Is it safe buying ASUS motherboards again?

[azrael]

There's been a lot of controversy about ASUS and their (beta) BIOS frying several CPUs, after which ASUS tried to wash their hands with a "warranty voided" disclaimer. On top of that apparently quite a bit of faulty motherboards seem to reach the retail channel. From what I've learned ASUS may have seen the error of their ways and done a 180 (more or less). The question still remains: is it safe to buy their products again, especially motherboards.

The reason I'm asking is that ASUS is about the only manufacturer enabling support for ECC memory on their AMD boards (Intel boards require a specific chipset, although no longer also a specific CPU). There's also ASRock, but I can't tell which of their motherboard series is top tier and which isn't, except for the Taichi series. My problem with the Taichi is that it's an EATX motherboard which my case can't fit properly. And of course it's also top tier when it comes to price.

 

[DaemonForce]

If you think any of these are the default "safe" choice, you are wrong.
There has always been a lot of juggling going on with each brand. I simply prefer Asus to tour me into a new platform.
I can't see any reason to prefer them for AM5 given that I've spent more than an hour in total studying the issues with this era of boards and it's not pretty.

I'm predisposed to pick the TUF or Prime because they seem to have the best collection of features at a good price. At ~$150 this A620M looks about ideal:

Whatever is wrong with it will probably be directly related to dual M.2 and sata support. Also I'm not a fan of that chipset location but this seems fine. Also not a fan of closed x1 slots but there's probably lane issues that would prevent their use too.

Biostar is NOT without problems either. When I first wanted to pick up the Biostar X570 flagship, I was turned away as there was NO STOCK. There wasn't even a statement of work that I could pull from Biostar USA or Biostar TW. When I went to one rep that tried to upsell me some Intel junker board and had no idea about their flagship AMD board that was their site splashscreen for the better part of 3 months.

You can't fix stupid and I really wanted to see how well this would perform:

I was probably part of an imaginary percentage that was excited about it too. Look at how this is designed. I'm sure it's not without flaws but I'm willing to bet they're nowhere near as catastrophic as the Gigabyte options save for their premium ITX model. This was before B550 was out. Pain...

 

[GerKNG]

the boards are fine but there are a lot of alternatives that are better and cheaper.

 

[Fokker]

Even the Merlin version?

I can't speak to the AX11000, but I have the AXE16000 and there's no problems with the stock firmware. The interface is better than any Nighthawk interface I've ever touched (granted I haven't spent time with their latest, but I don't expect much changes).

 

[Waldorf]

Why i cant speak for recent hw related "quality", looking at bios and the options,
and that most mb for x570 i worked with, were a bit of a pain vs what even lower tier MSI were doing.
i had a couple of asrocks but compared to entry level msi they werent as good,
and my current MEG runs circles around the similar price Gb i had before,
at least when it comes to "fluctuations" for clocks/voltages when using "auto",
which on the x570S Unify X max is good enough, im not even messing with manual voltages.

 

[ir_cow]

I personally wouldn't buy any A620 MB unless it's paired with APU or 65w CPU. I don't like 100c on the VRM just from gaming lol.

 

[ThrashZone]

the boards are fine but there are a lot of alternatives that are better and cheaper.

Hi,
Indeed the days of paying asus tax are over for me.

 

[Kapone33]

If you are buying Asus and don't want issues make sure you get at least a TUF series board. Strix are the best for features/price. I would not get a Prime board if money is an issue get an MSI board. The outstanding feature of As Rock Riptide boards (they are newish) is that the HDMI port supports 120Hz. That is if you are building an APU based system though.

 

[chrcoluk]

I haven't seen many reviews yet but B650E Steel Legend looks like a solid choice, has 2 monitor outputs, and appears well balanced to me between USB, NVMe, and PCIe slots (and right now only about $200). Other than ECC are there any other particular features that are a must for you?

