AMD Rushing in Ryzen 7 9800X3D, Expect Product Launch Late-October

[btarunr]

Facing poor sales of its Ryzen 9000 "Granite Ridge" desktop processors, and with the spectre of Intel's Core Ultra "Arrow Lake-S" looming, AMD is rumored to have given its desktop processor roadmap a shakedown. The company is working to rush in at least one of the three upcoming Ryzen 9000X3D series processor SKUs. The Ryzen 7 9800X3D is a successor to the popular Ryzen 7 7800X3D. It pairs the new "Zen 5" microarchitecture with 3D V-cache technology to boost gaming performance. AMD is allegedly rushing the 9800X3D for a late-October launch. If this chip meets its performance targets (of around 15-20% over the 9700X), then AMD hopes it could take the edge off Intel's Core Ultra 200-series.

Launch of a Ryzen 9000X3D series product-stack became inevitable when AMD confirmed that the "Zen 5" CCD has silicon-level preparation for 3D V-cache (such as TSVs over the region with the on-die L3 cache that interface with the stacked L3D silicon), however, it was expected that the non-X3D Ryzen 9000 series, such as the 9700X, would perform close to the 7800X3D in games, giving AMD room to launch the 9800X3D in Q1-2025. Prior to the 7800X3D and Intel's 13th Gen Core "Raptor Lake," the Ryzen 7 7700X nearly matched the gaming performance of the Ryzen 7 5800X3D, and so something similar was expected of the 9700X. Of course things didn't go to plan, the 9700X fell significantly short of the 7800X3D in gaming, resulting in mixed reviews and low sales.



The 9800X3D won't be the only chip from the 9000X3D series, there are also the Ryzen 9 9900X3D and new flagship 9950X3D planned, however, zhangzhonghao, the user behind this leak, says that the dual-CCD processors will do something different to the 7900X3D and 7950X3D to attract the class of buyers that wants both flagship gaming performance and productivity performance competitive to the Core Ultra 9 285K. The user did not elaborate on what these "new features" are, but if we were to guess, it's likely that both CCDs on the processor get 3D V-cache. The 9900X3D and 9950X3D are on-track for a Q1-2025 release.



View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source

 

[SL2]

My only guess, or more like a wish, for 9900X3D and 9950X3D is 1 x 16 core Zen5C chiplet with even more V-cache as a compensation.

I don't know anything about the cons of using a 5C chiplet, besides having half of L3.

 

[yfn_ratchet]

My only guess, or more like a wish, for 9900X3D and 9950X3D is 1 x 16 core Zen5C chiplet with even more V-cache as a compensation.

I don't know anything about the cons of using a 5C chiplet, besides having half of L3.

Wouldn't make sense in terms of naming or the convention of the 9000 series, tho. Maybe for 10k? Or whatever the hell they'll call the Zen 5 APU re-up. As is, the shorter moonshot is that they would go double-barrel on X3D dies and skip the core affinity issues with Zen 4 X3D.

Another idea is that they'll have the normal X3D CCD and then the second CCD will be all Zen 5c yoinked from an Epyc production line. That would offer both the gaming perf and the 'productivity performance' in a similar philosophy to Intel dumping E-cores into their chip lineups.

 

[natr0n]

Those guys in the AMD testing labs are probably working their asses off.

 

[KLMR]

Instead of rushing a new CPU why don't they rush the Windows and BIOS patches to make their CPUs run fast and properly?

Why would anyone care to update their PC if its clear and present that some windows patches can boost the cpu half the way of a new platform?

 

[SL2]

Wouldn't make sense in terms of naming or the convention of the 9000 series, tho.

Why not?

As is, the shorter moonshot is that they would go double-barrel on X3D dies and skip the core affinity issues with Zen 4 X3D.

Another idea is that they'll have the normal X3D CCD and then the second CCD will be all Zen 5c yoinked from an Epyc production line. That would offer both the gaming perf and the 'productivity performance' in a similar philosophy to Intel dumping E-cores into their chip lineups.

You'd still have the problem with cores reaching for the cache on the other chiplet. No good, and worse than breaking the naming convention. If half cache is the only con with 5C, and if it got V-cache enough to compensate for that, what's the problem? No I'm actually asking.

 

[dgianstefani]

My only guess, or more like a wish, for 9900X3D and 9950X3D is 1 x 16 core Zen5C chiplet with even more V-cache as a compensation.

I don't know anything about the cons of using a 5C chiplet, besides having half of L3.

Literally impossible. Zen C doesn't have the through vias for 3DVCache.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

the user behind this leak, says that the dual-CCD processors will do something different to the 7900X3D and 7950X3D to attract the class of buyers that wants both flagship gaming performance and productivity performance competitive to the Core Ultra 9 285K

"Yo dawg. We heard you like CPU Cache. So we put some more caches in your CPU so your CPU can cache its cache as it caches more cache" - Lisa 'Based' Su

 

[SL2]

Literally impossible. Zen C doesn't have the through vias for 3DVCache.

How do you know that?

 

[Battler624]

Why not?

You'd still have the problem with cores reaching for the cache on the other chiplet. No good, and worse than breaking the naming convention. If half cache is the only con with 5C, and if it got V-cache enough to compensate for that, what's the problem? No I'm actually asking.

Just fix in driver-wide with a whitelist.
People are doing it manually with process lasso, AMD is semi doing it with xbox game bar.
Just make a pure gaming profile in your driver that strictly does process affinity for 3D chips.

