• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Alienware 500 Hz Gaming Monitor Leaks Ahead of CES Reveal

Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
78 (0.02/day)
Honestly, I think it will be interesting to see what esports organizers choose as their standard monitor at LAN since that dictates what the pro players will use. Nvidia was marketing the 360hz 1440p monitors as the new standard for esports. If the 1440p monitors are chosen then these 500hz panels are doa.
 

InfernalAI

New Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2022
Messages
8 (0.01/day)
Any 1440p or 4K LCD panel is gong to beat a 1080p plasma in regards to image quality. I'm not sure what IPS or TN display you are comparing it to but I don't need to see a plasma display to know that more pixels is going to result in higher image quality. On top of that Plasma TVs are required to have a glass front which means glare is going to be hella bad and the max brightness means they couldn't be used in every environment.

Another part of image clarity, response times and refresh rate, Plasmas are at a disadvantage for as well. The way Plasma TVs generate different shades is by quickly turning on and off subpixels. By modulating the rate at which the subpixel is on or off you change the perceived shade. To display a darker shade of blue the plasma would just flicker the blue subpixel at a slower rate. This is where the "600 Hz" figure comes from. It's measuring the number of times a pixel and it's subpixels can be flickered within a given refresh rate. In effect each flicker is a portion of a pixel / subpixel transition. Most Plasmas operate at a refresh rate of 60 Hz and would flicker 10 times each frame, thus you get your marketing "600 Hz". Mind you plasmas displays have a minimum pixel transition time of 5ms as this is how long the phosphor takes to decay. On top of that, the pixel response time profile of plasma TVs is sub-optimal. Many LCD panels tend to push the pixels to the desired values early in the transition, sometimes at the cost of overshoot. This drastically reduces the time pixel transitions take and many displays have settings that let users tune pixel response time (often called overdrive). This faster response time means that high motion games and movies will be more clear.

IPS panels are the go to for color accuracy and OLEDs are a close 2nd (OLED do have the best contrast by far though). You are likely referring to contrast which is where Plasma's are pretty good. That said VA LCD panels typically achieve around the same contrast or better without the drawbacks of Plasma and all the advantages of modern LCDs. Samsungs new Odyssey monitors are a good example of that.

As I pointed out earlier, even reviews from that time were not blow away compared to existing products on the market. Your experience is noted but that doesn't automatically dismiss the conclusions from existing reviews.



OLEDs have similar brightness issues to Plasma although less burn-in issues. That said OLED burn-in is often permanent but modern panels have done a good job of mitigating the chance of that.

OLEDs have vastly superior contrast as they can completely turn off pixels where as plasma pixels still retain some light. They can display a wider range of color, have a higher peak brightness, and have better color accuracy. OLEDs are not as efficient as LCDs but they are more efficient than Plasma TVs.

Not really of importance for end consumers but maybe a reason they shouldn't catch on, Plasma TVs emit a lot of radio frequency interference. Talking up to 1/2 mile away.
What I am referring to as image quality, are the colors and the depth it gives to the image. None of the lcd monitors I have are able to get close to my plasma in that regard. This may be the contrast advantage that the plasma has, and you noted va's, which I don't use because I can not stand image ghosting, and VA's are known to not have as good pixel response times as tn or ips. But the new ips panel I got also doesn't stack up to my plasma in terms of color, the ips glow, backlight bleed is there and noticeable, and creates and uneven image in terms of color and contrast. I'm sorry to say but plasma has a lot of advantages that neither tn, ips, nor va are able to replicate. Oled is the only one that seems it might be able to match it, but as I said I don't have one so I can't say myself at the moment.

As I said the 1080p resolution is the only downside, but that's nothing unique to plasma, because the point there is it will look better than any lcd 1080p. And yes, in many instances like looking out at a beautiful sunset in skyrim, the plasma actually makes that scene more beautiful than on my 1440p tn. The ips gets close in terms of color, but the unevenness, and the lack of deep blacks, just simply makes the image lack in certain ways still. But this is why I have made a point to myself that I won't get any new monitor unless it's an Oled, or maybe mini-led and such like that, though I don't know how well those will do in stacking up to the image I'm looking for. The plasma tv I have isn't perfect but there is something to the picture that I just have not seen in any of the lcd's I have ever had or used.
 

