9800X3D, hotter than the first day, pulling more wattage?

[Pets4Ever]

My opinion.

Personally I would buy a 420 mm artic liquid freezer II. And get a proper case where it fits. Especially as you wrote you want to replace the case anyway. You may also read all those posts abut the arctic fans for the arctic liquid freezer III. There is something about the fans tehy use and the fan performance. I assue you want to use the stock fans.
I think, not sure, the arctic liquid freezer III pro version uses worse fans. Maybe the noise or perforamnce was worse according to hardwareluxx. I want to ask you to research that yourself please.

The upgraded fans I was talking about are now standard on the newer Pro variant.

The Arctic LF2 420 doesn't seem to be available, if I don't like the 360 I can always return it though and wait for a 420

 

[JustBenching]

The upgraded fans I was talking about are now standard on the newer Pro variant.

The Arctic LF2 420 doesn't seem to be available, if I don't like the 360 I can always return it though and wait for a 420

Piece of advice, just ignore random advices by random people (ironic, I get it). A 420, 360 or even 240 AIO will give you the exact same temperatures on the 9800x 3d. A bigger radiator is beneficial for dissipating a larger amount of heat. This is not your problem here though, the problem is the poor IHS contact and concentrated heat of the 9800x 3d, you can put as large of a radiator as you want but the temps won't be any better. If the 360 you ordered doesn't get the job done neither will the 420

 

[Pets4Ever]

I’m unsure why people equate CB and the like to realistic scenarios for heat/temps when that’s far from the truth when using a 9800X3D for… ya know… gaming, or not slamming your pc with benchmarks/unrealistic loads.

My temps actually hit the thermal limit when playing Helldivers 2, only once or twice a session but still it happened.

You are playing POE 2 right?

Helldivers 2...coded by a vat of single celled organisms I sometimes think. So many unoptimized scenarios that cause dips.

 

[phanbuey]

Piece of advice, just ignore random advices by random people (ironic, I get it). A 420, 360 or even 240 AIO will give you the exact same temperatures on the 9800x 3d. A bigger radiator is beneficial for dissipating a larger amount of heat. This is not your problem here though, the problem is the poor IHS contact and concentrated heat of the 9800x 3d, you can put as large of a radiator as you want but the temps won't be any better. If the 360 you ordered doesn't get the job done neither will the 420

This -- Lower water temperature will be beneficial, but past a certain point (240 AIO) the difference is pretty minimal, apart from how fast the fans spin to keep the water at +5 ambient. The 360 is more than enough - have it suck cold air in from the top, and you will see a big difference in your temps.

 

[JustBenching]

This -- Lower water temperature will be beneficial, but past a certain point (240 AIO) the difference is pretty minimal, apart from how fast the fans spin to keep the water at +5 ambient.

I don't even think he is getting lower water temps with 9800x 3d's power draw, the difference will be minimal between 240 to 360, let alone 360 to 420. Water will be chilling.

 

[Pets4Ever]

This is not your problem here though, the problem is the poor IHS contact and concentrated heat of the 9800x 3d (snip)

Well, I wonder. Dorek up there says he only hits 80°C with the same cooler, very similar setup. Maybe mine is a bad sample? I don't see how the installation could be wrong, it's so straightforward.

I have the same cooler but mine tops out at around 80+ which isnt really super high for such a tough bench but i used some ancient arctic silver 5 paste whatever.

Do you know what your ambient temps might be? I can only guess on mine but I'm thinking 23-24°C last night

This -- Lower water temperature will be beneficial, but past a certain point (240 AIO) the difference is pretty minimal, apart from how fast the fans spin to keep the water at +5 ambient. The 360 is more than enough - have it suck cold air in from the top, and you will see a big difference in your temps.

You have the rad acting as an intake? What is your exhaust setup then? Doesn't that hurt your GPU temps?

