RDNA 4 Fine Wine? (HUB Vid)

[LastDudeALive]

Which games were struggling to run? I only recall people whining over a few games not getting a bazillion FPS. An improvement is nice regardless of bug fixes, fine wine or whatever you want to call it RDNA4 users get a nice performance boost.

CS2 was. It's not necessarily a game-breaking problem since most people will be running competitive settings and be CPU-limited anyways, but the 9070 XT only matching the 4070 Super is a major problem any way you slice it. And with rumors of Half-Life 3, Source 2 engine performance will be VERY important, so AMD does need to get their act together and figure out why they can't run those games well.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

CS2 was. It's not necessarily a game-breaking problem since most people will be running competitive settings and be CPU-limited anyways, but the 9070 XT only matching the 4070 Super is a major problem any way you slice it. And with rumors of Half-Life 3, Source 2 engine performance will be VERY important, so AMD does need to get their act together and figure out why they can't run those games well.

To be fair I doubt people will be all that bothered if they can hit 200+ fps in HL3 people are acting like rdna4 can't hit 60fps

Unless they really revamp the source 2 engine or are developing source 3 to use with half life 3 I doubt it'll be a hardware seller this isnt 2004 when HL2 was cutting edge and new hardware was coming out every year.

Also I'll believe it exist when it gets announced we could have next generation gpus before that is even a thing.

To me all it seems AMD did was fix some cpu overhead issues with their driver it's why the gains at 1440p in affected titles is much better than 4k.

 

[wolf]

I mean 7 out of the 16 games chosen showed 0% gains and 10 showed less than 5%... I'm sure if HUB tried hard enough they could find 15-20 games that showed gains but did not going by your accusation of them fixing the results into a narrative they wanted to push.

They also chose to exclude RT titles altogether, and this being a head to head against the 5070Ti, it would have been more consistent to repeat the 50 game test suite that was done in that head to head imo. Call it an accusation if you want, I see a repeatable pattern with much of their feature content like this, where the testing (games and settings/resolutions) is chosen to support the desired conclusion of the piece. Even if this is the 16 games tested at launch (minus RT titles....), it's still purposely chosen by them to demonstrate this outcome (given the test suite and methodology changes virtually every time, they chose this suite), I'd even assert it was so deliberate as to ensure they could include fine wine in the title to stir everyone up. Steve knows exactly what he's doing.

 

[LabRat 891]

A "Fine Wine" argument for a 3 month old product feels so forced. It'd be better to just admit launch drivers were not performing to expectation to begin with. Still, happy to see improvements. It's not in anyone's interest to see AMD permanently wallow in mediocrity while the other company keeps jacking up their prices.

100%
"Fine Wine" is a true-copetrope about years/generations-aged AMD cards. -Not, current gen stuff.

9070 XT in Crossfire could have been the answer.

Verboten language.

Biff, you know better than anyone that CF is dead... and next to no games support multi GPU anymore. So many asterisks, ifs, and setbacks involved.

All true. BUT, not-crossfire not-mGPU, existed.

See also:

AMD Radeon Pro W6800X Duo Specs

AMD Navi 21 x2, 1967 MHz, 3840 Cores, 240 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 32768 MB GDDR6, 2000 MHz, 256 bit

www.techpowerup.com

There are less asterisks and no AFR, etc. complications, as the hardware resource(s) can be presented and utilized as a single device.


NtM (amusingly) If game rendering goes 'AI' instead of pure raster and ray trace,
multi-GPU will be there, already:

https://overclock3d.net/news/gpu-displays/amd-launches-rocm-6-1-enabling-multi-gpu-support-and-other-key-upgrades/

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I'd even assert it was so deliberate as to ensure they could include fine wine in the title to stir everyone up. Steve knows exactly what he's doing.

With as terrible as these two products are how else is he suppose to generate interest.

On the Nvidia side we got a card that couldn't even beat the previous generation 80 class card and isn't much better than the 4070ti super that was a year older and generally cost less and on the AMD side one that kinda sit's in the middle and finally has dropped to an ok price of $699 vs $899 for the 5070ti

I'm surprised how passionate people on both sides over these two turds from a generation progress standpoint are.

His content in this piece changes nothing the 9070XT performed close enough to the 5070ti at launch and it still does now..... Which he says in the conclusion that it just comes down to price in a specific region which turd is the better option.

TPU needs to both do a CPU and gpu update I hope W1z does one soon we got some Intel fanboys saying Arrow lake is so much better now as well. We might have to wait for the Super cards that will make the people who overspent on the non super cards feel a bunch of fomo.

 

[wolf]

With as terrible as these two products are how else is he suppose to generate interest.