AsRock

TPU addict
Joined
Jun 23, 2007
Messages
19,059 (3.01/day)
Location
UK\USA
Pretty much this.

I've had my 165Hz monitor for a few months now and I fail to see the attraction of the "high refresh rate". It is actually most noticeable when moving the cursor and dragging windows. In game, I've been able to see a difference only in Doom, and even then it wasn't huge. What I mean is, high refresh rate (120 and up) is pleasant and nice to have, but by no means essential to the gaming experience. If anything, it's a bit of a liability: it increases requirements towards the hardware, causes more coil whine, and potentially exposes various driver issues, especially when mismatching different monitors with different refresh rates (I'm looking at you, AMD!); all this for an increase in framerate that I'm barely noticing.

But to the manufacture it's keeping the cycle alive, higher resolutions need faster video card which then higher refresh rates, same thing they do with phones and basically there are too many people who don't realize they are being taking for a ride.

Then at some point will bitch about pollution which lets be honest is to just to make a buck too, and make the price go up. Same kinda shit with the eco crap too.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
8,969 (3.31/day)
System Name Best AMD Computer
Processor AMD 7900X3D
Motherboard Asus X670E E Strix
Cooling In Win SR36
Memory GSKILL DDR5 32GB 5200 30
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse 7900XT (Watercooled)
Storage Corsair MP 700, Seagate 530 2Tb, Adata SX8200 2TBx2, Kingston 2 TBx2, Micron 8 TB, WD AN 1500
Display(s) GIGABYTE FV43U
Case Corsair 7000D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Corsair Void Pro, Logitch Z523 5.1
Power Supply Deepcool 1000M
Mouse Logitech g7 gaming mouse
Keyboard Logitech G510
Software Windows 11 Pro 64 Steam. GOG, Uplay, Origin
Benchmark Scores Firestrike: 46183 Time Spy: 25121
That's maybe something for the 0.01% of competitive gamers that actually can use this..(and of course not those who pretend they are competitive but suck at 144 or 500hz alike).

I'd trade 250-300Hz for a resolution bump to 1440p and OLED/mini-led anytime...after all OLED gaming monitors are coming en masse to CES and they have insane response time.
I'm done using outdated panel with mediocre lightbleed, my long awaited upgrade Q1 2023 is toward oled or mini-led, period.
Don't be surprised to see these at the big for money Video Game tournaments. I can even see in that community the same argument that happened when 120Hz became common enough to challenge and replace 60Hz. I was one of those 60Hz (thanks to my console days) hangons. until I played the Division with my new 120HZ monitor and could not believe that I could use the Machine Gun with a scope to take out enemies. At 60Hz it was a shakefest just using it. That convinced me, but when I see legacy Games running at these frames (PUBG, Sleeping Dogs) it remains to be seen if there is a noticeable difference.

I here you on the panel technology that is available today. It is to the point where I watch my TV service through my Smart TV app. I just can't do 720P after watching Disney Plus.

But to the manufacture it's keeping the cycle alive, higher resolutions need faster video card which then higher refresh rates, same thing they do with phones and basically there are too many people who don't realize they are being taking for a ride.

Then at some point will bitch about pollution which lets be honest is to just to make a buck too, and make the price go up. Same kinda shit with the eco crap too.
EA Play allows you to play Madden on PC. It is locked at 30 FPS. You literally can make a pass on every play and the Game feels like molasses.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
5,536 (0.96/day)
System Name Cyberline
Processor Intel Core i7 2600k -> 12600k
Motherboard Asus P8P67 LE Rev 3.0 -> Gigabyte Z690 Auros Elite DDR4
Cooling Tuniq Tower 120 -> Custom Watercoolingloop
Memory Corsair (4x2) 8gb 1600mhz -> Crucial (8x2) 16gb 3600mhz
Video Card(s) AMD RX480 -> RX7800XT
Storage Samsung 750 Evo 250gb SSD + WD 1tb x 2 + WD 2tb -> 2tb MVMe SSD
Display(s) Philips 32inch LPF5605H (television) -> Dell S3220DGF
Case antec 600 -> Thermaltake Tenor HTCP case
Audio Device(s) Focusrite 2i4 (USB)
Power Supply Seasonic 620watt 80+ Platinum
Mouse Elecom EX-G
Keyboard Rapoo V700
Software Windows 10 Pro 64bit
the question isn't so much what you deem, that's subjective af, but does it really matter at all or is it just pointless, like the mouse DPI mentioned.

again, up to the individual to decide instead of just pre-hating or pre-loving it.

