My MSI Experience (or why I won't buy another MSI product)

[mrw1986]

MB's should not be this perplexing in 2016. It's not like its 1997 where irq's base memory had this black box magic to it. It should just work and since it was confirmed that his gear works on a new board, it sounds like they just kept sending the same board back to him lol. Well that's my first thought. OP, did you mark the board by chance? RMA will often do that, just keep sending the same crap back to you until you give up and stop calling them. Iirc, I got screwed on a Big Bang board a few years back... just remembered it now. I'd forgotten I had sworn off MSI MB's lol.

I tracked the SN, this wasnt my first rodeo

 

[qubit]

mrw, you've pretty much done everything I would and it's particularly strange and unlikely that all the boards had the same failure.

I suggest the following if you're gonna RMA this latest board:

- Mark the board with a felt tip or some other way in a couple of places that you'll recognize. Make the marks small and discreet
- When you get a board back, check for these markings as well as the serial number. Who knows, perhaps the buggers are committing fraud by sticking new serial numbers onto your old board. By this point, even this starts to become possible

- Connect the minimum hardware you have to for a functioning computer with a display (use the IGP) like you have done previously
- Connect a different PSU and make it a decent branded one. Very important, as obscure PSU funnies can cause POST failure
- Just in case there's some unforeseen short, don't mount the mobo in the case, but instead on some insulating surface such as wood or plastic - and be very gentle with it!

If you still see the same thing then I dunno, maybe they really all do have the same fault, as unlikely as it seems. Let me know if you have any ideas to add to the above list.

 

[mrw1986]

mrw, you've pretty much done everything I would and it's particularly strange and unlikely that all the boards had the same failure.

I suggest the following if you're gonna RMA this latest board:

- Mark the board with a felt tip or some other way in a couple of places that you'll recognize. Make the marks small and discreet
- When you get a board back, check for these markings as well as the serial number. Who knows, perhaps the buggers are committing fraud by sticking new serial numbers onto your old board. By this point, even this starts to become possible

- Connect the minimum hardware you have to for a functioning computer with a display (use the IGP) like you have done previously
- Connect a different PSU and make it a decent branded one. Very important, as obscure PSU funnies can cause POST failure
- Just in case there's some unforeseen short, don't mount the mobo in the case, but instead on some insulating surface such as wood or plastic - and be very gentle with it!

If you still see the same thing then I dunno, maybe they really all do have the same fault, as unlikely as it seems. Let me know if you have any ideas to add to the above list.

Definitely good advice. This is exactly what I've been doing (aside from marking the board). All my PSUs are rated at least 9/10 on Jonny Guru and are from reputable brands such as Corsair, NZXT, etc.

Everything is always tested on a test bench to avoid any chance of shorting, as well.

 

[qubit]

You really do have it covered.

Yeah, so try the marking thing, otherwise I'm out of ideas other than they've got a whole load of crap boards with the same fault and the RMA department are trying to ruin MSI's reputation by just giving them out as "repairs".

Did googling for the fault turn up recurring failures with this model, especially with these symptoms?

 

[mrw1986]

You really do have it covered.

Yeah, so try the marking thing, otherwise I'm out of ideas other than they've got a whole load of crap boards with the same fault and the RMA department are trying to ruin MSI's reputation by just giving them out as "repairs".

Did googling for the fault turn up recurring failures with this model, especially with these symptoms?

It actually did, on their official forums and a few other tech forums.

 

[thesmokingman]

Yea, you need to mark the actual board. They can replace serial numbers.

 

[EarthDog]

Really? You think they swap S/N??? You think its actually a big enough concern to mark your board? Without a doubt I see a need for checking the s/N, but not marking the board up...

I really need to invest in stocks for tinfoil. lol

 

[Jetster]

What if they just repair the board

 

[hapkiman]

Hey, I hear you bro. An experience like that would sour anyone's opinion of a company. I had a similar experience with a Gigabyte graphics card, and haven't bought any of their products since (3 RMAs in a row of the same card). I will tell you this - I've got quite a few builds under my belt and my go to brand for boards is either ASUS or MSI. My current board is an MSI Z170A Gaming M7, and it has hands down been the best and most trouble free mobo I've ever had. I can't remember exactly how many MSI products I've had or bought over the years (a bunch), but I can only remember one MSI RMA I did on a Z97M board for a friend's build. I was an easy peasy RMA, and the replacement worked fine. I also remember an ASUS RMA for a card and it went pretty much trouble free as well. EVGA is probably #1 in customer service from my experience (they do cross shipping and you get the RMA in a few days), but I didn't think MSI was that bad. Seems really strange that you were sent three boards in a row that were bad (makes me suspect something: RAM, etc... was incompatible). On my 3 Gigabyte RMAs, each one had a new and different issue (#1 was dead, #2 had artifacts, and #3 was only a cosmetic issue, the card's shroud was cracked, but it worked fine).

