AMD Ryzen 9 9950X Prices Slashed by a Third Over MSRP, Drops to $434

[Chrispy_]

From what I'm seeing in motherboard reviews this component also has a surprinsing influence on the fps. So if I were buying something like the 9950X, if it saved me a significant amount compared to the 9950X3D I would get it without looking back, a few fps here and there aren't worth a pair of headphones or a mouse + pad or a keyboard etc.

Yeah, I've noticed this starting to become a thing again. For at least 15 years, there was a period where motherboards didn't contribute significantly to the performance - you just had to buy one that had the features you wanted.

Especially for gaming on AM5 we're starting to see real differences between the best and worst boards, I'm just glad I've inadvertently picked good boards that perform near the top of the charts. Definitely luck not judgement!

 

[Hecate91]

AM5 is a no-go for me.
I'd rather wait for AM6 which returns to the AM4 philosophy and non-LGA arrangement. Let's also hope they fixed the terrible chiplets misalignment and put a thin IHS, so that the temperatures are in check.

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www.techpowerup.com

All of the news and rumors for AM6 so far are that it will be LGA, and apparently the distance between the IO die and chiplets will be less.
I think the IHS is fine with AM5, better to have cooler compatibility, and a thicker IHS means the CPU is much less prone to flexing in the socket. Intel arrow lake still has bending issues because Intel didn't make the socket retention fix standard on all of their boards.

Ironic that you say this but this is exactly the situation in the GPU space. Let me repost what you wrote:

“In regards to AMD, I think they are doomed in regards to GPU DIY, doesn’t matter how good a product they have, the mindshare just isn’t there.”

See how your own statement can define our frustration in other markets like GPUs. It’s infuriating to see good tech overlooked due to ‘mindshare’ isn’t it?

Exactly, the double standards from some people are ironically funny.

 

[Daven]

Of course they dont, if you take out of the equation the much higher mt performance. The fact that you dodged the question says it all, you aren't being genuine here.


This is not an amd gpu..?

My point is AMD and Intel win big in some CPU benchmarks against each other. It’s even closer in the GPU space when it comes to games. However Nvidia wins in many GPU compute task but that’s also changing. Outside some usage cases where you pick the right tech that makes sense, Intel, AMD and Nvidia all make good products.

Edit: outside application usage cases, many of us don’t like Nvidia and Intel business practices that have lead to massive problems in the tech industry. This is a separate issue.

 

[JustBenching]

My point is AMD and Intel win big in some CPU benchmarks against each other. It’s even closer in the GPU space when it comes to games. However Nvidia wins in many GPU compute task but that’s also changing. Outside some usage cases where you pick the right tech that makes sense, Intel, AMD and Nvidia all make good tech.

Lets take it a step back cause i think there was miscommunication.

You said a similar situation exists in the gpu space. I said it doesnt cause there is no amd GPU that is 50 to 80% faster than an nvidia gpu. Then you gave me an example of an amd CPU while i was talking about GPUS.

 

[igormp]

So, LGA uses less pins ?

No, LGA allows to have more pins in the same area.

 

[_roman_]

#54 I think the am5 socket is badly designed. I replaced parts of the am5 socket with the thermalright socket. E.g. techpowerup also sometimes uses that replacement sockets in some cpu reviews.

 

[A Computer Guy]

#54 I think the am5 socket is badly designed.

I second thought this because the AM offset kit I got wouldn't work. Of the at least two socket retention designs I ended up with the motherboard that had metal tabs in the way so I can't get the full offset realignment for the cores with my older water block.

Everyone ought to know that the efficiency nosedives and performance gains are on very diminishing returns by the point you're pushing AM5 above 200W. Just spend 10 minutes tuning an undervolt with curve modifier and get 5.5GHz performance at 180W. Heck, Ryzen Master will even do it automatically for you on a per-core basis. Click a button, walk away, and come back an hour later to some settings that you can plug into the BIOS and forget about.

Well not exactly in that I've never found Ryzen master to give me consistent or reliable curve optimizer results. It's a nice concept but I don't think AMD eats their own dogfood when it comes to Ryzen Master so it ends up producing poor results and never getting better.