This type of content is typical Steve, so I expect it from him now. What I expect from reviewers however is more consistency test-to-test, as well as more balance and temperance and certainly less purposeful stoking of fanboys, think W1zzards reviews and features. The more time goes on the more Steve does these one off articles, where he's noticed something he wants to show, so creates a video to show it (whether it's realistic, complaints a complete picture or not etc) and get people talking arguing, such is this very divided crowd.

 

[Macro Device]

isn't much better than the 4070ti super

Frankly I'm still surprised it isn't worse.

And I'm not surprised but still can't understand people who aren't completely against AMD in general and RDNA4 in particular. The greatest scam AMD have ever done and almost everyone seems okay with that.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

This type of content is typical Steve, so I expect it from him now. What I expect from reviewers however is more consistency test-to-test, as well as more balance and temperance and certainly less purposeful stoking of fanboys, think W1zzards reviews and features. The more time goes on the more Steve does these one off articles, where he's noticed something he wants to show, so creates a video to show it (whether it's realistic, complaints a complete picture or not etc) and get people talking arguing, such is this very divided crowd.

The fanboys fighting over which card is less of a turd is the only interesting thing from this generation..... It's been pretty comical to me.

For me it would be pretty boring content if everyone reviewed stuff the same Hub has it's style, GN has it's style, as well as TPU I both like and dislike some of the choices they all make but that is life.

Frankly I'm still surprised it isn't worse.

And I'm not surprised but still can't understand people who aren't completely against AMD in general and RDNA4 in particular. The greatest scam AMD have ever done and almost everyone seems okay with that.

Nvidia releasing one of their worse family of gpu's when it comes to a generation uplift helps a lot as far as the perception of the AMD cards. Not to mention the driver issues, availability issues etc.

That's just the internet though the vast majority of people who are buying gpu's which is prebuilts and laptops are still buying Nvidia. I mean if we think we are getting the shaft on the desktop go watch some laptop gpu reviews lol they are so bad and it's been bad for like 3 generations now.

 

[wolf]

The fanboys fighting over which card is less of a turd is the only interesting thing from this generation..... It's been pretty comical to me.

For me it would be pretty boring content if everyone reviewed stuff the same Hub has it's style, GN has it's style, as well as TPU I both like and dislike some of the choices they all make but that is life.

What I dislike the most is the purposeful and deliberate way that this HUB content Steve does to drive up the emoitional/fanboy reaction, I just can't respect that choice to colour his content that way. This includes his deliberate remarks and attitude like "I told you so" and "you're wrong, idiots" - he gets dragged down where he should rise above. Tech reviewers should try very hard to eliminate personal opinion from their reviews and provide readers with enough information to form their own educated opinions. I respect those reviews with their balance and temperance, and they respect me as a reader/viewer by giving me facts to form my own conclusions. This isn't Steve and why I stopped watching his videos.

Anyway I'm beating a dead horse now and have said what I wanted to say, including (and I'll reiterate) that the price of the cards was based off launch driver performance so this is good for 9070 series buyers (maybe 9060 too if the drivers hadn't already improved by their launch), and good in the sense that AMD has committed to improving performance and fixing the games that underperformed relative to the cards potential. It'd be nicer in a different sense if the performance wasn't sub-par in these games at launch for the image/reputation/product positioning, but at least consumers are the ones who benefitted here which is a rare win circa 2025.

Also interesting that in the most GPU limited situation (as per this test), the 5070Ti picked up 3% and the 9070XT 4%, indicating to me improvements in CPU bottlenecking are bigger than the improvement to outright performance of the card when as GPU limited as possible.

 

[sLowEnd]

HUB sure loves glazing Radeon cards lol

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

It would also be more than 2x power consumption, and performance would be limited by the fact that consumer CPUs can only do 2 PCIe 5.0 x8 GPU slots, so the communication between the GPUs and the CPU is gimped by that.

This was also a restriction 15 years ago. Running at PCIe 1.0 x8 x8 didnt stop us then.

And power use? Bruh, were you not around for the good ol days of Thermi? You haven't lived until you've seen a quad GTX 580 watercooled beast in a 10 slot case with 12+ fans on full blast and a 2kw PSU with a 450w additional PSU in the front to take some of the load off. People freak out over 4-5-600 watt GPU power use forgetting we've been here before (525w 295x2 says hi).

So much for being a low level API framework if the GPU manufacturers have to keep tweaking, bug fixes, and shader replacements.

You're telling me. I was really interested in mGPU and it's worked great....in the 10 games that support it. I'm really dissapointed that devs havent adapted to it more, given how heavy games are getting.

Maybe with DX13 MS will rip the band aid off and force it as a default option.

