RDNA 4 Fine Wine? (HUB Vid)

[LittleBro]

Nvidia surely fucked up launch this time much worse than AMD. Nvidia still copes with driver nightmare. AMD brought at least some noticeable performance uplift based on architectural changes, not to mention they miracleously managed not to fuck drivers too much this time.

You really cannot say they fucked up equally. AMD did better job this time. Nvidia paved the road for them lol.

When talking about MSRP, please do mention also price that other cards are currently being sold at. Right now, RX 9070 XT offers on par performance with RTX 5070 Ti for around 20% less price. Or that a not good product to ya? Guess what prices are RTX 5090 and RTX 4090 retailing ... Hint: far, far away from MSRP. Simply put: forget about MSRP. It's a lie used to manipulate price/perf. ratio in reviews. There was no RTX 5090/80/70Ti present at MSRP. There was no RX 9070 XT and non-xt present at MSRP. AIBs and retailers want to have their own cut, too.

 

[Fouquin]

They also chose to exclude RT titles altogether, and this being a head to head against the 5070Ti, it would have been more consistent to repeat the 50 game test suite that was done in that head to head imo. Call it an accusation if you want, I see a repeatable pattern with much of their feature content like this, where the testing (games and settings/resolutions) is chosen to support the desired conclusion of the piece. Even if this is the 16 games tested at launch (minus RT titles....), it's still purposely chosen by them to demonstrate this outcome (given the test suite and methodology changes virtually every time, they chose this suite), I'd even assert it was so deliberate as to ensure they could include fine wine in the title to stir everyone up. Steve knows exactly what he's doing.

Well it's a good thing HWUB isn't producing novel content here, and we DO have numbers for RT games (and simply MORE games) courtesy of PCGamesHardware.de where you can see the gains made in RTRT and path tracing are also measurable.

 

[biffzinker]

yeah i wanna see an "intel fine wine" with a 265 k fully patched with the 300s boost enabled and some 8000 mhz ram vs the AMD lineup with recent bios updates and all.

The CPU reviews are always done on immature bioses and boards and then we never hear about it again.

Here’s the board with 8000 CAMM

https://videocardz.com/newz/g-skill-demonstrates-ddr5-camm2-memory-at-10000-mt-s-on-asus-z890-motherboard

 

[cinemaware]

Right now, RX 9070 XT offers on par performance with RTX 5070 Ti for around 20% less price

Half-truths are the life and blood of these threads, I guess.

Whether NVIDIA "fucked up launch this time" is an interesting question, I guess, but not the one I hope to be answered here. The internet is much more interested in picking up the low hanging fruit, such as the fact somebody on reddit said his connector melted, or that some other people had driver-related crashes (here's my anecdotal evidence: zero problems in 3 weeks I had my card). These are things that in the terminally-online era get amplified way out of proportion and are of no real significance.

What would be much more fascinating to know is how much of NVIDIA's fault was the real f-up this gen: the shortages and the reseller scalping. But I mean really know, not just somebody shouting "of course it;s Ngreedia's fault"!!11

 

[Zazigalka]

pcgh shows 9070xt equalling 5070ti in their latest roundup too, across all resolutions. it even wins by 1% at 1440p. I never trusted HUB, but I do trust PCGH

 

[R-T-B]

It'd be better to just admit launch drivers were not performing to expectation to begin with.

I'll be honest, I always felt that "fine wine" was the nice way of saying this, basically.

Improvements are nice, but massive improvements in a small timeframe just means your drivers sucked.

We all know RDNA2 and 3 aged like milk

I mean I just was pretty critical but those cards are still plenty usable, so not really. Hell I have a trade in offer from newegg for my 7900XTX for $750.00 right now, if I was dumb.

 

[Hyderz]

looks like there is more for rdna4 architecture

 

[JustBenching]

People are getting way too hung up over the title of the video that was obviously used for more clicks lol

Hub is quite well known for handpicking games and settings in said games to arrive at his desired conclusion. Not saying this is what happened here, but im saying he is definitely guilty of that.