 

[Sol_Badguy]

Especially for gaming on AM5 we're starting to see real differences between the best and worst boards, I'm just glad I've inadvertently picked good boards that perform near the top of the charts. Definitely luck not judgement!

Same behavior on Arrow Lake:

ASRock Phantom Gaming Z890 Riptide Wi-Fi Review

With Intel dishing out price cuts and performance boosts left and right, Arrow Lake is starting to look attractive, at least at certain price points. If you want an overclocking motherboard with solid specifications and attractive aesthetics, then ASRock might just have the product for you.

www.techpowerup.com

Gaming mobos, just what the world needed!
Really nasty when a mobo has Gaming in its name but it's at the bottom of game charts.

But since we are discussing, here is one of many examples where AMD dominates Intel as you asked for:

Awww no 7-Zip??? Why are we comparing the 285K to the 9950X3D instead of the 9950X?
Those are in the same price bracket therefore they're supposed to compete with each other.
All that dominating yet on average the 9950X3D is 7% faster than the 285K.
Man I can't wait for that 200S Boost + proper speed RAM review to show you people how much more balanced the situation actually is.
Wait for it.

nVidia has the 5080 which is basically a 9950X3D, the 5070 Ti is a 9950X and the 9070XT is the 285K.
Yeah vastly different MSRPs I know it's a bit forced, let's roll with it for the sake of argument, so just because the 5080 exists and is "dominating" the 9070XT doesn't mean they should be compared with each other, when the 5070 Ti is the opposing product.
nVidia also has the 5090 which has no competition, just because it's there doesn't mean we should start making comparisons other than academic.
Whoever has the money for the 5090 buys it period (the 5080 seems to have its fair share of buyers). The same with 9950X3D whoever has the money doesn't dwell on it, now if the budget is strictly limited to 9950X/285K then sure we start comparing, making lists of pros and cons, checking results for the intended usage etc.

It honestly feels that whenever someone wants to give the point to AMD they inevitably use an X3D CPU to compare against Intel. Almost never a vanilla one. I wonder why?

 

[JustBenching]

Almost never a vanilla one. I wonder why?

Because 720p gaming performance with a 5090 is the only thing that matters for some people. Regardless of the fact that they dont have a 5090 and they dont play at 720p.

I think the 9950x is great, and so is the 285k. They are both plenty fast in games, its kinda silly suggesting otherwise.

 

[blinnbanir]

There is one thing that the 285K fans do not realize. There are many generations of MB you can put these in. AM5 has A620 to X870E and there are plenty of users that can have just a CPU upgrade. The narrative around 12 core CPUs has failed with the 9900X3D being the 5900X of the AM5 generation. It is actually more expensive today than when I got mine at launch. So the X3D tax has been applied. The productivity improvement for 9000 over 7000 in X3D is that good but the 9900X and 9950X are super fast but this trend started with the 7000 series as well. I will still contend that some of this has to do with the economy though.

 

[Hecate91]

#54 I think the am5 socket is badly designed. I replaced parts of the am5 socket with the thermalright socket. E.g. techpowerup also sometimes uses that replacement sockets in some cpu reviews.

Did the socket frame lower temps at all? The only reason I have seen to use one is to keep the thermal paste mess off the gaps in the IHS.
Edit- I didn't consider a offset bracket before, that may be worth doing for an OC but I personally don't want to remove a socket mechanism.

Gaming mobos, just what the world needed!
Really nasty when a mobo has Gaming in its name but it's at the bottom of game charts.

Gaming motherboards haven't meant better quality or performance for a while, though the sad thing to me is motherboards are only getting more expensive, and the features that even midrange boards had are only on high end boards.

It honestly feels that whenever someone wants to give the point to AMD they inevitably use an X3D CPU to compare against Intel. Almost never a vanilla one. I wonder why?

Yet the Intel CPU is supposed to get the point when using an OC feature and 8000MT/s RAM? I've seen the boost and faster RAM thing get repeated so much when it isn't even a fair comparison either.

 

[Daven]

Lets take it a step back cause i think there was miscommunication.

You said a similar situation exists in the gpu space. I said it doesnt cause there is no amd GPU that is 50 to 80% faster than an nvidia gpu. Then you gave me an example of an amd CPU while i was talking about GPUS.

