New HDMI Xbox 360 Premium Still 90nm

[error_f0rce]

Gamers have been hoping for a while now that Microsoft would introduce a 65nm chip into the new HDMI Xbox 360 Premium's, but a recent dissection of one proves it hasn't happened yet. The recently released photographs show the same 90nm Zephyr Xenon CPU and motherboard layout as in the Xbox 360 Elite, instead of the 65nm Falcon so many had been hopefully anticipating. The Falcon is still expected to emerge sometime this fall.


Pictures courtesy of NeoGAF

View at TechPowerUp Main Site

 

[HookeyStreet]

Still no 65nm Falcon CPU!! M$ are taking the p!ss now

 

[freaksavior]

hooky, you waiting for 65 to buy one/another?

 

[cdawall]

can you oc those 360s?

 

[WarEagleAU]

I would think you could do a little ocing of the 360. However liquid cooling would be the logical choice for maintaining temps.

 

[HookeyStreet]

hooky, you waiting for 65 to buy one/another?

Quite possibly m8, I like the sound of the cooler running CPU (and the performance boost it should give, albeit very slight)

 

[newtekie1]

I'm waiting for the 65nm switch before buying a 360.

 

[error_f0rce]

can you oc those 360s?

LOL, that's the last thing you'd want to do with all the heat warped pcb boards popping off processors
I'm hoping they fixed that problem with this release though...

 

[kwchang007]

can you oc those 360s?

Just a question, why? Low ram on consoles make running traditional operating systems and games very hard to do. Maybe if you wanted to fold with these things. You'd have to find the bios somewhere, wherever they lock it away. Even then when you're using the console for console games, you're not going to get fps above what you can notice with the eye, unless it's an improperly designed game with slow downs. Since consoles are all standardized they all should run at the proper frame rates for game play, not like computers where you have different components which is why computer games have visual options and such.

 

[newtekie1]

Just a question, why? Low ram on consoles make running traditional operating systems and games very hard to do. Maybe if you wanted to fold with these things. You'd have to find the bios somewhere, wherever they lock it away. Even then when you're using the console for console games, you're not going to get fps above what you can notice with the eye, unless it's an improperly designed game with slow downs. Since consoles are all standardized they all should run at the proper frame rates for game play, not like computers where you have different components which is why computer games have visual options and such.

I wouldn't say that, the older Xbox consoles benifits from a processor upgrade doubling the speed from 700MHz to 1.4GHz. The load times in the later games were noticeably decreased by doing this, and framerates in heavily populated games like Dynasty Warriors were also noticeably improved.

 

[HookeyStreet]

Dynasty Warranties

Dont you mean, Dynasty Warriors ??? Or am I missing something

 

[jocksteeluk]

since the xbox use power pc chips do you think it would be possible to run an older version mac osx on it?

 

[kwchang007]

since the xbox use power pc chips do you think it would be possible to run an older version mac osx on it?

Possibly, google it if your interesting. I can guarntee it's not legal and can f up your 360

 

[pbmaster]

Yeah, considering then can detect a different DVD drive, they can probably detect a completely different OS lol

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

Still no 65nm Falcon CPU!! M$ are taking the p!ss now

Why is everyone overlooking the fact that early die shrink equivilants of larger CPU's...... suck?



Lets ignore history, smaller is better! YAYZ!



Yes its cheaper.

That doesn't always mean its doing better.

Everyone forgets you have to re-cast the die, and redo bits of it because of the shrink. Its not like you can pop open autocad, and go to edit->Process size->65nm. LOL

We have a mature 90nm process, and an infant 65nm process still.

 

[error_f0rce]

We have a mature 90nm process, and an infant 65nm process still.