 

[JustBenching]

Well, I wonder. Dorek up there says he only hits 80°C with the same cooler, very similar setup. Maybe mine is a bad sample? I don't see how the installation could be wrong, it's so straightforward.

Hitting 80c at what wattage though? Without knowing that it's kind of useless information. My b650 hdv mobo for example had an 80C temp limit by default, so my CPU was technically hitting 80c max

 

[Pets4Ever]

Hitting 80c at what wattage though? Without knowing that it's kind of useless information. My b650 hdv mobo for example had an 80C temp limit by default, so my CPU was technically hitting 80c max

Good point. And maybe my motherboard initially had a similar limiter in the beginning and I "broke" it somehow by changing settings. I get the feeling this bios is not the world's most stable.

Could be worse though, I hear ASROCK motherboards are frying CPUs.

 

[JustBenching]

Good point. And maybe my motherboard initially had a similar limiter in the beginning and I "broke" it somehow by changing settings. I get the feeling this bios is not the world's most stable.

Could be worse though, I hear ASROCK motherboards are frying CPUs.

My asrock didn't manage to fry it, so all good!

I think your whole issue is a noctua + ryzen situation, they just don't work nicely together. Most likely your issues will be gone with the arctic. Friend of mine used the LF3 on my 9800x 3d (gave it to him) and his temps are good even though mine were meh.

 

[Pets4Ever]

My asrock didn't manage to fry it, so all good!

I think your whole issue is a noctua + ryzen situation, they just don't work nicely together. Most likely your issues will be gone with the arctic. Friend of mine used the LF3 on my 9800x 3d (gave it to him) and his temps are good even though mine were meh.

What did you switch to from 9800X3D? If I switched it would be to 9950X3D for more versatility, but I imagine that's an even bigger headache to cool

 

[JustBenching]

What did you switch to from 9800X3D? If I switched it would be to 9950X3D for more versatility, but I imagine that's an even bigger headache to cool

Went back to my 12900k.

 

[Pets4Ever]

Went back to my 12900k.

I came from a 12700k, really solid CPU. I just figured that if I had the world's best gaming CPU I might stave off some dips in poorly optimized games. The 9800X3D also beats my 12700k in most scenarios despite having fewer cores so there is that. I suspect that the 12900k probably outdistances the 9800X3D in more applications with those extra cores?

I think the 14700k is a winner if you get a new one and make sure the bios is upgraded. Problem is, I was on a DDR4 mobo so upgrading just the CPU would have left performance on the table and that's why I ended up going to AM5.

 

[JustBenching]

I came from a 12700k, really solid CPU. I just figured that if I had the world's best gaming CPU I might stave off some dips in poorly optimized games. The 9800X3D also beats my 12700k in most scenarios despite having fewer cores so there is that. I suspect that the 12900k probably outdistances the 9800X3D in more applications with those extra cores?

I think the 14700k is a winner if you get a new one and make sure the bios is upgraded. Problem is, I was on a DDR4 mobo so upgrading just the CPU would have left performance on the table and that's why I ended up going to AM5.

The 9800x 3d is definitely faster in the vast majority of games but not in actual real world scenarios - since im playing at 4k. And yeah, it's a lot slower in any multitasking scenario which was getting on my nerves, felt like a downgrade cause there were things that it couldn't do that my 12900k was doing pretty easily so...

 

[Pets4Ever]

The 9800x 3d is definitely faster in the vast majority of games but not in actual real world scenarios - since im playing at 4k. And yeah, it's a lot slower in any multitasking scenario which was getting on my nerves, felt like a downgrade cause there were things that it couldn't do that my 12900k was doing pretty easily so...