When he was trying to prove that corecounts dont matter for gaming he tested 3 gsmes in total, all 3 of them notorious for being disgustingly single threaded (farcry, counterstrike and hogwarts). Its very very hard to take anything he says seriously, especially when he constantly keep changing graphical settings on the gsmes he is testing.

TPU needs to both do a CPU and gpu update I hope W1z does one soon we got some Intel fanboys saying Arrow lake is so much better now as well. We might have to wait for the Super cards that will make the people who overspent on the non super cards feel a bunch of fomo.

View attachment 406360View attachment 406361

Arrowlake? Its not beating the x3d i can tell you that much. At complete stock xmp the 285k is faster than my tuned 12900k which is plenty enough for me but it is still lagging behind 9800x 3d.

 

[wolf]

Nvidia still copes with driver nightmare.

Driver nightmares oh dear! What nightmare issues are you experiencing with your 50 series card?

 

[R-T-B]

Not sure if milk is the right ageing comparison here.

Its more like water. RDNA3 tastes exactly as it did on day one. Boring as shit - it plays games and doesn't bother me at all. Unbelievable!

To continue that analogy... these drivers are a bit like this, the dude even wears red AMD shorts

View attachment 406510

I wouldn't go that far. They made some pretty mad overhead improvements in OGL/DX11... but again it was because opengl and DX11 had been dog slow with them for decades dating back to literal ATI, so its not really a praise situation.

Driver nightmares oh dear! What nightmare issues are you experiencing with your 50 series card?

My card flickers with SpecialK in fast sync mode. Oh my the humanity! I can't just literally change one setting to fix it. /s

 

[Vayra86]

I wouldn't go that far. They made some pretty mad overhead improvements in OGL/DX11... but again it was because opengl and DX11 had been dog slow with them for decades dating back to literal ATI, so its not really a praise situation.

Clearly leaves in the pool right? You can swim, but they're damn annoying to get stuck to your face.

 

[Event Horizon]

Not sure if milk is the right ageing comparison here.

Its more like water. RDNA3 tastes exactly as it did on day one. Boring as shit - it plays games and doesn't bother me at all. Unbelievable!

To continue that analogy... these drivers are a bit like this, the dude even wears red AMD shorts

View attachment 406510

I like that. Nothing wrong with water.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Not sure if milk is the right ageing comparison here.

Its more like water. RDNA3 tastes exactly as it did on day one. Boring as shit - it plays games and doesn't bother me at all. Unbelievable!

To continue that analogy... these drivers are a bit like this, the dude even wears red AMD shorts

View attachment 406510

I think what people mean by that is RDNA3 was basically abandoned on day 1 of RDNA4 and unlike pascal that faced a similar situation DLSS1 sucked ass so it not being able to use some of the latest technologies wasn't a big deal for a few years at least till DLSS2 became prevalent.


Personally I am glad I did not recommend a single RDNA3 gpu to anyone I personally know and my one reservation with RDNA4 is will AMD continue to properly support it once they switch to UDNA.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

Driver nightmares oh dear! What nightmare issues are you experiencing with your 50 series card?

50 series card owners have reported issues withf lickering, black screens, crashes, ece.

You can google this. If AMD was doing this, you'd be all over them for having bad drivers. But when AMD has good drivers and nvidia screws up, suddenly "oh you didnt see it personally on your 50 series card? Then it doesnt exist" which is WCCF tier trash.

nVidia has acknowledged these issues exist. They have royally screwed the pooch on drivers for Blackwell, and they deserve admonishment for dropping the ball like this.

My card flickers with SpecialK in fast sync mode. Oh my the humanity! I can't just literally change one setting to fix it. /s

nVidia is worth $3.89 trillion dollars. They can provide working drivers.

I think what people mean by that is RDNA3 was basically abandoned on day 1 of RDNA4 and unlike pascal that faced a similar situation DLSS1 sucked ass so it not being able to use some of the latest technologies wasn't a big deal for a few years at least till DLSS2 became prevalent.


