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Backblaze Releases Hard Drive Stats for 2017, HGST Most Reliable

cdawall

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That doesn't make sense if you are a data storage company, which BackBlaze is. If the drives are actually so much more unreliable than the rest, then the small amount of money you save by going with them is quickly lost by potential downtime and labor costs in replacing drives. The fact is they use Seagate because they are cheap AND the failure rate really isn't significantly worse than any other manufacturer.

Couple years back they said it was because HGST/WD couldn't keep up with supply, Seagate can
 

Keullo-e

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Never Seagate for me. I used WD drives when I used HDDs.
 

cdawall

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Never Seagate for me. I used WD drives when I used HDDs.

Just as a little side bit on this. For drive failures I saw in person. Nothing, I mean nothing beats the WD blue 5400RPM and WD green drives. I really didn't see that many failed Seagate/HGST drives.
 

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Couple years back they said it was because HGST/WD couldn't keep up with supply, Seagate can

Yeah, I remember them saying WD has issues with supply because of the floods. But that is long over, and I don't believe WD is having any supply issues in the past couple years. So the fact that they are only using less than 1000 WD drives is some other issue than supply.
 
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Consumer hard drives are all shit. They will all fail on you no matter the brand/model within margins so low that it doesn't even matter to the average consumer. Why the intense fanboysm ?

Part of the reason why we should move faster towards all solid state drives.
 
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Reminder
Backblaze bought a bunch of enterprise drives a few years back and the enterprise drives had a higher failure rate so any "MUH CONSUMER DRIVES IN A DATACENTER" cry's are invalid
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/enterprise-drive-reliability/

No, it only looks that way because they used a small sample size of Enterprise drives and used their BS method to calculate failure rates. Any time you have a smaller sample size, with low working time, any failures you have make the failure rate look much worse than it is. And that is the problem with their calculation method.
 
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Reminder
Backblaze bought a bunch of enterprise drives a few years back and the enterprise drives had a higher failure rate so any "MUH CONSUMER DRIVES IN A DATACENTER" cry's are invalid
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/enterprise-drive-reliability/

But when you read that you get to this bit: "It turns out that the consumer drive failure rate does go up after three years, but all three of the first three years are pretty good. We have no data on enterprise drives older than two years, so we don’t know if they will also have an increase in failure rate. It could be that the vaunted reliability of enterprise drives kicks in after two years, but because we haven’t seen any of that reliability in the first two years, I’m skeptical."

And it's not just about reliability, but functions like TLER, SAS options etc.
 
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HGST has always been the most reliable drives for me. Currently using about 20 x 8TB He8 and 4 x 10TB He10 drives. Will get some more soon.
 
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I just got a Seagate 5 Tb slim drive for my media server. From the reviews, the failure rate seemed a little higher than the WD ones on sale, but then I didn't know if more Seagate units were sold or not. At the end of the day, any hard drive can go bad, I've had WDD, SG, Toshiba, Maxtor drives die before with seemingly no rhyme nor reason.

True.

Have an old 40GB Maxtor Fireball 3 you know the slim one (the hotplate series) still going in a friends old PC.
Then thing is like 60°C when it is operating and been like that for the past 12 years...
 
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These studies from Blake blaze are always worthless

Indeed, they take a bunch of consumer grade HDDs then subject them to a 24/7 torture test until they die, it's not a real world scenario and the data is essentially worthless as it only tells you what will happen if you buy a bunch of consumer grade HDDs then subject them to a 24/7 torture test until they die lol.
 

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Indeed, they take a bunch of consumer grade HDDs then subject them to a 24/7 torture test until they die, it's not a real world scenario and the data is essentially worthless as it only tells you what will happen if you buy a bunch of consumer grade HDDs then subject them to a 24/7 torture test until they die lol.

It does show over and over again that WD can't hack it. How many years in a row have they had to notate that their drives had a 100% failure rate and were not included? :roll:
 

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Just as a little side bit on this. For drive failures I saw in person. Nothing, I mean nothing beats the WD blue 5400RPM and WD green drives. I really didn't see that many failed Seagate/HGST drives.
Still running a WD Green 500GB SATA-II with 45127 hours.
 

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Still running a WD Green 500GB SATA-II with 45127 hours.

And statistically, most people will have drives that last a long time. Remember, when Google released their hard drive study, it showed that even after 5 years of constant use their drive failure rate was not above 10% for any age of drive. That means that 90% of the drives didn't fail after 5 years. So you are way more likely to find a person that say "I have XYZ from years ago that still runs fine." The real fact is that while some people will have you believe that drives have crazy high failure rates, and they all fail in a year or so, but that just isn't true. You're far more likely to have a hard drive that lasts a long time than one that fails before you replace the computer it is in.
 

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And more likely people will report failed drives but not the working ones.
 

cdawall

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And statistically, most people will have drives that last a long time. Remember, when Google released their hard drive study, it showed that even after 5 years of constant use their drive failure rate was not above 10% for any age of drive. That means that 90% of the drives didn't fail after 5 years. So you are way more likely to find a person that say "I have XYZ from years ago that still runs fine." The real fact is that while some people will have you believe that drives have crazy high failure rates, and they all fail in a year or so, but that just isn't true. You're far more likely to have a hard drive that lasts a long time than one that fails before you replace the computer it is in.

WD and Seagate the two biggest hard drive manufacturers maintain the industry best (entire tech industry) RMA cost to profit numbers. It is in the low 1% range. So like you said most drives aren't failing period.
 