I'm on 1440p currently so not as pronounced of a GPU bottleneck maybe. Yea, I'm worried that I'll miss the 4 cores I lost but I think the "3D" cache is a great thing to have so my thought process is, sell my old parts and hang on until I see a 9950X3D at a price I can live with, then go to that. The productivity performance is pretty good https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/amd-ryzen-9-9950x3d-and-9900x3d-content-creation-review/

 

[JustBenching]

I'm on 1440p currently so not as pronounced of a GPU bottleneck maybe. Yea, I'm worried that I'll miss the 4 cores I lost but I think the "3D" cache is a great thing to have so my thought process is, sell my old parts and hang on until I see a 9950X3D at a price I can live with, then go to that. The productivity performance is pretty good https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/amd-ryzen-9-9950x3d-and-9900x3d-content-creation-review/

Yeap, the 9950x 3d is a goat, I just dislike the dual CCD stuff and the absurd low load / idle power draw, so if I was going to upgrade to something i'd personally go for the 285k. Seems to be a lot more chill and efficient.

 

[rv8000]

My temps actually hit the thermal limit when playing Helldivers 2, only once or twice a session but still it happened.


Helldivers 2...coded by a vat of single celled organisms I sometimes think. So many unoptimized scenarios that cause dips.

I’ll check when I’m home, I don’t remember temps being that high in HD2 (I have a 9800x3D and NH-D15 at home). I’m now especially curious if this is a misreporting/sensor issue on the tomahawk.

 

[Pets4Ever]

I’ll check when I’m home, I don’t remember temps being that high in HD2 (I have a 9800x3D and NH-D15 at home). I’m now especially curious if this is a misreporting/sensor issue on the tomahawk.

That would explain a lot. Are your individual core temps similar to your Tctl/Tdie temps? Because mine have been at least 10 degrees higher from the beginning.

More info on my HD2 performance:

* 9800X3D with 4080S
* 1440p resolution
* uncapped frames
* ~90 fps average, more on the ship
* 4080S draws 300W most of the time in this game, sometimes 320

When I get home, I'll capture some data with HWINFO

 

[FoulOnWhite]

When I first installed the 9800X3D I ran Cinebench 2024 and my temps were ~41°C idle, and maximum 82°C in Cinebench. I think I remember the CPU package wattage maxed out at 120 or 130 W. Even with PBO turned on, I got higher frequencies but I don't think the wattage went up that day.

Fast forward to yesterday, idling at about 50°C, averaged 90°C in Cinebench, and peaked at about 92°C. 140 watts package power now. So I think, PBO must finally be working? I turn it off. Cinebench score goes down 30 points, temps stay the same. Later played a game where temp spikes hit the thermal limit of 95°C once or twice briefly before dropping down again. (Helldivers 2 is an unoptimized mess)

My cooling setup: Noctua NH-D15, 3 front intakes, 1 rear exhaust, 1 top exhaust(directly above CPU), Case is Fractal Define S, Arctic MX-6 paste sold and fulfilled by Amazon (fixed)


The ambient temp was definitely higher than the first day, but I am unsure of how much higher. I know it was 71°F outside when I checked before bed but my room was warmer. That doesn't explain the wattage thing though. And I don't think this CPU should be getting so close to it's thermal limit with this cooler. The paste I used was MX-6 shipped and sold by amazon.

When I get home I plan to reset the bios, maybe reflash it (it's already up to date). I ordered an Arctic Freezer III Pro, but I'm not convinced that my cooler is entirely to blame here.

What do you guys think is going on?

I was reading last night, and a D15 might benefit from being lapped. I have a D15s myself and considered doing it to see if it makes my temps better on my 7800X3D. I saw a forum post where the cooler, a D15 was not flat in the middle, which benefits intel cpu's but not AM5.

 

[Pets4Ever]

Yeap, the 9950x 3d is a goat, I just dislike the dual CCD stuff and the absurd low load / idle power draw, so if I was going to upgrade to something i'd personally go for the 285k. Seems to be a lot more chill and efficient.

Since you are playing at 4K that would make sense--I bet you'd rarely be CPU bound in a game even in bursts.

