Steam Deck 2 and all future handhelds will never get it right.

[oxrufiioxo]

Id be willing to bet that even fsr3 at 1200p would walk all over 800p native. Its almost if not always better to go for a higher resolution screen and use upscaling than go for a lower one and play natively

I think FSR 2/3 would just be a trade off of what you like less I would take the slightly blurred image of TAA over the shimmering shit show that is older versions of FSR.

FSR is a blurry mess and does not interest me. Most of the games I want to play on handheld are backlog games that do not support FSR or DLSS anyway, I just want a nicer handheld to play them at higher refresh rate and higher battery life, none of you seem to understand that though.

You need to get millions of people to want that 1 person wanting to play old games on a nice screen that they can walk around with isn't going to move the needle for hardware makers.

I'm not disagreeing with you that these handhelds need better screens, I'm just saying they are not going to focus on a lower resolution to do it, it makes no sense from a monetary or marketing perspective.

 

[JustBenching]

FSR is a blurry mess and does not interest me. Most of the games I want to play on handheld are backlog games that do not support FSR or DLSS anyway, I just want a nicer handheld to play them at higher refresh rate and higher battery life, none of you seem to understand that though.

So buy the steam deck and play your old games that dont support fsr. This new device is for people that want to play new games that support fsr.

I think FSR 2/3 would just be a trade off of what you like less I would take the slightly blurred image of TAA over the shimmering shit show that is older versions of FSR.

I think people are more critical of fsr that it is warranted. It is bad, no arguing there, but compared to a much lower native res? I aint buying it, i think the 800p native would look flat out worse. Im sure w1zzard has these kinds of comparisons but im on the phone now, too bored to post it, i can do it tommorow

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I think people are more critical of fsr that it is warranted. It is bad, no arguing there, but compared to a much lower native res? I aint buying it, i think the 800p native would look flat out worse. Im sure w1zzard has these kinds of comparisons but im on the phone now, too bored to post it, i can do it tommorow

Yeah, the smallest screen I've used FSR on was a 1200P 13 inch laptop and literally just playing at 1280x800 looked better than using FSR2 but it has been a while

 

[Space Lynx]

It doesnt affect baterry life. Dlss was just an example to counteract your thesis that handhelds shouldnt have higher res and that upscalers dont look better than native
Thats absolutely wrong.

Hardware Unboxed disagrees with you, it's a game by game basis, and only about 40% of the games they tested DLSS looks better than native, still doesn't change any of my other points...

see this video here: go the conclusion section of this video.

and im pretty certain the screen itself will still draw more battery power, the higher pixel native count you go up. see rtings reviews of any monitor - the power usage seems to get higher with pixel density, so yes it would affect battery. and DLSS doesn't apply to like 90% of the games i want to play with handhelds, but i still want high refresh rate and longer battery life in those games...

So buy the steam deck and play your old games that dont support fsr. This new device is for people that want to play new games that support fsr.

the current deck OLED can not play some of the games i want higher refresh rates sadly, and these same games do not support upscaling... so i still want what I said in my original statement, same OLED 800p screen with higher APU inside.

 

[DemonicRyzen666]

Hardware Unboxed disagrees with you, it's a game by game basis, and only about 40% of the games they tested DLSS looks better than native, still doesn't change any of my other points...

see this video here: go the conclusion section of this video.

and im pretty certain the screen itself will still draw more battery power, the higher pixel native count you go up. see rtings reviews of any monitor - the power usage seems to get higher with pixel density, so yes it would affect battery. and DLSS doesn't apply to like 90% of the games i want to play with handhelds, but i still want high refresh rate and longer battery life in those games...



the current deck OLED can not play some of the games i want higher refresh rates sadly, and these same games do not support upscaling... so i still want what I said in my original statement, same OLED 800p screen with higher APU inside.

That Hardwareboxed video is comparing Native resoluation with TAA enable vs D.L.S.S. No duh D.L.S.S looks better it was designed to fix that TAA problem.
My main issue with this is the lack of ablity to chose something other than about three/four including DLAA It's either TAA, TAAU, or FXAA. Where the rest of the AA choices?
also how about just Native with no AA to find out where rending error come in the engine without post processing to muddy it up?
Then there is the issues of games like Cyberpunk 2077, Where Gamer's Nexus said their Native resolution & textures & lighting & TAA implimentation is so bad that you have to use D.L.S.S just to get a properly rendered picture.

