah which is sad because Ford are idiots, why would they stop selling cars that works great in europe just because people in the states love pick-up trucks and SUVs.
So we will only sell those in Europe too? Also selling a EV variant of their performance cars really irritated me, only for them to go back in making a petrol Mustang again, except it has engine design flaws.

All the big car manufacturers are now back peddling in the whole EV adoption just because they know they can't meet the "mandate" as people aren't buying EVs as its just not viable still and probably still won't be viable by 2035.

Good luck trying to get someone to charge their EV in high streets or in apartment complex or somewhere people that don't have a designated driveway.

 

[AusWolf]

Or it could be a smart move?

It definitely is considering how easy it is to steal one.

Ford supposedly discontinued the Focus line of cars last year I think. In 10-20 years time one in good condition might be worth a good few quid.

That's exactly why I wanted to keep mine.

Its ok we will continue to higher consultants to make public services more diversive inclusive..oh wait 2 females having intimacy with criminals oh noes...
Only joking, there are good number of male public servants abusing power and it is a problem as a whole and not just "DEI" at fault.

I think the main reason is low pay. That's why quality in every line of work (among other things) has been dropping rapidly.

Fiesta and Focus are both gone now yeah which is sad because Ford are idiots, why would they stop selling cars that works great in europe just because people in the states love pick-up trucks and SUVs.
So we will only sell those in Europe too? Also selling a EV variant of their performance cars really irritated me, only for them to go back in making a petrol Mustang again, except it has engine design flaws.

All the big car manufacturers are now back peddling in the whole EV adoption just because they know they can't meet the "mandate" as people aren't buying EVs as its just not viable still and probably still won't be viable by 2035.

Good luck trying to get someone to charge their EV in high streets or in apartment complex or somewhere people that don't have a designated driveway.

I've read somewhere that the Japanese, especially Toyota aren't exactly overjoyed with pure electric vehicles (they lean towards hybrids), and as someone who lives in an apartment, I'm not either.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

If you want to protect your car from theft. I think its a wise idea to go to your local mechanic and pay them to install a hidden killswitch inside your car.

 

[AusWolf]

If you want to protect your car from theft. I think its a wise idea to go to your local mechanic and pay them to install a hidden killswitch inside your car.

Not a bad idea, although I really don't think I'm gonna have a nice car again. Better to buy a worn-down shitbox that nobody wants to steal (and if someone actually does, they can have it).

 

[Space Lynx]

It's not the military's job to do the police work for them, may as well ask dentists, it's bad enough when firemen go on strike and the military are deployed for months on end all over the country fighting fires, that worked at a time when the military were 3 times bigger than today, not anymore sadly. Public services have been on a huge decline for the last 15 years and despite what nonsense is broadcast, crime, especially at the less serious level continues to grow, mainly because more criminals appear to get away with that lower level crime ......... I think it's called an incentive

I understand that, but in times of emergency a nation states military has to step up and help. That was the genius of Ancient Rome's military too, and why Rome flourished.

If you want to protect your car from theft. I think its a wise idea to go to your local mechanic and pay them to install a hidden killswitch inside your car.

I know someone that has a Landrover in England, and they have keyless start, but their vehicle has a "secret passcode" he showed me his, just a few things he has to touch or turn a dial this way or that, and it "unlocks" the keyless start. This should be standard.

 

[AusWolf]

I know someone that has a Landrover in England, and they have keyless start, but their vehicle has a "secret passcode" he showed me his, just a few things he has to touch or turn a dial this way or that, and it "unlocks" the keyless start. This should be standard.

Or we could just forget about the keyless start. What's the point of it anyway?

 

[the54thvoid]

If you want to protect your car from theft. I think its a wise idea to go to your local mechanic and pay them to install a hidden killswitch inside your car.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I understand that, but in times of emergency a nation states military has to step up and help. That was the genius of Ancient Rome's military too, and why Rome flourished.



I know someone that has a Landrover in England, and they have keyless start, but their vehicle has a "secret passcode" he showed me his, just a few things he has to touch or turn a dial this way or that, and it "unlocks" the keyless start. This should be standard.

Actually Rome flourished at it's peak because it killed everyone who opposed it, even though it invaded their lands and raped, pillaged and murdered their people whilst stealing their natural resources and recruiting thousands of slaves to send back to Rome, the best of which got to entertain wealthy Romans by fighting in arena's. Yes there were benefits but the people of those countries didn't care much for them at the time.

That aside, your missing the point, the military have no civil power in terms of law enforcement, that's why they could fight fires and administer vaccines during a pandemic but cannot arrest or detain someone not in the armed forces or go into prisons to add security. Before you say "OK, give them the powers then" ........ That's how coup's start

 

[Space Lynx]

Actually Rome flourished at it's peak because it killed everyone who opposed it, even though it invaded their lands and raped, pillaged and murdered their people whilst stealing their natural resources and recruiting thousands of slaves to send back to Rome, the best of which got to entertain wealthy Romans by fighting in arena's. Yes there were benefits but the people of those countries didn't care much for them at the time.

That aside, your missing the point, the military have no civil power in terms of law enforcement, that's why they could fight fires and administer vaccines during a pandemic but cannot arrest or detain someone not in the armed forces or go into prisons to add security. Before you say "OK, give them the powers then" ........ That's how coup's start

I understand all of that, I am just saying some of the Roman flourishment came from the military integration they had. Civilization needs stability, and western societies really are starting to struggle from my observations. Also, the military built the aqueducts, and many other marvels of engineering. Yet, Flint Michigan still has lead in the water after 14 years now? Just as one example.