ASRock X670E Steel Legend Overview by Level1Techs Sep 27 2022

If its anything like the Z690 Steel Legend which priorities overall I/O such as PCIE slots, then that will be a good bet, the ASUS equivalent I think is their ProArt boards which also seem to prioritise I/O.

 

[ir_cow]

I haven't seen many reviews yet but B650E Steel Legend looks like a solid choice, has 2 monitor outputs, and appears well balanced to me between USB, NVMe, and PCIe slots (and right now only about $200). Other than ECC are there any other particular features that are a must for you?

ASRock X670E Steel Legend Overview by Level1Techs Sep 27 2022

I thought the B650E was good for its price https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asrock-b650e-steel-legend-wifi/

 

[xorbe]

Frankly I believe the asus tax has become way to high so I'd pass.

This, I bought an Asus Hero a long time back for $299, then the last PC was $449 for the similar Asus Hero board, now the latest model is $699 iirc. (Oops, it's $649.)

 

[Noci]

I personally wouldn't buy any A620 MB unless it's paired with APU or 65w CPU. I don't like 100c on the VRM just from gaming lol.

Not everybody agrees with you .

https://cultists.network/9590/modern-vrms-are-stupid/

I'm not an electrical engineer so have no outspoken opinion about this, but I do agree with that Leo guy who wrote the article that the present VRM-overkill hype just adds up to the exorbitant prices of modern mainboards.
Just a complentation, the chipset A620 is defined by it's features, not by the VRM's that the MB manufacterer has implemented on a specific A620 MB. So you made quite a bold statement, just imagine peeps on a budget that do not have that much of choice, I think they could use a some better subtantiated opinion.
From your other posts I know you are capable to.

 

[Nater]

Most of my personal systems have been Asus boards. Since the AthlonXP/nForce days, to the ROG Maximus Formula for my Q6600 (which spent a decade overclocked nearly 1Ghz, and still works); B450-F Gaming is running my kids 5800X rig now (2600 to 3600X to 5800X). Now I'm on a Z790 Pro-Art. They were the only ones w/ PD USB-C front panel charging when I got it. I wanted to go AM5 but that version of the board was getting scalper prices, if it was in stock at all when I did the build. Only issue I have/had with it is that I had no idea about Intel ME drivers coming from years of AMD rigs. I updated the bios without updating the drivers first and essentially bricked my PC. They did NOT make that clear at the time on their support site.

I've built a lot of rigs with MSI recently as well. (Z690). They're working great.

 

[ir_cow]

@Noci I'm not a expert on this either, but there is more to it than just total amperage.

You have vdroop, temperature voltage variance. Switching frequency just to name a few important ones.

Grab any datasheet you want on a motherboard for the VRM Mosfets. Check graphs and tell me how well it handles 100% load.

From first hand experience even split high and lows are inferior to the all-in-one types we are seeing now.

CPUs aren't 100MHz and 15 watts anymore. The voltage needs to be responsive and Mosfets need to supply high amperage without being at 100% load. In fact 30-50% is the ideal range for maximum efficiency.

I have a A620 and I was very much afraid it would burn out and take my CPU with it during the load testing phase. 100% would not recommend using a CPU over 65watts on them.

 

[DaemonForce]

Not everybody is going to agree and that's perfectly fine. When I made the jump from Phenom II to FX, the boards for these chips were very well built in terms of power phase design and the power stages themselves were extremely reasonable. We had options for anything between 25-125W CPUs at the time and had the wiggle room to do some pretty fair and serious overclocking on some otherwise very ordinary boards. Then as 140W seemed to be the OC ceiling, FX-9000 happened and we suddenly needed super built boards to carry an otherworldly 220W CPU and the consequential increases of overclocking it. Absolute space heater material.

At the time I still had a fairly modest 240mm aluminum rad with noisy 80mm fans and picked out the last 360mm copper rad kit offered by Koolance just to finally upgrade my antique chassis to handle FX chips and whatever comes after. Thankfully I made the right choice and went FX-8370 because there's no way I'm dumping a 220W heater job onto a loop that already struggled for most of its life and struggling with a 140W chip is kind of the limit for my ears.