That's true, however, unless they want to get left in the dust, they will need to start development with a newer more powerful processor eventually (not saying it has to be a 65nm Falcon, but something). PS3 is experiencing something like this with the "infant" (or maybe "toddler" now?) cell chip. But sacrifices must be made for the sake of progress, correct? If they want to start dominating the gaming market, they'll have to adopt a better processor, and it will probably end up being a 65nm IMO. .... what if they went quad-core?! ............. nah, too pricy right now :shadedshu

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

That's true, however, unless they want to get left in the dust, they will need to start development with a newer more powerful processor eventually (not saying it has to be a 65nm Falcon, but something). PS3 is experiencing something like this with the "infant" (or maybe "toddler" now?) cell chip. But sacrifices must be made for the sake of progress, correct? If they want to start dominating the gaming market, they'll have to adopt a better processor, and it will probably end up being a 65nm IMO. .... what if they went quad-core?! ............. nah, too pricy right now

No you aren't seeing the point of the die shrink...

The Cell was designed for the process size its being made for.

Designing a CPU for an advanced process size is one thing, but shrinking and already existing, and working die, is more involved than just hitting the shrink button in photoshop.

It'll be cheaper(once it works), but its likely the early yield numbers from wafers are worse than the 90nm dies.

Not only must they maintain a very high clockspeed, but they have to remain fully functional on all of the cores.

How many 3Ghz 65nm CPU's did AMD toss out?

 

[newtekie1]

Dont you mean, Dynasty Warriors ??? Or am I missing something

Yeah, fixed it, thanks. That is what happens when you try to hold a conversation with someone while typing a message.

 

[error_f0rce]

No you aren't seeing the point of the die shrink...

I think I understand where you're coming from... people want to shrink the die for the sake of shrinking the die... circular reasoning, correct?
Yes, I agree, this is foolish.

However, I think at this point MS should be looking for any way to reduce the heat output that has been frying 1 in 3 Xbox 360's, even if that includes a 65nm or 45nm chip, that could have other potential problems. Just from a business and consumer PR stand point.... just my opinion

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

However, I think at this point MS should be looking for any way to reduce the heat output that has been frying 1 in 3 Xbox 360's, even if that includes a 65nm or 45nm chip, that could have other potential problems.

I believe it costs around $10k or more in materials just to recast a CPU die.

Changes things a bit now, doesn't it?

 

[error_f0rce]

I believe it costs around $10k or more in materials just to recast a CPU die.

Changes things a bit now, doesn't it?

Expensive..... but when compared to the $1 billion they had to spend to fix the problem?

 

[okdoke]

XBox 360 El HDMI HDCP MP3 Audio LOCKOUT

I tried an Elite plugged to a Viewsonic 3751w HDMI with HDMI in from the El. I have an older dvd of a two hour MP3 streamed radio broadcast which has no copyright markings. The first time through all was ok. Later the audio could not be heard but all indicators were on as if the disk was being read but the audio was turned off. I played the disk on a 360 no problem. When I returned the El I asked the techies to test it with my disk. They refused and gave me my money back. The El did not produce any noticable quality increase over the 360. The HDCP issue is not looking good. What are the Displayport schedules? Any testing?

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

Expensive..... but when compared to the $1 billion they had to spend to fix the problem?

Thats going to be paid regardless.

That $10k is a development cost.

the $1b is unavoidable no matter what they do at this point. Shipping 65nm units is going to only add to that bill.

With AMD only begining to introduce 65nm stuff, I doubt they're just having a "happy time" with 65nm production.

 

[error_f0rce]

Does anyone know what steps have been taken to eliminate the heat problem in the newer models?

 

[newtekie1]

Thats going to be paid regardless.

That $10k is a development cost.

the $1b is unavoidable no matter what they do at this point. Shipping 65nm units is going to only add to that bill.

With AMD only begining to introduce 65nm stuff, I doubt they're just having a "happy time" with 65nm production.

But continuing to ship 90nm parts is only adding to that $1 Billion because more problem units are going out the door, and will quickly surpass the $10K mark.

They are going to move to 65nm eventually anyway, we already know that, so the $10k is going to happen regardless too, so you might as well get it over with early and stop sending out problem units that are just going to come back to bite you in the ass.