Personally I am glad I did not recommend a single RDNA3 gpu to anyone I personally know and my one reservation with RDNA4 is will AMD continue to properly support it once they switch to UDNA.

rDNA3 has not been abandoned.

This may shock you, but the previous generation of cards doesnt receive optimizations once it is no longer sold. AMD does this. NVidia also does this.
rDNA 1 is still getting bugfixes.

 

[JustBenching]

If AMD was doing this

But AMD IS doing this. Users of RDNA 4 cards have reported issues with crashing, flickering, black screens etc.

Why are we ignoring it?

 

[Dr. Dro]

Driver nightmares oh dear! What nightmare issues are you experiencing with your 50 series card?

Apparently the root cause of one of the general stability issues was having a Ryzen CPU, which is kind of insane, really. Wonder if it's some sort of compiler issue. In any case, I don't seem to have run into such issues with Zen 3, so I guess it must only affect the newer models. Maybe I was lucky.

Fixed General Bugs
FIXED - Black screen when installing drivers on some AMD Ryzen configurations [5107271]

 

[JustBenching]

Apparently the root cause of one of the general stability issues was having a Ryzen CPU, which is kind of insane, really. Wonder if it's some sort of compiler issue. In any case, I don't seem to have run into such issues with Zen 3, so I guess it must only affect the newer models. Maybe I was lucky.

Was the case with FG in diablo 4 and some other games, it stuttered like crazy on ryzen cpus. Guess ngreedia is trying to badmouth AMD

 

[Hecate91]

50 series card owners have reported issues withf lickering, black screens, crashes, ece.

You can google this. If AMD was doing this, you'd be all over them for having bad drivers. But when AMD has good drivers and nvidia screws up, suddenly "oh you didnt see it personally on your 50 series card? Then it doesnt exist" which is WCCF tier trash.

nVidia has acknowledged these issues exist. They have royally screwed the pooch on drivers for Blackwell, and they deserve admonishment for dropping the ball like this.

He'll probably call you biased for even mentioning 50 series issues.
The 50 series driver issues are well reported on, but the diehard fans ignore it like it never happened, after numerous hotfixes and there are still reports of blackscreens or crashes here, Nvidia doesn't seem to care about drivers with their consumer cards. And it's sad the same team green fans refuse to believe AMD can have good drivers, but the 9000 series seem to be having much less driver issues.
Although no company has perfect drivers, IMO the best thing to do unless you need drivers for a new game, or there is a significant performance improvement is to keep using the same GPU driver.

But AMD IS doing this. Users of RDNA 4 cards have reported issues with crashing, flickering, black screens etc.

Why are we ignoring it?

Source? Using reddit is not a trustworthy source though, many inexperienced people will whine about their hardware on reddit, or those who haven't ran DDU after replacing their graphics card.

 

[JustBenching]

Source? Using reddit is not a trustworthy source though, many inexperienced people will whine about their hardware on reddit, or those who haven't ran DDU after replacing their graphics card.

The same sources you used to claim nvidias drivers are problematic. You are literally using reddit posts when it comes to 12vh melting But,when it comes to amd a huge reddit megathread full of issues isn't enough proof, lol.

But sure, just walk over the rdna 4 owners thread here in this very forum, you won't have to go really far back to start reading posts like "damn, beta drivers again", "updated to latest drivers and my sensors are now gone, rolling back to the previous version". Boy please. Just stop.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

If it wasn't for the back and fourth between Red/Green Kool-Aid drinkers this generation would be so boring

 

[Hecate91]

If it wasn't for the back and fourth between Red/Green Kool-Aid drinkers this generation would be so boring

Agreed, 9070XT has been more exciting, but cards from either company have been too expensive for not enough progress.

You are literally using reddit posts when it comes to 12vh melting But,when it comes to amd a huge reddit megathread full of issues isn't enough proof, lol.