I wonder what kind of graphics card it takes to drive it at 500Hz just on the desktop.

depends on the game/settings.

Same story as with Mouse DPIs

I mean mouse DPI matters as we go up in resolution, old mice can barely be used because they are so slow and artificially upping the speed is not that great, but again if individuals like higher dpi....well thats fine, enjoy the progress in that area, I wont get upset over it.
 
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,005 (2.38/day)
Processor Ryzen 5 5700x
Motherboard B550 Elite
Cooling Thermalright Perless Assassin 120 SE
Memory 32GB Fury Beast DDR4 3200Mhz
Video Card(s) Gigabyte 3060 ti gaming oc pro
Storage Samsung 970 Evo 1TB, WD SN850x 1TB, plus some random HDDs
Display(s) LG 27gp850 1440p 165Hz 27''
Case Lian Li Lancool II performance
Power Supply MSI 750w
Mouse G502
again, up to the individual to decide instead of just pre-hating or pre-loving it.

the individual can decide to jump of a bridge, that's not what matters here, we should discusse if jumping of a bridge is a good idea or not. We are talking about the tech not what any individual wants to do
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
17,865 (2.89/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Black 4TB | WD Blue 6TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) | Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard Yes
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
depends on the game/settings.
No it doesn't, because I'm talking about just generating a 500Hz picture for the desktop. Lower end, previous gen cards may not be able to do it.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Messages
359 (0.08/day)
In game, I've been able to see a difference only in Doom, and even then it wasn't huge.
I agree with Doom (Eternal) being the only game in which I've noticed a difference but the difference, to me, was huge.

Going from 60 Hz to 144 Hz gave me a significant difference in fluidity and responsiveness. Switching back felt like a very noticeable downgrade.

For every other game in my library, going above 60 Hz has been like - the animation is a bit smoother... that's it?

Even with Doom (Eternal), I don't see it benefitting significantly from more than 120 Hz.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
1,329 (0.91/day)
Location
Tel Fyr
System Name Purple Haze | Vacuum Box
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D (-30 CO) | Intel® Xeon® E3-1241 v3
Motherboard MSI B450 Tomahawk Max | Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H
Cooling Dark Rock 4 Pro, P14, P12, T30 case fans | 212 Evo & P12 PWM PST x2, Arctic P14 & P12 case fans
Memory 32GB Ballistix (Micron E 19nm) CL16 @3733MHz | 32GB HyperX Beast 2400MHz (XMP)
Video Card(s) AMD 6900XTXH ASRock OC Formula & Phanteks T30x3 | AMD 5700XT Sapphire Nitro+ & Arctic P12x2
Storage ADATA SX8200 Pro 1TB, Toshiba P300 3TB x2 | Kingston A400 120GB, Fanxiang S500 Pro 256GB
Display(s) Mi 2K Gaming Monitor 27", AOC 24G2U
Case Modded MS Industrial Titan II Pro RGB | Heavily Modded Cooler Master Q500L
Audio Device(s) Audient iD14 MKII, Adam Audio T8Vs, Bloody M550, HiFiMan HE400se, Tascam TM-80, DS4 v2
Power Supply Rosewill Capstone 1000M | Enermax Revolution X't 730W (both with P14 fans)
Mouse Logitech G305, Bloody A91, Amazon basics, Logitech M187
Keyboard Redragon K530, Bloody B930, Epomaker TH80 SE, BTC 9110
Software W10 LTSC 21H2
Why the hostility?
Probably because all of the ignorance, hate and malice manifested. It's a niche market oriented product. You won't see me comment on the $10000 headphones article in the similar fashion, and surely not with an automatic assumption they are stupid and unnecessary. Why? Because I know there are people that will find the money and proper use for those.
I'm not a competitive FPS gamer, but let's just pretend I am. Apex Legends has a fps cap of 300, and I have a GPU power to run the game at that fps in 1080p. I want a monitor that can translate each of those frames without any loss (skipped frames). I want things that may give an edge to my already top of the line performance. Is that makes me a fool, a gimmick sucker? SMH.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,243 (1.07/day)
Processor Ryzen 7800X3D
Motherboard ASRock X670E Taichi
Cooling Noctua NH-D15 Chromax
Memory 32GB DDR5 6000 CL30
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 4090 Trio
Storage Too much
Display(s) Acer Predator XB3 27" 240 Hz
Case Thermaltake Core X9
Audio Device(s) Topping DX5, DCA Aeon II
Power Supply Seasonic Prime Titanium 850w
Mouse G305
Keyboard Wooting HE60
VR HMD Valve Index
Software Win 10
What I am referring to as image quality, are the colors and the depth it gives to the image. None of the lcd monitors I have are able to get close to my plasma in that regard. This may be the contrast advantage that the plasma has, and you noted va's, which I don't use because I can not stand image ghosting, and VA's are known to not have as good pixel response times as tn or ips. But the new ips panel I got also doesn't stack up to my plasma in terms of color, the ips glow, backlight bleed is there and noticeable, and creates and uneven image in terms of color and contrast. I'm sorry to say but plasma has a lot of advantages that neither tn, ips, nor va are able to replicate. Oled is the only one that seems it might be able to match it, but as I said I don't have one so I can't say myself at the moment.