If you are happy now with your current board I'd stay with it, but I'd go ahead and RMA the MSI board and then test it, and sell it either on eBay or Craigslist, or you might even check a brick and mortar computer store if you have one in your area and see if they buy used components. Yeah, you'll take a loss and prob have a dislike for MSI products, but at least it's better than getting nothing for it.

At least the rig is working now.

 

[mrw1986]

Hey, I hear you bro. An experience like that would sour anyone's opinion of a company. I had a similar experience with a Gigabyte graphics card, and haven't bought any of their products since (3 RMAs in a row of the same card). I will tell you this - I've got quite a few builds under my belt and my go to brand for boards is either ASUS or MSI. My current board is an MSI Z170A Gaming M7, and it has hands down been the best and most trouble free mobo I've ever had. I can't remember exactly how many MSI products I've had or bought over the years (a bunch), but I can only remember one MSI RMA I did on a Z97M board for a friend's build. I was an easy peasy RMA, and the replacement worked fine. I also remember an ASUS RMA for a card and it went pretty much trouble free as well. EVGA is probably #1 in customer service from my experience (they do cross shipping and you get the RMA in a few days), but I didn't think MSI was that bad.

If you are happy now with your current board I'd stay with it, but I'd go ahead and RMA the MSI board and then test it, and sell it either on eBay or Craigslist, or you might even check a brick and mortar computer store if you have one in your area and see if they buy used components. Yeah, you'll take a loss and prob have a dislike for MSI products, but at least it's better than getting nothing for it.

At least the rig is working now.

Yeah, my only recourse may be an RMA and selling the board...which is a shame.

 

[BiggieShady]

What if they just repair the board

Well, they always send refurbished boards AFAIK so the original repaired board will go to someone else

 

[Aquinus]

Well, they always send refurbished boards AFAIK so the original repaired board will go to someone else

The re-certified drives I get from Western Digital to replace failed ones are almost always rock solid. More rock solid than the ones I buy. Refurbished does mean it has had to go through usually more rigorous QA because it used to have a problem they want to make sure it has been resolved (because RMAs cost companies money and time too.)

So, @mrw1986. When you tested your current machine, was it always in your tower and was it also in your tower when you tested the other motherboard? Did you ever try to boot the bad board ouside of the chassis to make sure what you were encountering wasn't something like a short?

 

[mrw1986]

The re-certified drives I get from Western Digital to replace failed ones are almost always rock solid. More rock solid than the ones I buy. Refurbished does mean it has had to go through usually more rigorous QA because it used to have a problem they want to make sure it has been resolved (because RMAs cost companies money and time too.)

So, @mrw1986. When you tested your current machine, was it always in your tower and was it also in your tower when you tested the other motherboard? Did you ever try to boot the bad board ouside of the chassis to make sure what you were encountering wasn't something like a short?

It was always tested on a test bench in a bare bones environment. I've been doing this 20 years, so it's not my first rodeo

To add to that, all boards were tested in a 100% identical environment.

 

[Athlon2K15]

I had tons of similar issues with my MSI X99 Gaming 9 ACK, I ended up throwing it in the trash and getting an Asus.

 

[qubit]

(because RMAs cost companies money and time too.)

Yes indeed, so it does make me wonder why companies play games like the OP is seeing. Makes no sense at all. I suspect internal politics and cutbacks in the company may have something to do with it.

 

[Aquinus]

Yes indeed, so it does make me wonder why companies play games like the OP is seeing. Makes no sense at all. I suspect internal politics and cutbacks in the company may have something to do with it.

You say this like they are playing a game, it costs them money to pay for shipping back to their facility and to try and repair or replace the board. They is absolutely no reason to just send the old board back unless they were unable to reproduce the problem. I have serious reservations about the same problem happening to several replacement boards. Same thing happened to my dishwasher and it ended up being a completely different part because the part that was going bad (a thermistor,) was still registering a valid voltage range for the sensor so it wasn't throwing a code. Problem was that it was detecting 200 degrees Fahrenheit at room temperature but, 200 degrees isn't an unrealistic temperature for a washing machine with the heating element turned on.

So, while it may look, feel, and taste like the motherboard. Just remember that it might be something completely non-obvious that's connected to the motherboard. I just have a hard time believing the same exact problem was had on several different replacements and that it's probably more likely that it's the combination of hardware than an individual device like the motherboard.

It's too bad that it doesn't look like that motherboard has a 7-segment display to output BIOS codes. That's the first thing I check on both my tower or gateway server when it doesn't POST.