It isn't just reddit posts regarding 12vhwpr melting, tech youtubers have talked about it, there are plenty of posts here, Northridgefix and Northwestrepair have done plenty of videos fixing melted plugs. But of course the green koolaid drinkers still insist users are to blame for a cable with poor load balancing and a retention clip that just sucks compared to the 8 pin connector.
And you keep repeating on some AMD reddit megathread, no a reddit thread isn't enough proof because if it was such an issue there would be tons of news articles, threads on it here, and the team green mindshare would take every chance to say AMD's drivers suck.

But sure, just walk over the rdna 4 owners thread here in this very forum, you won't have to go really far back to start reading posts like "damn, beta drivers again", "updated to latest drivers and my sensors are now gone, rolling back to the previous version". Boy please. Just stop.

I'm not walking over anything, the green koolaid drinkers have been walking all over every AMD thread lately.
How far back was that though? Rolling back drivers to the previous version is a better solution than at least 10 hotfixes causing blackscreens and crashes.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Agreed, 9070XT has been more exciting, but cards from either company have been too expensive for not enough progress.

It's more exciting vs RDNA3 for sure but to me it's just a slightly better 4070ti super a year later for either a little less money or a little more money depending on where you live and how long you've waited to buy it since it launched.


I do hope @W1zzard does a comprehensive benchmark with these drivers if they land it closer to a 5080 that would be cool I guess for the $699 it's going for right now. I don't mind if he only benches it vs the 5070ti to make it less time consuming even though it probably would require a ton of work regardless.

 

[R-T-B]

nVidia is worth $3.89 trillion dollars. They can provide working drivers.

The drivers arguably work for me. *shrugs*

Yes, I found one bug. AMD has em too. Not really worried.

 

[wolf]

50 series card owners have reported issues withf lickering, black screens, crashes, ece.

You can google this.

I don't need to, I own one. And what I tire of is hearing exaggerated commentary about a given product from people who don't use them. Most 50 serries users would be unlucky to have experienced one or two bugs so far, but according to someone who doesn't use one, it's been a nightmare.

If AMD was doing this, you'd be all over them for having bad drivers.

Would I? Like the two times earlier in this thread I congratulated AMD for improving RDNA4 drivers and essentially delivering more value to 9070 buyers which is a win for them.

Or the time recently I said that AMD's driver reputation is exaggerated and outdated.

Maybe don't assume what I would or would not do.

But when AMD has good drivers and nvidia screws up, suddenly "oh you didnt see it personally on your 50 series card? Then it doesnt exist" which is WCCF tier trash.

Also not what I've said, I openly admit to having had a 50 series driver issue (overclocking bug), far from a nightmare though. Again a word chosen by someone who couldn't possibly be affected.

But I suppose I just drink the greed kool-aid and only ever praise Nvidia and only ever criticise AMD, never mind how many of their products I own, use and genuinely enjoy

Seems easier for some to just paint me into that corner so they can appear to claim a perceived yet non existent moral high ground.

 

[evernessince]

What would be much more fascinating to know is how much of NVIDIA's fault was the real f-up this gen: the shortages and the reseller scalping. But I mean really know, not just somebody shouting "of course it;s Ngreedia's fault"!!11

Let's be clear here, both AMD and Nvidia are responsible for their own product launches. Certain things influence these like AI and demand but ultimately the buck stops at them. There isn't a universe where scalpers are at fault because they entirely rely on Nvidia having low stock releases. Nvidia enables scalpers, they don't exist without the conditions Nvidia creates. It'd be one thing if we were talking about a new product type where demand is uncertain or a small company that doesn't have enough capital to purchase a lot of launch inventory but neither of these are remotely the case.

AI is certainly a factor, one merely look at Nvidia's revenue to see where their priorities are. That said, it's ultimately up to Nvidia to decide how to allocate chips. AI sucking up the supply doesn't get them off the hook. They are prioritizing AI at the cost of gamers, Nvidia is to blame for that, obviously.

The same standard of course also applies to AMD.