Samsung's high end VA panels do not have black smearing (the ghosting you are referring to) in case you are interested in buying those. Pixel response for VAs was only poor during black transitions but it seems that disadvantage for them is going away given Samsung has cracked it.

You should RMA your unit if uniformity / backlight bleed is bad. That is not normal nor acceptable.

You could also choose to get an IPS panel with a mini-LED backlight. This will vastly exceed the contrast ratio of a Plasma TV. Alternatively you can get a good OLED TV or monitor at a reasonable price nowadays.

You say plasma has many advantages but any LCD panel with a mini-led backlight is going to beat it in all respects.

Heck even comparing my 120 Hz OLED phone to my 240 Hz 1440p acer predator, the latest IPS panels have definitely stepped it up when it comes to contrast and color. The only time the OLED wins is in dark scenes, otherwise the color presentation is better on my IPS monitor.

As I said the 1080p resolution is the only downside, but that's nothing unique to plasma, because the point there is it will look better than any lcd 1080p. And yes, in many instances like looking out at a beautiful sunset in skyrim, the plasma actually makes that scene more beautiful than on my 1440p tn. The ips gets close in terms of color, but the unevenness, and the lack of deep blacks, just simply makes the image lack in certain ways still. But this is why I have made a point to myself that I won't get any new monitor unless it's an Oled, or maybe mini-led and such like that, though I don't know how well those will do in stacking up to the image I'm looking for. The plasma tv I have isn't perfect but there is something to the picture that I just have not seen in any of the lcd's I have ever had or used.

Mini-LED is still LCD based, it just allows local dimming. It'll get the picture you are after, which is higher contrast.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2021
Messages
311 (0.23/day)
System Name Office,Home and Game PC
Processor Intel Core i5 12600k Up to 4.9 GHz
Motherboard Z690 Gaming X Gigabyte DDR4 Version
Cooling Fuma 2 Air Cooler
Memory 32GB DDR4 2x16 3600 MHz Patriot Viper Steel RAM
Video Card(s) NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080 and RTX 3070
Storage 512 GB M2 PCI Ex 3.0 NVMe SX6000 Pro, 1TB NV2 Kingston M2 PCI Ex 4.0 and 4TB WD Blue SATA 3.0 HDD
Display(s) 27 inç 75 Hz LG
Case Cooler Master MB511
Audio Device(s) Creative 2+1
Power Supply 750W 80+ Bronze PSU High Power Element
Mouse Logitech Wireless
Keyboard Microsoft
VR HMD N/A
Software Windows 10-11
To tell the truth, it's a monitor that wouldn't make sense without the RTX 4090. I think 240Hz is fine.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,179 (3.93/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Ugh, such snake oil.

