• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Mobiveil, Crossbar Partnership Aims to Bring ReRAM to SSDs

Raevenlord

News Editor
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
3,755 (1.35/day)
Location
Portugal
System Name The Ryzening
Processor AMD Ryzen 9 5900X
Motherboard MSI X570 MAG TOMAHAWK
Cooling Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO
Memory 32 GB G.Skill Trident Z F4-3733 (4x 8 GB)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 3070 Ti
Storage Boot: Transcend MTE220S 2TB, Kintson A2000 1TB, Seagate Firewolf Pro 14 TB
Display(s) Acer Nitro VG270UP (1440p 144 Hz IPS)
Case Lian Li O11DX Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) iFi Audio Zen DAC
Power Supply Seasonic Focus+ 750 W
Mouse Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Keyboard Cooler Master Masterkeys Lite L
Software Windows 10 x64
Looking to bridge the gap between current SSDs and resistive memory technologies for the consumers that can actually afford it, Mobiveil and Crossbar have recently announced that they are working in conjunction to bring Crossbar's ReRAM technology to an SSD form-factor. ReRAM is a new type of non-volatile memory (meaning it stores data even when it's not being powered). It's based on a simple three-layer structure of top electrode, switching medium and bottom electrode, where the resistance switching mechanism is based on the formation of a filament in the switching material when a voltage is applied between the two electrodes. Crossbar in particular (this type of resistive memory is also being pursued by other companies, such as HP) says their ReRAM cell is very stable, capable of withstanding temperature swings from -40°C to 125°C, 1M+ write cycles, and managing data retention of 10 years at 85°C. As an upside, it is 3D scalable, and its production can be achieved in standard CMOS manufacturing fabs.

This isn't the next evolution on SSD's - at least, not for the general consumer. ReRAM production and implementation costs will be leagues ahead of what current 3D NAND memory production entails, thus making this a niche product that is there for the customers that absolutely require the fastest throughput possible across a standard interface. In this case, NVMe is the choice - particularly, Mobiveil's NVMe, PCIe and DDR3/4 controllers can easily be adapted to accommodate the Crossbar ReRAM architecture, which is capable of six-million 512B IOPS below 10us latency.





The companies expect this partnership to capture potential customers on Intel and Micron's 3D XPoint technology, which left users wondering where lofty, 1000x improvement performance claims had gone to. However, there's not much the partnership can achieve in that are, through that particular interface: at the type of speeds and IOPS that Crossbar's ReRAM can achieve, "(...) the NVMe interface becomes a large part of the delay", said Jim Handy, principal analyst at Objective Analysis.



The key benefit of using ReRAM in an SSD is that it reduces storage controller complexity - and bottlenecks. It does so by removing large portions of the background memory accesses needed for garbage collection, and also by providing independent, atomic erasure by eliminating the need to build large-block memory arrays in flash designs. The companies know the market will be small: "It's going to be pretty expensive," said Handy, comparing it to the NV-DIMM market. "The current NV-DIMMS are more expensive than DRAM, they're way more expensive than SSDs, but offer blazing speed for people who want to pay for it," Handy said.



Handy said the Crossbar ReRAM-based SSDs will find a niche with customers willing to pay top dollar for persistence and performance, adding that Intel is selling Optane at a loss because it helps the company sell more expensive processors. SSDs with 3D NAND are not in any danger, said Handy. "They will be far more economical than anything made of out Crossbar ReRAM," he said.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Nov 29, 2016
Messages
667 (0.25/day)
System Name Unimatrix
Processor Intel i9-9900K @ 5.0GHz
Motherboard ASRock x390 Taichi Ultimate
Cooling Custom Loop
Memory 32GB GSkill TridentZ RGB DDR4 @ 3400MHz 14-14-14-32
Video Card(s) EVGA 2080 with Heatkiller Water Block
Storage 2x Samsung 960 Pro 512GB M.2 SSD in RAID 0, 1x WD Blue 1TB M.2 SSD
Display(s) Alienware 34" Ultrawide 3440x1440
Case CoolerMaster P500M Mesh
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850W
Keyboard Corsair K75
Benchmark Scores Really Really High
6 million IOPS... not bad.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,714 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
(...) the NVMe interface becomes a large part of the delay