HUB sure loves glazing Radeon cards lol

People have accused HUB of being pro/anti everyone at this point. I can only assume that anyone who claims they are biased didnt bother actually reading or comparing any of their data.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

People have accused HUB of being pro/anti everyone at this point. I can only assume that anyone who claims they are biased didnt bother actually reading or comparing any of their data.

Yeah, you know someone doesn't watch any of their content when they say stuff like that I rarely see them recommending AMD gpus unless they are quite a bit cheaper than the Nvidia equivalent.

That's probably why I still enjoy them they tend to make fanboys upset from every hardware maker.

Nvidia fanboys being upset at them over the 8GB bs going around right now cracks me up, they are literally saying these companies should be selling you better gpus bruh lmao.

 

[phanbuey]

I think Tim is really fair and has great eye for detail, love his monitor reviews as well - but he will always recommend NV over AMD due to features unless the price is right.

Steve tends to downplay nvidia features but then gets really excited about the AMD equivalent when it rolls out 2 years later (DLSS, FSR 4, frame gen.)

He will still go after them for bad products - rx6400, and msrp shenanigans.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Steve tends to downplay nvidia features but then gets really excited about the AMD equivalent when it rolls out 2 years later (DLSS, FSR 4, frame gen.)

I think there is a lot of fatigue dealing with Nvidia going on right now from a lot of long time hardware reviewers.

Personally I don't really care about all that but people should make the content they want to make if Steve likes doing driver comparisons with 16 of the 18 games he used from his 9070XT launch review more power to him.


What we really need is a fresh cpu gaming bench although I suspect we won't see one till further down the line.

I'm looking forward to w1z using these drivers and seeing if in his suite he's seeing any difference.

Either way it won't change how I view this card but if it beats out its closes Nvidia alternative in a few benchmarks the Nvidia fanboy reaction will be entertaining at least.

 

[phanbuey]

yeah i wanna see an "intel fine wine" with a 265 k fully patched with the 300s boost enabled and some 8000 mhz ram vs the AMD lineup with recent bios updates and all.

The CPU reviews are always done on immature bioses and boards and then we never hear about it again.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

yeah i wanna see an "intel fine wine" with a 265 k fully patched with the 300s boost enabled and some 8000 mhz ram vs the AMD lineup with recent bios updates and all.

The CPU reviews are always done on immature bioses and boards and then we never hear about it again.

Steve talked about doing an update but at most he'll use 7200 on the intel platform.

Still it would be interesting if they at least matched raptor lake in a decent sized test suite.


Fine wine cracks me up is it really fine wine if a company just ironed out all the issues and the cards/cpu are performing how they should have at launch.

 

[Jtuck9]

"AMD is moving extremely quickly," Cerny said. "What I'm trying to do is prepare for the next generation of consoles, so my time-frame is multi-year here."

Reminded me of modern wine:

Is It Worth It to Age Wines Anymore?

Wine Spectator columnist Matt Kramer weighs the investment of time into properly aging wines against the possibility of diminished returns and suggests that no one should feel obliged to wait more than 10 years for a bottle, no matter its price or pedigree

www.winespectator.com

 

[LittleBro]

And I'm not surprised but still can't understand people who aren't completely against AMD in general and RDNA4 in particular. The greatest scam AMD have ever done and almost everyone seems okay with that.

Elaborate.
I can only think of one serious scam this year, that's Nvidia's famous "RTX 5070 = RTX 4090". Putting sign of equivalence between those two cards is extremely inappropriate.

What's AMD's scam with RDNA4? Not releasing enthusiast class GPU? They informed about it long time in advance to RX 9000 series launch.
In fact, back then we even did not know there would be RX 9000 series, people expected RX 8000 series back than. How is this a scam?

 

[io-waiter]

Improvements are nice, but sadly the DX12/Vulkan conundrum mention earlier is the reliance on the engines. Engines have given much better developer support and lower the costs for making games unfortunately there appears to be no good solution where engines are upgraded for specific games and no equivalent of the tuning that is currently done by the HW side (AMD and Nvidia drivers).

-> If a game runs bad on one GPU or an entire engine even, blame falls on the hardware or the driver, but rarely on the engine or the implementation in games. There should be room for improvement here.

I would also in my perfect world wish that the HW review sites to a step into more "science" and make new leap like the one made back in the day when sites like this pope-up and started to have standard deviation and other nice statistic things baked into the reviews, but sadly correctness and facts gives little in value in attention and click driven revenue, enshittification at it's finest =(
If one game out of ten has a 50% increase or most games get a 5% increase is the difference between what is likely a bug and general optimization.

 

[Macro Device]

What's AMD's scam with RDNA4?

