• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Intel Disables DirectX 12 API Loading on Haswell Processors

Joined
Aug 12, 2020
Messages
1,116 (0.84/day)
Let's hope there are no such vulnerabilities in ADL, that would mean some disabling too, and would eat away at performance gains of 12 series...
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
Let's hope there are no such vulnerabilities in ADL, that would mean some disabling too, and would eat away at performance gains of 12 series...
It's very doubtful. Haswell was of a time before the all the speculation & side channel type vulnerabilities. Alderlake has been engineered to remove that kind of attack as a possibility.
 
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
91 (0.10/day)
In my personal opinion this comes very handy to Intel as now all pc based on these processors can't run Windows 11.
AFAIK DX12 is a prerequisite to win11...
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
In my personal opinion this comes very handy to Intel as now all pc based on these processors can't run Windows 11.
AFAIK DX12 is a prerequisite to win11...
TPM & SecureBoot can be bypassed and DX12 is only being disabled on the Haswell IGP. This has no effect on dedicated GPU's from NVidia & AMD running on Haswell CPU's.

So let's not over-reach or over-react people.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Messages
177 (0.05/day)
As an Emulation enthusiast, I can tell you that no emulators need DX12. There are a few that can use it, but such is just fluff.
You seem pretty clueless for an "enthusiast", but then I know you're just running damage control. I'd enjoy seeing you try to weasel word an explanation for how Xenia doesn't need DX12, given it's the only maintained backend it has.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

freeagent

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
7,421 (3.67/day)
Location
Winnipeg, Canada
System Name Altered Beast
Processor AMD R9 5900X/5800X3D
Motherboard Asus Crosshair VIII Dark Hero
Cooling Thermalright Phantom Spirit 120 EVO, 1x T30
Memory 2x8 G.Skill Trident Z Royal 3200C14, 2x8GB G.Skill Trident Z Black and White 3200 C14
Video Card(s) Zotac 4070 Ti Trinity OC
Storage WD SN850X 2TB, SN850 1TB, SN770 1TB - Asus Hyper M.2, 2x SN770 1TB
Display(s) LG 50UP7100
Case Fractal Torrent Compact RGB
Audio Device(s) JBL 2.1 Deep Bass
Power Supply EVGA SuperNova 750w G+, Monster HDP1800
Mouse Logitech G502 Hero
Keyboard Logitech G213
VR HMD Oculus 3
Software Yes
Benchmark Scores Yes
I upgraded from an x5690 to a 3770K in 2017. Literally a few months after that they started rolling out spectre/meltdown patches as well as updating microcode a few times. I watched the GFlops melt away. Hopefully we don’t have to go through that again.


You seem pretty clueless for an "enthusiast", but then I know you're just a fanboy running damage control. I'd enjoy seeing you try to weasel word an explanation for how Xenia doesn't need DX12, given it's the only maintained backend it has.
That’s a little harsh don’t you think? Be nice.
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
2,082 (0.43/day)
Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure this is consequential for many. However, removing a 'marketed feature' rather than 'fixing' it, just because it is an old (but not EOL, mind you) product may invite legal action. They're probably counting on the fact there are near 0 'damages' from retroactively removing these products' DX12 capability.

But they are suggesting to downgrade drivers. Dont get it why they simply dont fix it.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
I'd enjoy seeing you try to weasel word an explanation for how Xenia doesn't need DX12, given it's the only maintained backend it has.
Read, LEARN.

Minimum:​


  • OS: Windows 7+ x64 (Linux/macOS not nativelysupported)
    • Windows <10 support is limited. Don't expect anything to work.
    • Runs on Linux with Wine using Vulkan.
  • CPU: 64-bit x86 processor with AVX(2) support
    • You can check with CPU-Z
  • GPU: Direct3D 12-compatible or Vulkan-compatible GPU from this list
    • You can check with GPU-Z
    • Direct3D 12 will only work on Windows 10 due to D3D12on7 and vkd3d not being supported.
    • GPUs without ROV (rasterizer-ordered view) / fragment shader interlocksupport will perform worse and possibly have more graphical issues. Integrated GPUs will also generally provide frame rates too low for comfortable playing.
      • AMD GPUs also fall under this due to Xenia triggering driver bugs causing crashes.
  • RAM: 4GB
  • 2017/2019 x64 Visual C++ Redistributable
You were saying what now?
 

Ahhzz

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
8,708 (1.48/day)
System Name OrangeHaze / Silence
Processor i7-13700KF / i5-10400 /
Motherboard ROG STRIX Z690-E / MSI Z490 A-Pro Motherboard
Cooling Corsair H75 / TT ToughAir 510
Memory 64Gb GSkill Trident Z5 / 32GB Team Dark Za 3600
Video Card(s) Palit GeForce RTX 2070 / Sapphire R9 290 Vapor-X 4Gb
Storage Hynix Plat P41 2Tb\Samsung MZVL21 1Tb / Samsung 980 Pro 1Tb
Display(s) 22" Dell Wide/24" Asus
Case Lian Li PC-101 ATX custom mod / Antec Lanboy Air Black & Blue
Audio Device(s) SB Audigy 7.1
Power Supply Corsair Enthusiast TX750
Mouse Logitech G502 Lightspeed Wireless / Logitech G502 Proteus Spectrum
Keyboard K68 RGB — CHERRY® MX Red
Software Win10 Pro \ RIP:Win 7 Ult 64 bit
Read, LEARN.
and post with deliberation, intelligence, and respect. Or you won't. This is directed to all.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,470 (0.55/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
I think most individuals with these probably have dedicated graphics so it's a moot point for them.