I was drawing an example where something can have a dominate position in the benchmarks but not necessarily a dominate position in the market. Intel still has close to 70% of the X86 market. I'm arguing that benchmarks have nothing to do with market dominance. As you said, it's about mindshare. Intel has been losing mindshare slowly over time but still has a dominate position even though it's products are not that much different than AMDs. Nvidia has 90% of the GPU market because of mindshare as well. If you were to ask a PC gamer why they choose Nvidia over AMD, you would get two answers from 99% of the gamers:

1. There's another GPU other than Nvidia?
2. What's a GPU?

Don't forget that we here are highly knowledgeable but the vast majority of customers get their information from again...mindshare. It's true in almost every industry. So to back way up, anything we post about performance percentages, benchmarks, etc. is irrelevant. I agree with you about mindshare. When a company has it, it dominates even though the competitors are not that much different.

Awww no 7-Zip??? Why are we comparing the 285K to the 9950X3D instead of the 9950X?

The 9950X and the 285K are in the same screenshot. I was taking the results from the latest TPU processor review. It shows a case where the 9950X is still way ahead of the 285K.

 

[JustBenching]

I was drawing an example where something can have a dominate position in the benchmarks but not necessarily a dominate position in the market. Intel still has close to 70% of the X86 market. I'm arguing that benchmarks have nothing to do with market dominance. As you said, it's about mindshare. Intel has been losing mindshare slowly over time but still has a dominate position even though it's products are not that much different than AMDs. Nvidia has 90% of the GPU market because of mindshare as well. If you were to ask a PC gamer why they choose Nvidia over AMD, you would get two answers from 99% of the gamers:

But with nvidia it's not about mindshare, that is the point im contesting. They've been at the top of the GPU stack for the better part of a decade delivering products consistently. It's freaking ludicrous to suggest it's mindshare when amd has consistently skipped entire segments in multiple generations. Can you give me a point in time for the last 10 years that "wanting to buy the best GPU available" would lead you to buying an amd card? I'm really curious, cause I always wanted to buy the fastest GPUs and the answer to my need was never an amd gpu from 2015 onwards (I owned multi amd gpus before that point cause they were actually super competitive / better than nvidia)

 

[Sol_Badguy]

Yet the Intel CPU is supposed to get the point when using an OC feature and 8000MT/s RAM? I've seen the boost and faster RAM thing get repeated so much when it isn't even a fair comparison either.

It's not supposed to get anything. I said:

how much more balanced the situation actually is

Meaning closing the gap.

Lol at "OC feature", it's covered by warranty and doesn't increase power draw, on top of that it doesn't increase core frequency like proper OC does. It's less OC-like than the XMP profile for RAM.
Okay I see, by your reaction I can imagine the shock and awe the AMD crowd will have after that review.
Can't wait!

See here all the relevant arguments.
I never advocated for 8000 RAM.
Fair is fair, even if memory speeds are mismatched.
If Ryzen gets OCed RAM so should Arrow Lake. Proportional increase over rated speed. Deal with it.
Oh and if AMD is so much better how can 1 or 2 percent increase for Arrow Lake turn the tables?
Isn't AMD "miles" ahead? A few yards won't change the outcome, unless...

The 9950X and the 285K are in the same screenshot. I was taking the results from the latest TPU processor review. It shows a case where the 9950X is still way ahead of the 285K.

Fair enough. My bad, I misunderstood, because you said dominating I assumed it was the X3D.

The 9950X is clearly ahead, I don't know if I would use "dominating" to describe that, but it's clearly better nonetheless.

Okay so in that case I could use the Black Magic RAW results to say that the 9950X has its own weaknesses, right?

 

[Chrispy_]

Did the socket frame lower temps at all? The only reason I have seen to use one is to keep the thermal paste mess off the gaps in the IHS.

Gaming motherboards haven't meant better quality or performance for a while, though the sad thing to me is motherboards are only getting more expensive, and the features that even midrange boards had are only on high end boards.

Yet the Intel CPU is supposed to get the point when using an OC feature and 8000MT/s RAM? I've seen the boost and faster RAM thing get repeated so much when it isn't even a fair comparison either.