This is why if you want to compare Image quality you're going to have spend a lot time using software to compare from a base 100% & go Frame by Frame to get a real % difference to quality of upscalers vs Native quality.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Hardware Unboxed disagrees with you, it's a game by game basis, and only about 40% of the games they tested DLSS looks better than native, still doesn't change any of my other points...

see this video here: go the conclusion section of this video.

and im pretty certain the screen itself will still draw more battery power, the higher pixel native count you go up. see rtings reviews of any monitor - the power usage seems to get higher with pixel density, so yes it would affect battery. and DLSS doesn't apply to like 90% of the games i want to play with handhelds, but i still want high refresh rate and longer battery life in those games...

At least link a video with actual modern technologies

 

[Space Lynx]

At least link a video with actual modern technologies

Fair, but I don't even understand why this is part of the discussion. Nvidia isn't going to make a handheld outside of the Switch 2, FSR4 doesn't support enough games, neither does DLSS4. I am talking about backlog of games that support neither technologies, that would be cool to run on a handheld at high refresh...

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Fair, but I don't even understand why this is part of the discussion. Nvidia isn't going to make a handheld outside of the Switch 2, FSR4 doesn't support enough games, neither does DLSS4. I am talking about backlog of games that support neither technologies, that would be cool to run on a handheld at high refresh...

Any new hardware would be designed around running futures games and your best bet is them to make a kick @$$ udna based steamdeck 2. Nobody is going to make a cutting edge handheld with an awesome screen that can't play the latest and in that scenario it's a win for you becuase older games will run native on whatever they decide screen wise as long as they don't do somthing stupid and put a 1440p.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Fair, but I don't even understand why this is part of the discussion. Nvidia isn't going to make a handheld outside of the Switch 2, FSR4 doesn't support enough games, neither does DLSS4. I am talking about backlog of games that support neither technologies, that would be cool to run on a handheld at high refresh...

Ball is in AMD's court to support FSR 4 on as many handheld SoCs as they can. But really, if you're looking cutting edge, most of these handhelds are excluded by default, and most notably the Steam Deck which has one of the oldest and weakest of the bunch. Start shopping around the ROG Ally X, IMO - though the newer options with Ryzen AI CPUs will kick it up a notch further than the Z1 Extreme, and then there's the Z2 Extreme and AI Z2 Extreme coming up...

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Ball is in AMD's court to support FSR 4 on as many handheld SoCs as they can. But really, if you're looking cutting edge, most of these handhelds are excluded by default, and most notably the Steam Deck which has one of the oldest and weakest of the bunch. Start shopping around the ROG Ally X, IMO - though the newer options with Ryzen AI CPUs will kick it up a notch further than the Z1 Extreme, and then there's the Z2 Extreme and AI Z2 Extreme coming up...

We are probably 8-12 months out before we see APU that can support FSR4 amd lags when it comes to what architecture their APU use. They really need to find a way to get that into more games so by the time a handheld supports it it's in almost every game.

We probably will have to wait till an APU based on 2n comes out to get a decent uplift without destroying the battery life.

 

[Dr. Dro]

We are probably 8-12 months out before we see APU that can support FSR4 amd lags when it comes to what architecture their APU use.

We probably will have to wait till an APU based on 2n comes out to get a decent uplift without destroying the battery life.

Yep. I'm due replacing my phone, I'm debating between simply buying one of the upcoming iPhone Pro's, a cheap phone + a handheld for gaming or if I just go the unorthodox route and buy a high-end tablet with the ability to place calls (perhaps the Galaxy Tab S11 Ultra) - though Android is almost a deal breaker to me... still have some time, will see how it all pans out I suppose.

 

[lexluthermiester]

@Space Lynx
While I understand your complaints and respect your conclusion and opinion, I have to respectfully disagree.

The SD is solid, but I still have my 9year old GPD Q9+(RK3288+Androi4.4.4 based) and still like & use it. I've been looking favorably at the Anbernic Win600 which is also a older, but still very usable unit. High end specs are not required to have fun and be an effective handheld. I would prefer a more budget focused unit with a lower end chipset to get optimal battery life.