If they'd said "OLED" I'd have been fine with this - a stupid-expensive 500Hz panel for eSports gamers with deep pockets.

But 500Hz is far beyond the capabilities of IPS technology which is already really struggling to get 100% refresh compliance above 144Hz without severe overshoot making the image quality useless.

Yes, 240Hz IPS monitors do exist, but no reviewers that do detailed pixel response testing are recommending them over the good 165-180Hz IPS monitors because the extra refresh rate buys you only additional blur trails and/or insane overshoot ruining the image. Not even the best 180Hz IPS panels are overshoot free, but 180Hz is close enough to the true capability of IPS that it doesn't turn the image into a complete mess - overshoot is within 25% or so, and refresh compliance is above 75%.

If I had to guess, a 500Hz IPS panel will have overshoot exceeding 200% for many transitions and refresh compliance will be under 10%. If you don't understand what that means, it means the 500Hz claim is a total, easily-provable lie; It accepts frames from a GPU at 500Hz but the output results of each frame aren't even remotely close to what the GPU sent it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
11,960 (1.72/day)
System Name Compy 386
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard Asus
Cooling Air for now.....
Memory 64 GB DDR5 6400Mhz
Video Card(s) 7900XTX 310 Merc
Storage Samsung 990 2TB, 2 SP 2TB SSDs, 24TB Enterprise drives
Display(s) 55" Samsung 4K HDR
Audio Device(s) ATI HDMI
Mouse Logitech MX518
Keyboard Razer
Software A lot.
Benchmark Scores Its fast. Enough.
I think we used to have a reaction time thread somewhere around here where some special people were too fast for their lagging (insert hardware here) and only had the same average reaction time due to the hardware
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
1,825 (0.32/day)
Location
Slovenia
System Name Multiple - Win7, Win10, Kubuntu
Processor Intel Core i7 3820 OC@ 4.0 GHz
Motherboard Asus P9X79
Cooling Noctua NH-L12
Memory Corsair Vengeance 32GB 1333MHz
Video Card(s) Sapphire ATI Radeon RX 480 8GB
Storage Samsung SSD: 970 EVO 1TB, 2x870 EVO 250GB,860 Evo 250GB,850 Evo 250GB, WD 4x1TB, 2x2TB, 4x4TB
Display(s) Asus PB328Q 32' 1440p@75hz
Case Cooler Master CM Storm Trooper
Power Supply Corsair HX750, HX550, Galaxy 520W
Mouse Multiple, Razer Mamba Elite, Logitech M500
Keyboard Multiple - Lenovo, HP, Dell, Logitech
I'm back again ... why not please just slightly blur the front page preview of such articles with a spoiler warning enough for me to glance away and others to see their snotty leaks. TPU could be the first and I think other media could follow suit or at least commend. I do not believe it would take that much traffic away. I already did a whole wall of text on this months ago, if not last year or when so I'll skip that on this occasion ofcourse.
Even an automated overlay that de-spoilers after 3-5 seconds with a big enouhg countdown indication and some fancy border effects would be fine, without leak hungry user needing to click anything, those that are aware would look away. I'd still keep visiting any talking about other stuff on TPU even if all the news is spoilers in a day.

Or perhaps just the title, or hybrid the title and preview text but except first 3 characters in the title or similar, or minus the first word in the title.