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Oh Geez... backblaze again... any discussion of backblaze in relation to consumer drives is simply irrelevant. When a "source" takes consumer dives and puts them in a service contrary to manufacturers recommendation the data is irrelevant. When a server farm is a series of PC cases on flimsy shelving with the drives held in place by rubberbands the data is irrelevant. When you place consumer drives, which features such as "head parking" and the manufacturer advises not to use any drives with this feature in a server environment, the data is irrelevant. How many people would bother to read an article "here's the latest scoop on reliability of devices when installed in direct conflict with manufacturer's specifications?

Many consumer drives include a feature called head parking. What this means is that when the HD is not in use, the head is moved "off platter" and "parked". The feature serves well in a consumer an office environments in instances for exqample, a colleague bumps ya desk when carrying a box of copy paper, or plops it on your desk while loading the machine ... when ya dog, napping under ya desk jumps up when the doorbell rings. When the heads are parked, no damage will occur from the vibration. Consumer HDs are rated for between 250k and 500k parking cycles. When the HD is idle or with writes being in RAM or to the HD cache, the head will move to the parked position. A typical consumer drive might see as much as 25 - 50,000 parking cycles per year....maybe as much as 100k for an enthusiast box... in which case you hopefully didn't cheap out in your HD selection.

Now if ya take that same exact physical drive and use it in a server environment, it will have a different firmware and it will not have the head parking "feature". This is because server drives are almost get many times more data access requests. They can therefore use up those rated parking cycles in a matter of months. Because of economies of scale, that same drive might be sold as a consumer device for $70 ... That same drive as a server drive is much more expensive. What backblaze does, with no worries about data protection given redundancies, they buy consumer drives instead of server drives because they are cheaper. Because they are replaced so often, they were secured in place only by rubberbands, .. tho hopefully they moved away from this silliness by now Backblaze sells their service based upon price so proper server room design is just something that isn't there. Instead of a building designed with thick concrete floors and all racks firmly secured in place to prevent vibration, Backblaze does none of these things.

So what happens is ... the very feature which extends the life of a consumer drive is what's actually killing these drives when inappropriately placed in a server environment. Alternately, we do have available actual published RMA data readily available telling us what % of consumer drives are actually being RMA'd. The data is collected and published every 6 months and they report drives that failed during 6 and 12 months of operation. While this data doesn't tell is what % of drives might fail during their warranty periods, it is statistically relevant as all mechanical drives should follow the same failure / time curve. In addition what value is lifetime data ? By the time ya get it, it's irrelevant as those drives are not on the market anymore. And, it also eliminates DOAs which can result from issues outside the manufacturer's control such as user error and mishandling.

To avoid statistical anomalies, I always look at the data for the last two periods... and ya know what ... there's not a lot of difference between manufacturers ... there are huge differences between models. If ya look at storagereview.com's historical database, you will see that Seagate has the honor of delivering the most reliable and worst reliable drives. Anyway here's the combined data for last 2 reporting periods 12 months):

  • HGST 0.975%
  • Seagate 0.825 %
  • Toshiba 0.93%
  • Western 1.15%
Not exactly a Secretariat like win here ... So it's not so much a matter of which brand but which model. Just avoid the duds and your OK. Among the individual winners in the dud (> 2% Failures) category are.
  • 10,00% Seagate Desktop HDD 6 To
  • 6,78% Seagate Enterprise NAS HDD 6 To
  • 5,08% WD Black 3 To
  • 4,70% Toshiba DT01ACA300 3 To
  • 3,48% Seagate Archive HDD 8 To
  • 3,48% Hitachi Travelstar 5K1000 1 To
  • 3,42% Toshiba X300 5 To
  • 3,37% WD Red WD60EFRX 6 To
  • 3,04% WD Black WD3003FZEX
  • 3,06% WD Red Pro WD4001FFSX 4 To
  • 2,95% WD Red 4 To SATA 6Gb/s
  • 2,81% Seagate IronWolf 4 To
  • 2,67% WD Green WD60EZRX
  • 2,49% WD Purple Videosurveillance 4 To
  • 2,39% Toshiba DT01ACA200
  • 2,89% Toshiba DT01ACA300
  • 2,37% WD Purple WD40PURX
  • 2,29% Seagate Enterprise NAS HDD ST3000VN0001
  • 2,23% WD Red Pro WD3001FFSX
  • 2,18% WD Green WD30EZRX
  • 2,02% WD Red WD40EFRX
If ya counting, that's 5 for Seagate, 10 for WD, 3 for Toshiba and just 1 for Hitachi

WD has about 40% market share and it produced 10 duds or 2.5 duds per 10% market share
SG has about 37% market share and it produced 5 duds or 1.3 dud per 10% market share
TS has about 23% market share and it produced 3 duds or 1.3 duds per 10% market share

Does that have any significance ? ... well, if ya avoid the duds, then no. The fact is, if ya avoid the duds, your chances are just about 1 in a 100 that you will experience a drive failure between 6 and 12 months. Over the last 8 reporting periods (4 years), manufacturers of consumer drives have broken the 1.00% failure rate ceiling only 17 out of 32 instances:

Seagate = 0 (0.60 - 0.95%
HGST = 5 (0.60 - 1.13%
Toshiba = 6 (0.80 - 1.54%
WD = 6 (0.90 - 1.26%

Now lets not look at this as a big win for Seagate, the range of numbers over those 8 periods are indicated in parenthesis. So, yet again, with regard to consumer drives used in a consumer environment, there is no evidence which justifies any vast measure of superiority of any HD brand over another. While an argument, not a conclusive one mind you, could be made that over the last 4 years, Seagate has fared bettetr overall, from best to worst over the last year we are talking 8 failures a year versus 11 failures per 1,000 and that is not a big enough number so as to lie outside the realm of normal statistical variations.
 
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Another day, another failed Seagate came to me. Got an i7 all in one from the chopping block. Drive doesn't even spin. Took it apart and found the prime suspect.
 
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