I could care less about playing CyberPunk, Stalker2, etc, etc on the go. But throw on some OpenXComEX, GZDoom, OpenRTC, Tunic, Trinity Trigger and games like those which are absolutely great titles but do not need high end specs and I'm in! Super high-end belongs in a desktop.

 

[Hyderz]

i love my steam deck.. i quite like the size, 90hz oled screen and the feel of the device...
as for steam deck 2 i hope valve would put more focus on the battery life..
800p screen is pretty good in my books but do not go over 1080p... as it is not needed...
i expect the steam deck 2 to play all the latest title at somewhat decent fps (60fps) but high or ultra settings not needed.. heck not even medium.. i be happy with low ... i finished ff7 remake on low... didnt even notice the low textures...

other thing i would love to see ... maintenance of steam deck 2 be much more straight foward.. like applying thermal paste.. cleaning fans
upgrading storage..

 

[JustBenching]

Hardware Unboxed disagrees with you, it's a game by game basis,

Nope, he isn't testing a higher res with DLSS vs a lower native. You need to understand what exactly you are comparing here

 

[Jtuck9]

Wouldn't the upscaling be more applicable to "docked mode"? Or "Big Picture Mode"?! I'm more interested in how games themselves translate to a handheld format, the Half Life: Alyx non VR mod comes to mind (I actually thought the Steam Deck control mapping was rather innovative). Necessity seems to be the mother of downsizing more than anything at the moment while Besos and his ilk rent out Venice for 3 days and Peter Thiel tells us that "We" are dreaming too small.

Also:

 

[Space Lynx]

Nope, he isn't testing a higher res with DLSS vs a lower native. You need to understand what exactly you are comparing here

point is moot, he is still saying DLSS quality is still worse than native in several games, even if it is an old video that prob still holds true for DLSS4 tho to a lesser degree, doesn't change the fact I have been saying like 7 posts in a row now not a lot of the games I want to play on handheld support DLSS4 anyway... but you all keep ignoring that... i want a better apu on 800p native screen. dont really give a fuck what the rest of you want i wont be buying it

i guess gamers have different wants, its crazy, i know

i love my steam deck.. i quite like the size, 90hz oled screen and the feel of the device...
as for steam deck 2 i hope valve would put more focus on the battery life..
800p screen is pretty good in my books but do not go over 1080p... as it is not needed...
i expect the steam deck 2 to play all the latest title at somewhat decent fps (60fps) but high or ultra settings not needed.. heck not even medium.. i be happy with low ... i finished ff7 remake on low... didnt even notice the low textures...

other thing i would love to see ... maintenance of steam deck 2 be much more straight foward.. like applying thermal paste.. cleaning fans
upgrading storage..

ya i'd like to play games like ffxvi on the go at say 75 fps native 800p with decent battery life.

 

[Nordic]

@Nordic Just thought I'd tag you for your thoughts, since you are the Deck Clubhouse starter.

I am a day late but I will give my two cents.

There has been some discussions about what manufacturers are making and what gamers want. Let's discuss what we know gamers want.

1. The original $650 steam deck was by far the best selling Steam Deck in the first few months. Valve thought the cheapest model would sell best but Valve was wrong. Most people who want a non-nintendo gaming handheld are not as concerned with having a low price. Handheld gamers are willing to pay a higher price for a more premium product.
2. Let's look at the top 20 most popular Steam Deck games in the last year. A lot of the popular games do not perform well on the Steam Deck. Elden ring, Balders Gate, Cyberpunk, Hogwarts, Wukong. Despite the low performance, a lot of people are still playing these games. From this we can assume that people want a higher performance APU.

Given this information I think it is only reasonable that non-valve manufactuerers make a premium handheld with a higher performing APU. Asus, MSI, and Lenovo are all competing for this narrow niche of a market. Are they all stupid or are they looking at the information available and making rational decisions? Valve has the budget non-nintendo market locked down right now. I think the Asus, MSI, and Lenovo devices learned from the lessons the Steam Deck provided. They are making what the majority of people want.

 

[Space Lynx]

I am a day late but I will give my two cents.

There has been some discussions about what manufacturers are making and what gamers want. Let's discuss what we know gamers want.