For large corps that probably have 1000's of machines with these running the IGP, then I don't know.
 
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,470 (0.55/day)
Location
Northern Ontario Canada
Processor Ryzen 5700x
Motherboard Gigabyte X570S Aero G R1.1 BiosF5g
Cooling Noctua NH-C12P SE14 w/ NF-A15 HS-PWM Fan 1500rpm
Memory Micron DDR4-3200 2x32GB D.S. D.R. (CT2K32G4DFD832A)
Video Card(s) AMD RX 6800 - Asus Tuf
Storage Kingston KC3000 1TB & 2TB & 4TB Corsair LPX
Display(s) LG 27UL550-W (27" 4k)
Case Be Quiet Pure Base 600 (no window)
Audio Device(s) Realtek ALC1220-VB
Power Supply SuperFlower Leadex V Gold Pro 850W ATX Ver2.52
Mouse Mionix Naos Pro
Keyboard Corsair Strafe with browns
Software W10 22H2 Pro x64
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
991 (0.19/day)
Processor Intel Core i5 8400
Motherboard Gigabyte Z370N-Wifi
Cooling Silverstone AR05
Memory Micron Crucial 16GB DDR4-2400
Video Card(s) Gigabyte GTX1080 G1 Gaming 8G
Storage Micron Crucial MX300 275GB
Display(s) Dell U2415
Case Silverstone RVZ02B
Power Supply Silverstone SSR-SX550
Keyboard Ducky One Red Switch
Software Windows 10 Pro 1909
Correct me if I'm wrong, looks like haswell gpu doesn't support vulkan on windows. No idea how many people this will actually affect though
Intel Graphics Technology - Wikipedia
1636208471644.png
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
Correct me if I'm wrong, looks like haswell gpu doesn't support vulkan on windows. No idea how many people this will actually affect though
Intel Graphics Technology - Wikipedia
View attachment 223982
Good find! Didn't know that. Still, the point was that the loss of DX12 on Haswell isn't really a problem as anyone wanting to run DX12 enabled programs will be using a dedicated GPU and not the Haswell IGP as performance from that IGP is lack-luster at best. And the above comments about emulation are a perfect example, Xenia is not an emulator that would run well(if at all) on Haswell IGP. No one is going to do it, so the comment from Aretak was not based on merit or factual information.
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2012
Messages
3,475 (0.85/day)
System Name Skunkworks
Processor 5800x3d
Motherboard x570 unify
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A
Memory 32GB 3600 mhz
Video Card(s) asrock 6800xt challenger D
Storage Sabarent rocket 4.0 2TB, MX 500 2TB
Display(s) Asus 1440p144 27"
Case Old arse cooler master 932
Power Supply Corsair 1200w platinum
Mouse *squeak*
Keyboard Some old office thing
Software openSUSE tumbleweed/Mint 21.2
You seem pretty clueless for an "enthusiast", but then I know you're just a fanboy running damage control. I'd enjoy seeing you try to weasel word an explanation for how Xenia doesn't need DX12, given it's the only maintained backend it has.
Can you please show people using haswel''s integrated GPU to run emulated xbox 360 games, of which the intel chip was uanble to play the native ports at anything approaching playable settings?

zero emulators that are actually PLAYABLE on the haswell GPU need DX12, and anything else will need more GPU power then haswell provides. Even the GT 1030 is a huge jump upwards. Most videos on youtube of Xenia show the use of a RTX 2060, and it is not always able to maintain even 30 FPS.
 
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
1,866 (1.03/day)
Location
Olympia, WA
System Name Sleepy Painter
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard Asus TuF Gaming X570-PLUS/WIFI
Cooling FSP Windale 6 - Passive
Memory 2x16GB F4-3600C16-16GVKC @ 16-19-21-36-58-1T
Video Card(s) MSI RX580 8GB
Storage 2x Samsung PM963 960GB nVME RAID0, Crucial BX500 1TB SATA, WD Blue 3D 2TB SATA
Display(s) Microboard 32" Curved 1080P 144hz VA w/ Freesync
Case NZXT Gamma Classic Black
Audio Device(s) Asus Xonar D1
Power Supply Rosewill 1KW on 240V@60hz
Mouse Logitech MX518 Legend
Keyboard Red Dragon K552
Software Windows 10 Enterprise 2019 LTSC 1809 17763.1757
Yes, it is. How else would you suggest they deal with the problem? Do you really expect Intel to reegineer a CPU series that is many generations old? No, and no one should expect them too. As stated above, the Haswell IGP is incapable of running DX12 titles at playable quality so disabling the API is an entirely valid and acceptable solution to the security problems at play.
Haswell was brought out of EOL during this 'shortage'. Therefore, for business and industry, at least some of these CPUs are still sold and supported some places.