Alienware 500 kHz Rec.2100 HDR-10K Gaming Monitor Leaks Ahead of CEESS Reveal, to be boundled with Call of Duty 2 Remastered, releasing on Windows XP2
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
8,969 (3.31/day)
System Name Best AMD Computer
Processor AMD 7900X3D
Motherboard Asus X670E E Strix
Cooling In Win SR36
Memory GSKILL DDR5 32GB 5200 30
Video Card(s) Sapphire Pulse 7900XT (Watercooled)
Storage Corsair MP 700, Seagate 530 2Tb, Adata SX8200 2TBx2, Kingston 2 TBx2, Micron 8 TB, WD AN 1500
Display(s) GIGABYTE FV43U
Case Corsair 7000D Airflow
Audio Device(s) Corsair Void Pro, Logitch Z523 5.1
Power Supply Deepcool 1000M
Mouse Logitech g7 gaming mouse
Keyboard Logitech G510
Software Windows 11 Pro 64 Steam. GOG, Uplay, Origin
Benchmark Scores Firestrike: 46183 Time Spy: 25121
Yeah, it doesn't work that way. Most games sync over networks at a rate slower than display refresh rates anyway. But even if some of them are faster, the difference between 1/240th of a second and 1/500th of a second to the human eye is imperceptible. It is mathematically significant, but insignificant to the human eye.


That's a configuration error on your part. Locking vsync without first setting the default refreshrate will result in the problem you described. You must first set your default refresh rate and THEN set vsync. Whether you do it in the Windows display settings or the driver control panel is up to you.
My default rate was already set at 165hz.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
17,865 (2.89/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Black 4TB | WD Blue 6TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) | Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard Yes
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Reading these comments, it surprises me just how controversial something as simple as a very high refresh rate monitor can be.

I say wait for the reviews before passing judgement on it and I hope TPU review it. In particular, those pointing out the artefacts on current high refresh rate monitors and saying it's gonna look like crap on this one due to overshoot, you don't actually know that, since it's quite possible that they've successfully addressed these issues in such an extreme refresh rate monitor. Again, let's wait for reviews before making assumptions about its performance.
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,179 (3.93/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Reading these comments, it surprises me just how controversial something as simple as a very high refresh rate monitor can be.
Because very few monitors can achieve good results at the optimistic refresh rate they claim.

VA and IPS technology has reached a stage where 75Hz "normal" monitors typically finish most or all of their pixel transitions before the next frame arrives in 13.3ms. It is a 75Hz display not just because the signal is fed to it 75 times a second, but because it can draw the whole frame within 1/75 of a second. At even 'just' 144Hz, the next frame arrives after 6.9ms and the problem with both VA and IPS is that many transitions take more than 10ms, meaning that you never actually see all of the extra frame that your expensive GPU just spent your money making. They claim 144Hz but in reality, the pixels themselves are only capable of fully drawing a frame in 1/90th of a second. With aggressive overdrive, maybe some of these 'bad' 144Hz displays can draw 75% of the frame in 1/144th of a second, but the remaining 25% of the frame with either still be changing from the previous frame, or completely overshot the mark and is displaying something utterly unwanted and distracting.

There is a very tangible benefit from moving beyond 60-75Hz non-gaming monitors. I know sensitivity varies from person to person but for me, the point at which individual frames turn into motion is about 50Hz, depending on how fast the content is moving, so I consider 60Hz smooth (and do a lot of gaming at 4K60) but true fluidity - the point at which higher refresh rates stop mattering* to me is at about 105Hz.

*
All of that last paragraph was based on CRT testing and more recently OLED+black-frame-insertion, which is the most CRT-like experience you can get these days, so for me (and I'm reasonably typical, I think) a good, strobing, 100% refresh compliant display at 105Hz is the point of diminishing returns. Yes, I can see some very minor gains from 120Hz to 144Hz, to 165Hz, but on a 240Hz monitor, I can barely perceive any difference at all between 240Hz and 144Hz unless trying to read fast-scrolling labels/text.

The higher refresh rates serve one primary function beyond diminishing returns - and that's a reduction of sample-and-hold blur. My brain can barely process the extra information its given at 240Hz, but if my eye is tracking an object moving across the screen, the reduction of the sample-and-hold "wiggle" is very noticeable at higher refresh rates. The caveat to this is that the monitor HAS to have completed its pixel transitions before the next frame arrives, otherwise all of that extra Hz and FPS is wasted.

Personally, I wish manufacturers would work on implementing better backlight strobing and black frame insertion. I would pick a 100Hz monitor with excellent strobing over the 240Hz monitor I currently have, any day of the week, because 100fps gaming is great, it means I don't need an RTX 4090 to reach 240fps, and (provided the pulses are typical 25% duration) I can track moving objects with the clarity I'd have using a hypothetical 100% refresh-compliant 400Hz display. The BFI on my G75T is mediocre, but I still prefer it at fixed 120Hz to 240Hz VRR without it.