1. The original $650 steam deck was by far the best selling Steam Deck in the first few months. Valve thought the cheapest model would sell best but Valve was wrong. Most people who want a non-nintendo gaming handheld are not as concerned with having a low price. Handheld gamers are willing to pay a higher price for a more premium product.
2. Let's look at the top 20 most popular Steam Deck games in the last year. A lot of the popular games do not perform well on the Steam Deck. Elden ring, Balders Gate, Cyberpunk, Hogwarts, Wukong. Despite the low performance, a lot of people are still playing these games. From this we can assume that people want a higher performance APU.

Given this information I think it is only reasonable that non-valve manufactuerers make a premium handheld with a higher performing APU. Asus, MSI, and Lenovo are all competing for this narrow niche of a market. Are they all stupid or are they looking at the information available and making rational decisions? Valve has the budget non-nintendo market locked down right now. I think the Asus, MSI, and Lenovo devices learned from the lessons the Steam Deck provided. They are making what the majority of people want.

Yeah, I have seen the headlines in recent months of games like Baldur's Gate 3, Spider-Man, Cyberpunk 2077, etc. topping the charts for Deck. I know most people don't mind the 40 fps gaming, but I do unfortunately, that is why my original post was paying condolences to the Steam Deck 2 which I probably will never buy as it will focus on a more premium screen (I am 99% certain of this), hence my statement, "no gains realized" with the screenshot of the Z1 Extreme on SeatmOS getting the same Cyberpunk 2077 40 fps. I'm a different market and I get that, it is what it is.

This was more my farewell post to handhelds than anything, because they can't offer me what I want, the original steam deck does indie gaming fine or very old games too, and that's all I will ever use it for. I was somewhat hopeful that I'd be able to play a lot of my AAA JRPG backlog (like FFXV and FFXVI) at like 75 fps on the go someday, but I can see now that is not worth holding my breath for, because unless its native resolution run it always looks a little off to my eyes and even next gen APU's won't be able to pull those games off at 1080p/1200p high refresh/long battery life.

For me the greatest benefit of Deck was the wattage slider, fps readout, and being able to calibrate any game to use minimum wattage within 10 seconds to maintain steady 60 fps. The battery life is insane when you do that, but its all wasted if the screen is going to increase to most likely 1200p. I would love 1200p if it wouldn't crush an APU, but it will, so they won't be getting my money, that's all. Unless reviews prove me wrong, so far they haven't.

 

[JustBenching]

point is moot, he is still saying DLSS quality is still worse than native in several games,

Again, completely irrelevant. He is not comparing a LOWER native res to a higher res with upscaling. Do you not actually understand the difference or are you just trolling at this point?

 

[Nordic]

the Steam Deck 2 which I probably will never buy as it will focus on a more premium screen

I won't be buying a Steam Deck 2 because the original Steam Deck fills my every need. I love the Steam Deck controls and Steam OS. I don't need a higher performing APU for the games I play on the Steam Deck. The games I play typically give me 6 hours of battery life. Valve and the others can't offer me a product with anything worth upgrading for and that is okay.

 

[R-T-B]

Also:

Video totally not brought to you by big frog.

 

[Jtuck9]

Video totally not brought to you by big frog.

You might also enjoy the book "Traffication: How Cars Destroy Nature and What We Can Do About It". "Frogger" can certainly be read as a cautionary tale...

 

[lexluthermiester]

You might also enjoy the book "Traffication: How Cars Destroy Nature and What We Can Do About It". "Frogger" can certainly be read as a cautionary tale...

I vote this comment "Funniest Comment of the month"!

 

[Jtuck9]

I vote this comment "Funniest Comment of the month"!

In all seriousness I can't stop thinking about the plight of the snails. Supposedly they can't, or won't, cross roads. Roads are creating tiny indigenous islands, without the biodiversity of the somewhere like the Galapagos...

 

[lexluthermiester]

In all seriousness I can't stop thinking about the plight of the snails. Supposedly they can't, or won't, cross roads. Roads are creating tiny indigenous islands, without the biodiversity of the somewhere like the Galapagos...

More you say? LOL!

Back to topic;
@Space Lynx and everyone
This happened;

What are your thoughts?

I think it's a solid upgrade from the OG SD. I don't care about the IPS screen VS the LED screen on the SD.
I like the formfactor better. Don't care about the touch pads not being there.
GOG and Epic libraries are still doable through the usual methods. Seems like a win to me.