Most AM4 chips like my 3600 hang out in the 65W territory and can be reasonably overclocked.
There are less than a dozen SKUs that shipped as 95W units and a little more than that are said to be 105W.
Kind of a weird difference just 10W can make but this is also the first time I've started to see smart power stages populate more than a few boards.

Now we're in a generation where 70A, 80A, 90A smart power stages are normal and lots of them.
The AM5 chips of this generation are also again, 65W majority.
95W SKUs have been MIA. They're just straight up gone. The outliers are now 105W and a peak 125W.
Then there are extreme outliers like the non-X3D 7900 series Raphael chips that are easily 170W.

We might be rapidly approaching another FX-9000 moment if this continues.
In the end we can expect an unreasonable capstone to the entire Ryzen series that goes full supernova.
Probably followed by a 125-140W revision that guys like me will snatch up very quickly as we're pretty crazy but not that crazy.
By then the boards are going to be loaded with 140A smart power stages with very bizarre integrated drivers and a whole universe of problems that will leave Asus wondering what the Intel doin?

 

[Chicken Patty]

ASUS X670E Hero here since last year, been running EXPO since the fix was released, zero issues thus far and absolutely love my ASUS board. Had a few boards prior to this one all with a different set of issues, this one since day one perfect. If I had to build another AM5 rig, I'd buy ASUS again.

 

[Vario]

AsRock has been fine for me, either Asus or AsRock would be fine. Its all luck these days with all the manufacturers.

 

[A Computer Guy]

@Noci I'm not a expert on this either, but there is more to it than just total amperage.

You have vdroop, temperature voltage variance. Switching frequency just to name a few important ones.

Grab any datasheet you want on a motherboard for the VRM Mosfets. Check graphs and tell me how well it handles 100% load.

From first hand experience even split high and lows are inferior to the all-in-one types we are seeing now.

CPUs aren't 100MHz and 15 watts anymore. The voltage needs to be responsive and Mosfets need to supply high amperage without being at 100% load. In fact 30-50% is the ideal range for maximum efficiency.

I have a A620 and I was very much afraid it would burn out and take my CPU with it during the load testing phase. 100% would not recommend using a CPU over 65watts on them.

What do you think about A620 with X3D chips? Any issues with say 7950X3D with it's lower TDP?

 

[ir_cow]

What do you think about A620 with X3D chips? Any issues with say 7950X3D with it's lower TDP?

I was being a little over dramatic. That was just my thoughts with a 7950X. Whether it's a X3D version of not, the main purpose of 16 cores is being able to use them all.

I think a 6 or 8 core would be fine. Just not 7950X wattage.

Edit: I never mentioned the MB. Its Gigabyte A620 Gaming-X. Never did finished the review. I did all the testing. But I would have said the same thing. Motherboards should not support CPUs that it can't handle reliably. Unfortunately it's the Chipset /socket that dictates what CPUs are supported. Gigabyte would look stupid and lose sales they were honest. Same with the other vendors.

What happened is somebody says hey this board only supports up to 7800X. But the other vendor supports 7950X. Except they're both equally shitty..

These 4-phase "50A" Mosfets don't cut it for the top end CPUs.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Gigabyte boards like to coil whine alot.

Reminds me of my Asus A7V8X-X, (Via KT400 chipset version) where it would squeal in DOS and the like, LOL. High-pitched in my case. It was a meme of that board, LOL.

 

[freeagent]

Reminds me of my Asus A7V8X-X, (Via KT400 chipset version) where it would squeal in DOS and the like, LOL. High-pitched in my case. It was a meme of that board, LOL.

I had the Nvidia version of that board, ever hear a CPU tick? I brought it up once at OCF but it was quickly passed off as VRM noise.. but to this day I am positive it was the CPU making a tick sound. Only when overclocked though. It was a Tbred 2600 iirc..