 

[mrw1986]

You say this like they are playing a game, it costs them money to pay for shipping back to their facility and to try and repair or replace the board. They is absolutely no reason to just send the old board back unless they were unable to reproduce the problem. I have serious reservations about the same problem happening to several replacement boards. Same thing happened to my dishwasher and it ended up being a completely different part because the part that was going bad (a thermistor,) was still registering a valid voltage range for the sensor so it wasn't throwing a code. Problem was that it was detecting 200 degrees Fahrenheit at room temperature but, 200 degrees isn't an unrealistic temperature for a washing machine with the heating element turned on.

So, while it may look, feel, and taste like the motherboard. Just remember that it might be something completely non-obvious that's connected to the motherboard. I just have a hard time believing the same exact problem was had on several different replacements and that it's probably more likely that it's the combination of hardware than an individual device like the motherboard.

It's too bad that it doesn't look like that motherboard has a 7-segment display to output BIOS codes. That's the first thing I check on both my tower or gateway server when it doesn't POST.

The difference here is the sheer amount of testing I put everything through. There is no reason my components shouldn't have worked.

When I called MSI they informed me if the diag LED didnt light up it meant the board was defective. All the boards exhibited that symptom.

Every avenue was explored and considering this has happened to others with the same board or other MSI X99 boards it doesn't seem that far-fetched.

 

[Aquinus]

The difference here is the sheer amount of testing I put everything through. There is no reason my components shouldn't have worked.

When I called MSI they informed me if the diag LED didnt light up it meant the board was defective. All the boards exhibited that symptom.

Every avenue was explored and considering this has happened to others with the same board or other MSI X99 boards it doesn't seem that far-fetched.

I understand, that doesn't mean that it's not something you wouldn't expect though. If that's the equivalent of failing to initialize the CPU, that could be a lot of different things and not just the motherboard. You said you used your buddy's X99 board, did you try using his hardware with your board instead of your hardware with his board? As I said, this very well could be the combination of your hardware with this board.

I would be careful to confuse a crappy motherboard with bad RMA service. It sounds like MSI actually did a good job with RMA but, that you just kept having the same problem which may not be limited to a single defective board but rather some incompatibility or something really stupid like a loose contact on a connector.

 

[alucasa]

You should have played lottery instead of doing RMA game.

Would have been far more beneficial.

 

[Aquinus]

You should have played lottery instead of doing RMA game.

Would have been far more beneficial.

If this were my P9X79 Deluxe when I first got it, a 380 USD "lottery" is a freaking expensive gamble. RMA is the cheaper option than just outright buying a new HEDT board.

 

[mrw1986]

I understand, that doesn't mean that it's not something you wouldn't expect though. If that's the equivalent of failing to initialize the CPU, that could be a lot of different things and not just the motherboard. You said you used your buddy's X99 board, did you try using his hardware with your board instead of your hardware with his board? As I said, this very well could be the combination of your hardware with this board.

I would be careful to confuse a crappy motherboard with bad RMA service. It sounds like MSI actually did a good job with RMA but, that you just kept having the same problem which may not be limited to a single defective board but rather some incompatibility or something really stupid like a loose contact on a connector.

I wrote in an earlier post that we used his hardware in my replacement boards, all with the same results.

Additionally, there is no logic in the board working for 8 months then suddenly not working and the problem being my components.

I also tested another set of components from a different friend with the same results (it helps to work in the tech industry with loads of friends who have high end setups).

 

[mrw1986]

Essentially - the problem stems from the boards. There is a greater chance the boards were bad (this wouldn't be the first time with MSI) than so many tested and working components being bad or incompatible.

 

[Aquinus]

I wrote in an earlier post that we used his hardware in my replacement boards, all with the same results.

Additionally, there is no logic in the board working for 8 months then suddenly not working and the problem being my components.

I also tested another set of components from a different friend with the same results (it helps to work in the tech industry with loads of friends who have high end setups).

I think saying that we don't know what's going on would be a more accurate statement than that you got several defective boards with the same issue because you really don't know why it's not working because there aren't enough details like a board outputting BIOS codes would. All I'm saying is that lack of a better explanation doesn't make your explanation correct. All we know is that your hardware with this board worked then stopped working. Your failure to try your board with hardware other than your own is a pretty big hole when trying to determine if it's a compatibility or hardware issue with the combination of hardware being used.

All you've determined is that your motherboard doesn't work with your hardware anymore. Nothing more.

 

[mrw1986]

Just Google 'MSI RMA review' if you need further proof.

 

[EarthDog]

I don't think they were playing games either. They sent a replacement board each time to the user... not trying to repair the same board. What more could they have done (outside of refunding his money)? Maybe some low level employee pulled off the top be repaired pile three times?

Just for the record, you can Google any issue with any board or company and get hits.