Energy efficiency appeals to me (and cooler operation) but I'm not sure about that big.LITTLE architecture. My understanding is Windows has extra scheduling tweaks to make that big.LITTLE architecture work well. Lately I've been thinking I should start using Linux because I expect MS to shove AI down our throats and it'll be messy, plus they love taking away perfectly good functionality. (Start Menu in 11 is a shadow of what it was in 10, Taskbar can't even be moved wtf)

 

[JustBenching]

Since you are playing at 4K that would make sense--I bet you'd rarely be CPU bound in a game even in bursts.

Energy efficiency appeals to me (and cooler operation) but I'm not sure about that big.LITTLE architecture. My understanding is Windows has extra scheduling tweaks to make that big.LITTLE architecture work well. Lately I've been thinking I should start using Linux because I expect MS to shove AI down our throats and it'll be messy, plus they love taking away perfectly good functionality. (Start Menu in 11 is a shadow of what it was in 10, Taskbar can't even be moved wtf)

Im using windows 10,its much faster for intel and a bit faster for amd as well.

 

[phanbuey]

Well, I wonder. Dorek up there says he only hits 80°C with the same cooler, very similar setup. Maybe mine is a bad sample? I don't see how the installation could be wrong, it's so straightforward.


Do you know what your ambient temps might be? I can only guess on mine but I'm thinking 23-24°C last night


You have the rad acting as an intake? What is your exhaust setup then? Doesn't that hurt your GPU temps?

2 140MM fans exhasuting top, ducted EVO cooler - but I can instal a 120MM aio tonight and show you some temps...

The duct drops temps by 5C on average.

Without duct.

 

[Pets4Ever]

Im using windows 10,its much faster for intel and a bit faster for amd as well.

I remember reading a couple of years ago when I got my 12700k that you should install Windows 11 for the updated scheduling. Did Win 10 get that update too later on?

Windows 10 is EOL this year too, you going to pay for a maintenance plan?

2 140MM fans exhasuting top, ducted EVO cooler - but I can instal a 120MM aio tonight and show you some temps...

View attachment 402349

The duct drops temps by 5C on average.

View attachment 402350

Without duct.

Looks like you have a blower-style FE card, so no need to worry about GPU exhaust getting to your rear exhaust fan. For me that duct would definitely be a bad idea.

I was just confused because you said something about the rad pulling in cold air from the top and I took that to mean install it as an intake.

 

[phanbuey]

I remember reading a couple of years ago when I got my 12700k that you should install Windows 11 for the updated scheduling. Did Win 10 get that update too later on?

Windows 10 is EOL this year too, you going to pay for a maintenance plan?


Looks like you have a blower-style FE card, so no need to worry about GPU exhaust getting to your rear exhaust fan. For me that duct would definitely be a bad idea.

I was just confused because you said something about the rad pulling in cold air from the top and I took that to mean install it as an intake.

Its' counter intuative, but yes - like so - intake in the top gives you 5-10 C better temps and the front intake fans are more than strong enough to push the heat out of the case.

You're not dissipating much heat - 150W max is nothing - but the 10C cooler ambient water makes the difference between throttling and not.

If you look at the high end OEMs (Dell Alienware, Apple Mac Pro -- They're all using this type of airflow setup) - positive pressure and pushing heat out of the case, no exhaust fans.

Try it for yourself - see the difference.

 

[Pets4Ever]

View attachment 402351

Its' counter intuative, but yes - like so - intake in the top gives you 5-10 C better temps and the intake fans are more than strong enough to push the heat out of the case. If you look at the high end OEMs (Dell Alienware, Apple Mac Pro -- They're all using this type of airflow setup.

You're not dissipating much heat - 150W max is nothing - but the 10C cooler ambient water makes the difference between throttling and not.

The back of my case has pretty poor flow so idk if the exhaust would be adequate, especially since the rad would hang down in front of the rear fan by a bit.

Fractal Define S Rear:

Antec Flux Pro Rear:

Meshify 3 XL rear:

 

[phanbuey]

Ah i see - then yeah rad up front makes more sense in that case.