Yeah, "Gaming" usually means "add some stupid RGBLED and garish decals, then increase the price by 30%"

Well not exactly in that I've never found Ryzen master to give me consistent or reliable curve optimizer results. It's a nice concept but I don't think AMD eats their own dogfood when it comes to Ryzen Master so it ends up producing poor results and never getting better.

I find it gives a ballpark result. At the very least it'll work out which cores are your best and worst. For an automatic tool you can walk away from, I honestly don't think it's bad.

I'll typically try curve optimiser with -30 on all cores and run an OCCT stability test for an hour. If it fails I'll shove it through Ryzen Master, take the per-core results and add +8 to the results to hopefully guarantee it's rock stable and well away from the actual limit of stability.

 

[Daven]

But with nvidia it's not about mindshare, that is the point im contesting. They've been at the top of the GPU stack for the better part of a decade delivering products consistently. It's freaking ludicrous to suggest it's mindshare when amd has consistently skipped entire segments in multiple generations. Can you give me a point in time for the last 10 years that "wanting to buy the best GPU available" would lead you to buying an amd card? I'm really curious, cause I always wanted to buy the fastest GPUs and the answer to my need was never an amd gpu from 2015 onwards (I owned multi amd gpus before that point cause they were actually super competitive / better than nvidia)

I can't speak to your needs as your mind is already made up and then some. But I can speak about the overall market. Here is a popular graph that people like to share:

According to you, AMD should be zero at all points of this graph. Even though it only goes to 2017, we all know that its shifts big time in Nvidia favor more recently. AMD even managed to stay above 30% market share preventing an outright monopoly for most of that time. While Nvidia was always on top, AMD and Nvidia switched back and forth with GPU quality over the years until recently when Nvidia did three things to increase it's mindshare:

1. Convince users that it's drivers are better and AMD drivers are inferior (NOT TRUE)
2. Convince users that you need DLSS (even @W1zzard made the bias decision in some reviews to tell users not to buy anything without DLSS, a proprietary Nvidia tech)
3. Convince users that you need RT (99% of games don't have it)

With the above three, Nvidia increased its mindshare even though general rasterization supported by 99%+ of games was similar to the competing AMD solution. We all know that the 7900XTX, 9070XT, 5070Ti, 4080, 4080S and 5080 are all within 20% of each other in general rasterization. These parts make a huge part of purchased GPUs. But AMD has a < 10% marketshare and Nvidia has >90% marketshare. That's not because of benchmarks but mindshare (most gamers don't use DLSS and RT or even know what they are or how to activate it).

I will grant Nvidia this much, their marketing department is very good. AMD's marketing department will never win any awards given their past performance.

Okay so in that case I could use the Black Magic RAW results to say that the 9950X has its own weaknesses, right?

That's right.

 

[ARF]

No, LGA allows to have more pins in the same area.

How? Or you mean more but thinner?
It's better for AMD to start from zero with AM6. They don't need any compatibility with AM4 and AM5 coolers.
What they need to do is to place the compute chiplets in the centre of the socket, while the IO die should be placed in the periphery - this is because the compute chiplets produce the larger part of the heat, and the cooling will be more efficient.
As for bending - if it is designed right, not by monkeys or AI, it will be fine, even if the IHS is 0.1 mm thick.

 

[JustBenching]

I can't speak to your needs as your mind is already made up and then some. But I can speak about the overall market. Here is a popular graph that people like to share:

It seems that you are the one that made up his mind. The graph paints a clear picture, between maxwell and pascal nvidias popularity skyrocketed - back then there was no RT or DLSS. So clearly, it isn't about nvidia convincing anyone of anything, they just had the better products. Period full stop.

1. Convince users that it's drivers are better and AMD drivers are inferior (NOT TRUE)
2. Convince users that you need DLSS (even @W1zzard made the bias decision in some reviews to tell users not to buy anything without DLSS, a proprietary Nvidia tech)
3. Convince users that you need RT (99% of games don't have it)

That's not because of benchmarks but mindshare (most gamers don't use DLSS and RT or even know what they are or how to activate it).

Nvidia drivers are better than amd's the last decade or so, and yeah upscaling and RT are devilishly awesome. If most gamers don't know what RT and DLSS are then how did nvidia manage to convince them they need it? You are not making much sense my man.

 

[Daven]

It seems that you are the one that made up his mind.