 

[A Computer Guy]

https://cultists.network/9590/modern-vrms-are-stupid/

Interesting link. I'm going to have to remember this one "...80c is really good when it comes to VRM temperatures..."
I have an ITX board (B550 Phantom Gaming-ITX/ax) and it's VRM heatsink does get quite warm even with airflow from an updraft or downdraft cooler.
It's a far cry better than their lower tier b450/x470/b550 ITX offerings that don't have as much VRM heatsink coverage.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

CPUs aren't 100MHz and 15 watts anymore. The voltage needs to be responsive and Mosfets need to supply high amperage without being at 100% load. In fact 30-50% is the ideal range for maximum efficiency.

I have a A620 and I was very much afraid it would burn out and take my CPU with it during the load testing phase. 100% would not recommend using a CPU over 65watts on them.

I started thinking this with my MSI B450 Tomahawk, after it unexpectedly was found off in my other room in August, 2022. Now, it looks like I had a false alarm and there's a connector that's known to just quietly go open. When that connector goes open, the motherboard BIOS or other parts don't get power and that explains why it doesn't even get an ATX power-on-signal.

The video showing how to fix that, was with a B450 Tomahawk Max, IIRC. I didn't have the Max version, but the Max version of that motherboard, seems to not bring much.

I had the Nvidia version of that board, ever hear a CPU tick? I brought it up once at OCF but it was quickly passed off as VRM noise.. but to this day I am positive it was the CPU making a tick sound. Only when overclocked though. It was a Tbred 2600 iirc..

I had the late nForce2 version of that one. The late-A7N8Xs, especially if it's a 2004, are the most likely to have faulty caps. They don't fail until years and years later, but then one day I saw caps bulging and leaking. Mine did that in the mid-2010s! It's because 2004 and 2005 were very-bad-production-run-years for the Chemi-con KZG caps. (Yes, it's a totally legit manufacturer and a whoops happened)

 

[A Computer Guy]

I have a A620 and I was very much afraid it would burn out and take my CPU with it during the load testing phase. 100% would not recommend using a CPU over 65watts on them.

I've been there I know what that's like. It's no fun when it happens and might produce toxic fumes.

 

[freeagent]

I've been there I know what that's like. It's no fun when it happens and might produce toxic fumes.

God damn that is mighty impressive.

 

[remixedcat]

So long as you buy a well reviewed product that's been on the market for awhile brand shouldn't matter much. Not sure I'd ever purchase an unreviewed ASUS product though, they just don't put the effort into their products to ensure they are bug free or often even safe at launch.

ASUS in general though has been going downhill for awhile now and I don't see their trajectory suddenly changing and their problems don't extend just to motherboards. The ASUS AX11000 router I have has an interface vastly inferior to the Netgear nighthawk I had with way more bugs (this is with years of updates to boot), the ASUS zenfone 8 I have frequently looses signal to the local cell tower, and the ASUS Xonar sound card I had nearly destroyed my hearing after encountering the infamous screeching bug. The only reason I have the former two is because I got good deals on them but even then I'm going to avoid ASUS for my next router and phone even at a discounted price. I just straight up threw out the sound card, worst audio product I've ever had.

The days of ASUS being high quality are long gone, they are more expensive than other brands while putting in minimum effort to get a product out the door.

ASRock is a good brand but not all their boards are amazing (same as every other brand). Really I'd just look at reviews and choose whichever fits your needs most. If there's a good quality ASRock board with ECC that you like I'd say go for it.



Yep, it was although the voltages post BIOS update are still higher on ASUS than other brands.

Have your tried alternate firmware on your router?? Like ddwrt or openwrt or whatever??

I wouldn't buy AssRack since they didn't even acknowledge burning not 3D cpu's, while Asus burned only 3D.
Msi took quite a while to fix slow boot times and released NVMe breaking biosses and shifted the blame on AMD. Gigabyte boards like to coil whine alot.
That leaves Biostar as the only reliable brand.

Biostar is still around?? Wow