Buckle up.

• A cheerful promise of introducing astonishing value mid-range cards.
• Hyping up FSR4 as a new savior for every gamer, be it a poor lad trying to get playable FPS or a minted geezer exploring his luxury options.
• "We care for gamers!"

All ended in GPUs released a lot later than nVidia GPUs; GPUs that even at MSRP don't do nothing (80 dollars cheaper than last gen card of effectively the same performance? seriously, mates?); FSR4 is so incredibly late to the party; there's no Vulkan support for FSR4 (at least as of when I checked); cards' prices are way over MSRPs, and availability is still atrocious in some parts of the world.

Fine, I can see how RDNA4 is a step forward. But I can't unsee how it's a whole journey back.

 

[Chomiq]

Meanwhile in Nvidia camp - latest driver caused graphical artifacts at idle states with my standard undervolt profile. Reverted to 572.83 and no such issues. Stay classy Nvidia.

 

[LittleBro]

Buckle up.

• A cheerful promise of introducing astonishing value mid-range cards.
• Hyping up FSR4 as a new savior for every gamer, be it a poor lad trying to get playable FPS or a minted geezer exploring his luxury options.
• "We care for gamers!"

All ended in GPUs released a lot later than nVidia GPUs; GPUs that even at MSRP don't do nothing (80 dollars cheaper than last gen card of effectively the same performance? seriously, mates?); FSR4 is so incredibly late to the party; there's no Vulkan support for FSR4 (at least as of when I checked); cards' prices are way over MSRPs, and availability is still atrocious in some parts of the world.

Fine, I can see how RDNA4 is a step forward. But I can't unsee how it's a whole journey back.

If you call all that what AMD did a scam, then what would you call Nvidia's "RTX 5070 = RTX 4090"?
First thing that comes to anyone's mind is: RTX 5070 is performing on par with RTX 4090. Reality is 40% behind RTX 4090.

 

[cinemaware]

They also chose to exclude RT titles altogether, and this being a head to head against the 5070Ti, it would have been more consistent to repeat the 50 game test suite that was done in that head to head imo. Call it an accusation if you want, I see a repeatable pattern with much of their feature content like this, where the testing (games and settings/resolutions) is chosen to support the desired conclusion of the piece. Even if this is the 16 games tested at launch (minus RT titles....), it's still purposely chosen by them to demonstrate this outcome (given the test suite and methodology changes virtually every time, they chose this suite), I'd even assert it was so deliberate as to ensure they could include fine wine in the title to stir everyone up. Steve knows exactly what he's doing.

That he does, he plays his faithful like a fiddle. Is it a case of "audience capture", or was he always like that?

As for the new driver gains, that sure is good news for 9070XT owners (I was one of them briefly too) and should be praised - within a reason. Because the reason many people choose to pay bit more for 5070Ti is not the raster performance, and not even RT, but mainly the DLSS itself.

 

[Redwoodz]

Buckle up.

• A cheerful promise of introducing astonishing value mid-range cards.
• Hyping up FSR4 as a new savior for every gamer, be it a poor lad trying to get playable FPS or a minted geezer exploring his luxury options.
• "We care for gamers!"

All ended in GPUs released a lot later than nVidia GPUs; GPUs that even at MSRP don't do nothing (80 dollars cheaper than last gen card of effectively the same performance? seriously, mates?); FSR4 is so incredibly late to the party; there's no Vulkan support for FSR4 (at least as of when I checked); cards' prices are way over MSRPs, and availability is still atrocious in some parts of the world.

Fine, I can see how RDNA4 is a step forward. But I can't unsee how it's a whole journey back.

Just imagine if RDNA4 had a 1% IPC lift over the previous gen like Nvidia has done. Carry on.

 

[Macro Device]

If you call all that what AMD did a scam, then what would you call Nvidia's "RTX 5070 = RTX 4090"?
First thing that comes to anyone's mind is: RTX 5070 is performing on par with RTX 4090. Reality is 40% behind RTX 4090.

This is not a thread about nVidia and if you actually read what I wrote you probably can guess I ain't happy with that nVidia were doing either. They're not the point. It's way too obvious nVidia did a very bad job. People can understand that. What they can't understand is AMD didn't do a better job.

Is a 550 dollar 9070 a faster GPU than a 500 dollar 7800 XT? Yes.
Is it much faster? In modern reality, rather yes.
Is it enough to call it a great product? Of course not.

It doesn't convincingly beat a 550 dollar 5070, a card everyone hates. It sells more expensive despite the same MSRP. It doesn't achieve anything that you can achieve with a similarly priced nVidia product.

Why in these circs should I only care what nVidia did wrong?