So, 120 or 144Hz gaming is a big upgrade over 60Hz, but beyond that people who want higher refresh rates probably think they want higher refresh rates, but in reality are trying to get smoother motion tracking which would be better achieved with a good strobing/BFI implementation.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
2,305 (1.51/day)
Location
Bulgaria
Just poking fun at all the people arguing the human eye can't see beyond xyz fps :p

Obviously the human eye can see beyond 2 fps... it's the exaggeration that makes it funny
Must invented way to use eyes to gaming without brain usage :)
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,278 (6.02/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
). I want things that may give an edge to my already top of the line performance. Is that makes me a fool, a gimmick sucker? SMH.
Well, you are kind of saying it yourself right here - already top of the line performance. We are solid in the realm of diminishing returns here; at 240hz already. 360-500 is absolutely in the category of idiocy and placebo benefit.

Everything has its limits. Simple, even if the human psyche disagrees. Its wisdom to be able to see the difference. And we are led by marketing if we fail to do so.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
17,865 (2.89/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Black 4TB | WD Blue 6TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) | Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard Yes
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
@Chrispy_ Very selective quoting there. As I suggested, why don't you wait for the reviews instead of making a judgement based on all these assumptions about this new monitor based on much older and slower designs? That's the objective way to look at it.

As far as where the laws of diminishing returns kick in, it'll be somewhat different for everyone. In my case, I can tell the difference between 120Hz and 144Hz, but it's subtle. I can't speak for higher refresh rates because I haven't seen them, but I suspect that I'll be able to see that too.

Finally, there's a killer reason for really high refresh rates: much reduced motion blur. It's inherent in all sample and hold displays, including OLED, partly because of the way human vision works with averaging out the motion between frames.

There's two ways to reduce this: 1) strobing, 2) increasing the framerate. Doing so at 500Hz makes the difference between them very small and hence much reduced blur. There's an article by Microsoft published a few years ago that explains this all in great detail. However, you can see the effect just by switching between 60/100/120/144Hz and noticing how the motion blur drops each time.

@Vayra86 you posted while I was creating this post. Please see my last paragraph for the benefit. It's absolutely not a placebo or idiocy.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,179 (3.93/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
@Chrispy_ Very selective quoting there. As I suggested, why don't you wait for the reviews instead of making an judgement based on all these assumptions about this new monitor based on much older and slower designs? That's the objective way to look at it.
If you believe Alienware has made their own IPS display that is magically somehow 300% better than the panels AUO, LG.Display, CMO et al have been fighting for tiny incremental improvements over for the last two decades, then you truly are a more optimistic man than me.

This is only a guess, but I would put money on it - This will be more of the same shit we've seen from 240, 300, 360Hz IPS. It doesn't work, multiple independent reviews have proved it. IPS itself is the limiting factor, so it's OLED or nothing beyond about 200Hz if you want anything approaching refresh-compliance.

Go and read some RTINGS articles or watch HUB videos on the fastest IPS displays of the last two years. We're at the point where the combination of best panel and best overdrive algorithms can get 80% compliance in about 4.6ms and 100% compliance in around 7ms average. That means that IPS technology is perfect for (1000/7) 144Hz and anything beyond that is a compromise of smear and overshoot.
 
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
22,278 (6.02/day)
Location
The Washing Machine
Processor 7800X3D
Motherboard MSI MAG Mortar b650m wifi
Cooling Thermalright Peerless Assassin
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance 30CL6000
Video Card(s) ASRock RX7900XT Phantom Gaming
Storage Lexar NM790 4TB + Samsung 850 EVO 1TB + Samsung 980 1TB + Crucial BX100 250GB
Display(s) Gigabyte G34QWC (3440x1440)
Case Lian Li A3 mATX White
Audio Device(s) Harman Kardon AVR137 + 2.1
Power Supply EVGA Supernova G2 750W
Mouse Steelseries Aerox 5
Keyboard Lenovo Thinkpad Trackpoint II
Software W11 IoT Enterprise LTSC
Benchmark Scores Over 9000
@Chrispy_ Very selective quoting there. As I suggested, why don't you wait for the reviews instead of making an judgement based on all these assumptions about this new monitor based on much older and slower designs? That's the objective way to look at it.