No, I buy Nvidia and AMD unlike you.

The graph paints a clear picture, between maxwell and pascal nvidias popularity skyrocketed - back then there was no RT or DLSS.

Again this says nothing of quality or performance. As I've pointed out countless times, Intel still maintains over 70% market share even though AMD is quite competitive and better in many ways because of mindshare. Same goes for Nvidia. They maintain higher market share because of mind share.

So clearly, it isn't about nvidia convincing anyone of anything, they just had the better products. Period full stop.

No.

Nvidia drivers are better than amd's the last decade or so, and yeah upscaling and RT are devilishly awesome.

No and no.

If most gamers don't know what RT and DLSS are then how did nvidia manage to convince them they need it? You are not making much sense my man.

Why do people buy Ford over Chevy? Why do people buy a PC over a Mac? Why do people buy an Android phone over an iPhone? Why do people buy Coke over Pepsi? Most of our society understands mindshare and how marketing can get people to buy one product over another even when both products are similar. Sometimes it comes down to individual taste. Sometimes it comes down to careful research. Sometimes it comes down to peer pressure. I still don't know why you are not understanding that most of the market is not picking Nvidia because they are better. Humans don't research their product purchasing decisions that carefully every time. You will just have to understand that 99.999999999999999% of GPU users don't care about Nvidia, don't know what a GPU is, don't know anything about anything except that their buddy told them to buy it, or they saw it in a commercial, or etc etc etc etc.

I just can't believe I'm explaining commercialism to anyone in this day in age. It's unbelievable.

Edit: But let's just take the TPU community. You, JustBenching, explain to me why AMD has 55% of the frontpage poll, Intel has 10% and Nvidia has 35% after 6,747 votes? Explain to me why Nvidia is not 100% and AMD and Intel are not 0%?

 

[JustBenching]

No, I buy Nvidia and AMD unlike you.

Me 2. Boom

Which of my 4 full amd laptops or my 3 ryzen desktop CPUs scream to you that I don't buy amd?

Again this says nothing of quality or performance. As I've pointed out countless times, Intel still maintains over 70% market share even though AMD is quite competitive and better in many ways because of mindshare. Same goes for Nvidia. They maintain higher market share because of mind share.

But your argument to support your thesis is self refuting. You claim at the same time that people don't know what RT and DLSS is - but nvidia convinced everyone that they need RT and DLSS. That is just self refuting man.

Edit: But let's just take the TPU community. You, JustBenching, explain to me why AMD has 55% of the frontpage poll, Intel has 10% and Nvidia has 35% after 6,747 votes? Explain to me why Nvidia is not 100% and AMD and Intel are not 0%?

Oh that's an easy one. It's not just the TPU community, it's the same with every community. Lot's of AMD vocal fans on the internet. Daniel Owen has dedicated an entire video talking about this - cause he noticed the exact same thing , amd wins in his polls but not in real life. Then he made the obvious connection to what all that anti nvidia / intel content exists, it's because the amd fandom just clicks that kind of content like madmen.

Like for example - in this very forum, every other week you read 5 to 10 posts calling anyone who buys nvidia either an idiot or sheep. That rarely if EVER happens the other direction.

 

[Daven]

Me 2. Boom

Which of my 4 full amd laptops or my 3 ryzen desktop CPUs scream to you that I don't buy amd?

So you are currently using discrete AMD video cards?

But your argument to support your thesis is self refuting. You claim at the same time that people don't know what RT and DLSS is - but nvidia convinced everyone that they need RT and DLSS. That is just self refuting man.

I can't believe I have to say this but yes many people buy things based on a spec they think they need but don't know what it is. It's the whole basis behind the word "Fahrvergnügen".

Oh that's an easy one. It's not just the TPU community, it's the same with every community. Lot's of AMD vocal fans on the internet. Daniel Owen has dedicated an entire video talking about this - cause he noticed the exact same thing , amd wins in his polls but not in real life. Then he made the obvious connection to what all that anti nvidia / intel content exists, it's because the amd fandom just clicks that kind of content like madmen.

Like for example - in this very forum, every other week you read 5 to 10 posts calling anyone who buys nvidia either an idiot or sheep. That rarely if EVER happens the other direction.