Intel has just set the precedent that they can and will remove and disable Active product features. That is the disturbing part.
I don't expect them to reengineer a product, but I would've expected them to provide microcode updates and workarounds.

What this implies, is Intel can continue to 'play fast and loose' with security, and simply start disabling those exploitable features post-purchase. Imagine a small-med business that has invested tens of thousands of dollars in Xeons or Xe products, and Intel several years later just decides to disable a key feature 'in the name of security', while the product is still Active.
 
D

Deleted member 24505

Guest
Haswell was brought out of EOL during this 'shortage'. Therefore, for business and industry, at least some of these CPUs are still sold and supported some places.

Intel has just set the precedent that they can and will remove and disable Active product features. That is the disturbing part.
I don't expect them to reengineer a product, but I would've expected them to provide microcode updates and workarounds.

What this implies, is Intel can continue to 'play fast and loose' with security, and simply start disabling those exploitable features post-purchase. Imagine a small-med business that has invested tens of thousands of dollars in Xeons or Xe products, and Intel several years later just decides to disable a key feature 'in the name of security', while the product is still Active.

The main point is several years, when i'd be inclined to say whatever.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
8,863 (3.36/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
Yes, it is. How else would you suggest they deal with the problem? Do you really expect Intel to reegineer a CPU series that is many generations old? No, and no one should expect them too. As stated above, the Haswell IGP is incapable of running DX12 titles at playable quality so disabling the API is an entirely valid and acceptable solution to the security problems at play.
A "fix", implies there was something wrong with the product and the issue was now fixed, restoring any functionality that was affected. Disabling a feature can be describes as anything but a fix, if anything the product is now even more broken since it's missing a functionality that it had before.

Of course you can't actually play DX12 titles properly on these iGPUs anyway and no one is going to cry their eyes out for this but it's still pretty ridiculous to call something a "fix" when it clearly isn't.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.31/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
Hopefully they don't regress later models with this thing they just found out about?!
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2013
Messages
25,559 (6.52/day)
Haswell was brought out of EOL during this 'shortage'.
Oh, how so?(I'm calling BS on this because it's total nonsense.)

A "fix", implies there was something wrong with the product and the issue was now fixed, restoring any functionality that was affected. Disabling a feature can be describes as anything but a fix, if anything the product is now even more broken since it's missing a functionality that it had before.

Of course you can't actually play DX12 titles properly on these iGPUs anyway and no one is going to cry their eyes out for this but it's still pretty ridiculous to call something a "fix" when it clearly isn't.
Once again, Intel can NOT be expected to re-engineer a product that is EOL and many generations old. If disabling the software API which is being used as the attack vector is the only viable option, it IS a valid solution.

Just because that solution does not meet the satisfaction of a few people who fail to properly understand the problem does not make it any less a valid solution.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
1,457 (0.37/day)
Location
Australia
Once again, Intel can NOT be expected to re-engineer a product that is EOL and many generations old. If disabling the software API which is being used as the attack vector is the only viable option, it IS a valid solution.

Just because that solution does not meet the satisfaction of a few people who fail to properly understand problem does not make it any less a valid solution.
One of the best comments on here to put the whole issue into perspective.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,413 (8.21/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Intel discovers PC's have greater security if you don't turn them on, suggests disconnecting power supplies
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
8,863 (3.36/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
Oh, how so?(I'm calling BS on this because it's total nonsense.)


Once again, Intel can NOT be expected to re-engineer a product that is EOL and many generations old. If disabling the software API which is being used as the attack vector is the only viable option, it IS a valid solution.

Just because that solution does not meet the satisfaction of a few people who fail to properly understand the problem does not make it any less a valid solution.

Not. A. Fix.

End of story, you can argue all you want.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
9,725 (5.12/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name Nebulon-B Mk. 4
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi
Cooling be quiet! Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance EXPO DDR5-6000
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 7800 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5"
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen
Case Kolink Citadel Mesh black
Power Supply Seasonic Prime GX-750
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 single-core: 1,800, multi-core: 18,000. Superposition 1080p Extreme: 9,900.
After extensive research, I've found that removing your CPU from your motherboard results in a fix against all vulnerabilities. Malicious code cannot run on a CPU that's not present.

Yes, it is. How else would you suggest they deal with the problem? Do you really expect Intel to reegineer a CPU series that is many generations old? No, and no one should expect them too. As stated above, the Haswell IGP is incapable of running DX12 titles at playable quality so disabling the API is an entirely valid and acceptable solution to the security problems at play.
I have to disagree with that one. The term "fix" means making something that's broken work again. You wouldn't fix a leaking toilet by permanently disconnecting it from your water supply, would you?
 
Last edited:
Top