As far as where the laws of diminishing returns kick in, it'll be somewhat different for everyone. In my case, I can tell the difference between 120Hz and 144Hz, but it's subtle. I can't speak for higher refresh rates because I haven't seen them, but I suspect that I'll be able to see that too.

Finally, there's a killer reason for really high refresh rates: much reduced motion blur. It's inherent in all sample and hold displays, including OLED, partly because of the way human vision works with averaging out the motion between frames.

There's two ways to reduce this: 1) strobing, 2) increasing the framerate. Doing so at 500Hz makes the difference between them very small and hence much reduced blur. There's an article by Microsoft published a few years ago that explains this all in great detail. However, you can see the effect just by switching between 60/100/120/144Hz and noticing how the motion blur drops each time.

@Vayra86 you posted while I was creating this post. Please see my last paragraph for the benefit. It's absolutely not a placebo or idiocy.
Motion blur is generated from two sources. Your brain/processing and sample and hold. There is a benefit, Im not denying that; but diminishing returns are at play. 120-165, sure, we are almost unanimous in seeing that benefit. maybe 240 would still do as well but only if you can maintain >200 FPS all the time, and even then its sacrificing frame time variance (smoothness) for... what exactly? A minute difference in blur? Its not even quantifiable at this point; why is the upper limit more important than stability?

Point is, the sacrifices no longer outweigh the benefits at a certain point. And no, thats not a moving goal either. 120-144 and maybe 165 are more than sufficient to exceed that point. It was in 1999, and it will be in 2030.

This article though isnt even about 240hz. Its about 500. Similar principles apply to pixel density; 4K at very small diagonals are similarly pointless and just a result of commerce, not sense. Their purpose is as Veseleil describes it accurately: something to buy when you already have top of the line performance.

Its money looking for a purpose, and there is a market for it, like there is for everything, no matter how silly.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
8,179 (3.93/day)
System Name Bragging Rights
Processor Atom Z3735F 1.33GHz
Motherboard It has no markings but it's green
Cooling No, it's a 2.2W processor
Memory 2GB DDR3L-1333
Video Card(s) Gen7 Intel HD (4EU @ 311MHz)
Storage 32GB eMMC and 128GB Sandisk Extreme U3
Display(s) 10" IPS 1280x800 60Hz
Case Veddha T2
Audio Device(s) Apparently, yes
Power Supply Samsung 18W 5V fast-charger
Mouse MX Anywhere 2
Keyboard Logitech MX Keys (not Cherry MX at all)
VR HMD Samsung Oddyssey, not that I'd plug it into this though....
Software W10 21H1, barely
Benchmark Scores I once clocked a Celeron-300A to 564MHz on an Abit BE6 and it scored over 9000.
Finally, there's a killer reason for really high refresh rates: much reduced motion blur. It's inherent in all sample and hold displays, including OLED, partly because of the way human vision works with averaging out the motion between frames.

There's two ways to reduce this: 1) strobing, 2) increasing the framerate. Doing so at 500Hz makes the difference between them very small and hence much reduced blur. There's an article by Microsoft published a few years ago that explains this all in great detail. However, you can see the effect just by switching between 60/100/120/144Hz and noticing how the motion blur drops each time.
Did you not read the second half of my post? You're literally telling me what I wrote 20 minutes ago, though I guess you may not have F5'ed and it was an edit to an older post....

This article though isnt even about 240hz. Its about 500.
I think the large amount of criticisms in this thread are about 500Hz being a joke when not even 240Hz displays can really do what they claim. There is only one LCD display made to date (the Odyssey G7) that can actually draw a whole frame in 1/240th of a second, and that's with caveats. The fastest IPS panel is actually a 180Hz panel, because although the Viewsonic X2431 refreshes at 240Hz, it's pixel transitions are slower.
 
Last edited:
Top