So you are saying that people are idiots and you are not? You are also saying some guy in an interview also says people are idiots but not him and not you? I don't think the TPU community will appreciate being called idiots. By the way, the TPU community could be buying AMD more than Nvidia which wouldn't be the first or last time tech enthusiasts buy differently than the market at large. I can't speak for the greater TPU community but my interpretation of the data here at TPU and my 40 years of owning computers says I should buy AMD over Nvidia. Am I an idiot?

 

[Redwoodz]

Me 2. Boom

Which of my 4 full amd laptops or my 3 ryzen desktop CPUs scream to you that I don't buy amd?


But your argument to support your thesis is self refuting. You claim at the same time that people don't know what RT and DLSS is - but nvidia convinced everyone that they need RT and DLSS. That is just self refuting man.


Oh that's an easy one. It's not just the TPU community, it's the same with every community. Lot's of AMD vocal fans on the internet. Daniel Owen has dedicated an entire video talking about this - cause he noticed the exact same thing , amd wins in his polls but not in real life. Then he made the obvious connection to what all that anti nvidia / intel content exists, it's because the amd fandom just clicks that kind of content like madmen.

Like for example - in this very forum, every other week you read 5 to 10 posts calling anyone who buys nvidia either an idiot or sheep. That rarely if EVER happens the other direction.

You must be young. The people you call AMD fanboys have a much longer memory than yours. They remember the decades of AMD trolling on every tech site in the industry, inc. reviewers. Team Blue did WAAAY more hate bashing than you have ever experienced going the other way.

People with long memories and the basic understanding that monopolies are very bad for tech know that you have to root for the underdog to succeed and support them when you can.

 

[A Computer Guy]

I find it gives a ballpark result. At the very least it'll work out which cores are your best and worst. For an automatic tool you can walk away from, I honestly don't think it's bad.

I'll typically try curve optimiser with -30 on all cores and run an OCCT stability test for an hour. If it fails I'll shove it through Ryzen Master, take the per-core results and add +8 to the results to hopefully guarantee it's rock stable and well away from the actual limit of stability.

I suppose from that standpoint is has some usefulness. I just wish AMD went all-in to make it work flawlessly out of the box especially considering the long term socket support they are offering with these features.

 

[JustBenching]

So you are currently using discrete AMD video cards?

Yeap, laptop dGPUs. Because RT is useless on laptop and fsr 3 is good enough on a small screen that the lack of dlss doesnt bother me that much.

Also im only buying amd cpus for laptops, because unlike their desktop counterparts, amd mobile chips are super crazy efficient on all kinds of tasks.

So you are saying that people are idiots and you are not? You are also saying some guy in an interview also says people are idiots but not him and not you? I don't think the TPU community will appreciate being called idiots. By the way, the TPU community could be buying AMD more than Nvidia which wouldn't be the first or last time tech enthusiasts buy differently than the market at large. I can't speak for the greater TPU community but my interpretation of the data here at TPU and my 40 years of owning computers says I should buy AMD over Nvidia. Am I an idiot?

I don't know how you reached that conclusion. Ive never called anyone an idiot based on the hardware he is buying. Im saying a LOT of amd fans just on this very forum call people who buy nvidia idiots on almost every damn thread.

 

[Daven]

Yeap, laptop dGPUs. Because RT is useless on laptop and fsr 3 is good enough on a small screen that the lack of dlss doesnt bother me that much.

Also im only buying amd cpus for laptops, because unlike their desktop counterparts, amd mobile chips are super crazy efficient on all kinds of tasks.

Then just stop and look at yourself as an example of why Nvidia and I guess Intel too don't always have the best product in all cases.

I don't know how you reached that conclusion. Ive never called anyone an idiot based on the hardware he is buying. Im saying a LOT of amd fans just on this very forum call people who buy nvidia idiots on almost every damn thread.

I will assume that you don't work for Nvidia. In which case, it is not incumbent upon you to police people's posts about their opinions of Nvidia. Nor should you comment on the motivations behind 1000's of internet comments. I have no problem if you focus on individuals like me as I have explained my positions thoroughly. But you don't know jack about the vast majority of the intent behind these comments. Same goes for some random dude you mentioned in that interview. Remember everyone has an agenda and you will never be on the good or right side of any of them.