To be frank, I'm surprised to be reading that sentence so soon... Though this will surely cost a small fortune. Still, progress is progress, and it's always good.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
6,728 (1.68/day)
To be frank, I'm surprised to be reading that sentence so soon... Though this will surely cost a small fortune. Still, progress is progress, and it's always good.
Tbf do we really need such high speed storage ~ https://www.techpowerup.com/237384/eight-nvme-drives-raided-on-amd-x399-break-the-28-gb-s-barrier

The RAM densities are constantly going up & we'll be having DDR5 standard within the next two years, I can understand HPC but even data centers may not need such ultra high speed storage with density less than the current (or future) SSD's like ~ https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/09/samsungs_128tb_ssd_bombshell/
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2007
Messages
20,714 (3.41/day)
System Name Pioneer
Processor Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s) XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage 2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s) 55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s) TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches
Software Windows 11 Enterprise (legit), Gentoo Linux x64
Tbf do we really need such high speed storage

No, not at all (at least consumers don't).

But that wasn't really what I was commenting on either.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
6,728 (1.68/day)
No, not at all (at least consumers don't).

But that wasn't really what I was commenting on either.
I wasn't inferring consumers by "we" but even within the industry there's really only a handful of streams which may need performance exceeding 20GBps for a single drive.
I can understand HPC & it's a rapidly expanding market, but I'm unsure if there's really a big demand for ReRAM or 3D xpoint unless they can match the best SSD densities out there.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.31/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
I wasn't inferring consumers by "we" but even within the industry there's really only a handful of streams which may need performance exceeding 20GBps for a single drive.
I can understand HPC & it's a rapidly expanding market, but I'm unsure if there's really a big demand for ReRAM or 3D xpoint unless they can match the best SSD densities out there.
Thats underestimating the stagnation in simulation techniques due to the physical constraints of current platforms , exascale computing isn't just about the processing it will need just as extraordinary data handling to be useful.
This like optane is of limited to marginal use to consumers unless they have stuck to Hdd based drives and for some reason Hate ssds.
 
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
123 (0.05/day)
Location
Italy
I wasn't inferring consumers by "we" but even within the industry there's really only a handful of streams which may need performance exceeding 20GBps for a single drive.
I can understand HPC & it's a rapidly expanding market, but I'm unsure if there's really a big demand for ReRAM or 3D xpoint unless they can match the best SSD densities out there.

pick any database that comes out of your mind.
That database needs an ultrafast access medium.
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
610 (0.26/day)
This like optane is of limited to marginal use to consumers unless they have stuck to Hdd based drives and for some reason Hate ssds.

You do know you can use Optane like any other drive without the special proprietary sauce marketed on slides by Intel? You could run in all Optane system without issue.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.31/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
You do know you can use Optane like any other drive without the special proprietary sauce marketed on slides by Intel? You could run in all Optane system without issue.
My wallet would definitely have issues with that :)
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
No, not at all (at least consumers don't).

But that wasn't really what I was commenting on either.
Gotta disagree. While I'm not in the "general consumer" level of user, I can tell you that even with my SSD Raid setup, my system still spends a decent amount of time waiting on the storage array. The level of performance offered by this technology will be most welcome in not just in the enterprise, workstation, desktop and laptop sectors but also the mobile sector. Extra performance is always welcome.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
6,728 (1.68/day)
pick any database that comes out of your mind.
That database needs an ultrafast access medium.
The question atm is speed vs density, can any of these alternative technologies match the speed of an SSD RAID array (for argument's sake) & also beat them in capacity?
Over time they might replace SSD but in the near to medium term I don't see any of these taking a major chunk of business away from NAND.
 
Top