 

[Kapone33]

Wouldn't make sense in terms of naming or the convention of the 9000 series, tho. Maybe for 10k? Or whatever the hell they'll call the Zen 5 APU re-up. As is, the shorter moonshot is that they would go double-barrel on X3D dies and skip the core affinity issues with Zen 4 X3D.

Another idea is that they'll have the normal X3D CCD and then the second CCD will be all Zen 5c yoinked from an Epyc production line. That would offer both the gaming perf and the 'productivity performance' in a similar philosophy to Intel dumping E-cores into their chip lineups.

That is already the 7900X3D and 7950X3D.

 

[SL2]

Instead of rushing a new CPU why don't they rush the Windows and BIOS patches to make their CPUs run fast and properly?

They've already done that.

 

[phanbuey]

Literally impossible. Zen C doesn't have the through vias for 3DVCache.

It's the concept though -- they would still have to have had designed a Zen C core with the necessary TSVs -- would be a modification of an existing design(s).

...
Another idea is that they'll have the normal X3D CCD and then the second CCD will be all Zen 5c yoinked from an Epyc production line. That would offer both the gaming perf and the 'productivity performance' in a similar philosophy to Intel dumping E-cores into their chip lineups.

It's a good idea in theory but that would have the same scheduler issues that E cores and dual CCD designs have. For sure windows scheduler would make this difficult.

This is a good move though, if they sat around and did nothing they would get crushed by arrow lake sales.

 

[net2007]

AMD clearly does not have good marketing practice. They should be releasing their best SKU first. What a disaster.

 

[z1n0x]

My only guess, or more like a wish, for 9900X3D and 9950X3D is 1 x 16 core Zen5C chiplet with even more V-cache as a compensation.

I don't know anything about the cons of using a 5C chiplet, besides having half of L3.

The "C" stands for Compact. It's lower frequency design, optimized for density and power efficiency. Useful for data centers and mobile, but not really suitable for high-end PC gaming. And more cache isn't always better, as you run into diminishing returns and bottlenecks in other parts of the system.

 

[SL2]

Just fix in driver-wide with a whitelist.
People are doing it manually with process lasso, AMD is semi doing it with xbox game bar.
Just make a pure gaming profile in your driver that strictly does process affinity for 3D chips.

That's old stuff, and definitely not what I'd call "cool differentiators".

AMD: "Hey we fixed our driver, which we should have done in time for the last launch two years ago."

That driver would most likely work with 7900X3D and 7950X3D as well, which means the new models doesn't differ in thet regard in ANY WAY from older models.

Nope.

 

[Deleted member 223428]

AMD clearly does not have good marketing practice. They should be releasing their best SKU first. What a disaster.

While I don't disagree about their marketing practice, I'm pretty sure the 9800X3D will be their best gaming CPU this time around. Again. Just like 5800X3D, and 7800X3D.

 

[anonuser57]

My only guess, or more like a wish, for 9900X3D and 9950X3D is 1 x 16 core Zen5C chiplet with even more V-cache as a compensation.

I don't know anything about the cons of using a 5C chiplet, besides having half of L3.

Even if you assume 5C can have 3d v-cache and won't lose clock speeds compared to regular zen5 with v-cache it still doesn't make sense. The 5C CCDs are split into 2 CCXs so you will either get one CCX with 80mb L3 and one with 16 or both with 48mb L3. In either case worse than the two CCD layout. Plus that two CCX layout gives no advantages to core to core communication.

 

[phints]

My 5800X build is 4 years old... 9800X3D or 265K. What will it be boys?

 

[SL2]

It's lower frequency design,

Finally someone with a decent explanation. Do you know the limit for them? I've seen 5.1 GHz in HX 370.

And more cache isn't always better, as you run into diminishing returns and bottlenecks in other parts of the system.

Now you lost me again lol. We're talking 3D CPU models here, which actually has a lot of cache. With current 3D models having 12 MB L3/core, and 5C having 2 MB/core, you'd have to add V-cache.

They should be releasing their best SKU first. What a disaster.

Flamebait of the day. I'll take it.

Do you even remember how much shit AMD got for releasing the more expensive models first the last time? A whopping 43 days or so. People said they tried to milk impatient customers.

 

[Vayra86]

"Yo dawg. We heard you like CPU Cache. So we put some more caches in your CPU so your CPU can cache its cache as it caches more cache" - Lisa 'Based' Su

" Cold, hard cache is what we want! "

 

[Ayhamb99]

From what i remember from the Zen 5 release, one of the big issues regarding Zen 5 was the inter core latency aka Inter-CCD latency, if I am not mistaken, wouldn't the significantly higher amount of cache help offset/reduce the latency since the cache hit rate would be improved? If so, perhaps the 9800X3D will finally show a much bigger performance gain at least for gaming over Zen 4. Very exciting

Again though, they blundered the release of Zen 5 by not releasing this first alongside the normal Zen 5 chips, While AMD's engineers deserve all the praise for their great work, AMD's marketing team deserve to get fired with the constant blunders.

My 5800X build is 4 years old... 9800X3D or 265K. What will it be boys?

Better to wait until both of them release lol, it highly depends on what games you play and whether these games benefit more from extra cache or from higher clocks. I would be more wary of Intel though because the way they handled the 13th gen/14th gen burnouts was just scummy if you care about proper warranty support.

Do you even remember how much shit AMD got for releasing the more expensive models first the last time? A whopping 43 days or so. People said they tried to milk impatient customers.

I don't recall people getting angry at AMD for releasing the more expensive models first, don't they release all Skus at once? Unless my memory is failing me.

Also considering how little the uplift in performance of the Zen 5 chips was over Zen 4 at least for gaming, it would have made way more sense to release the Zen 5 X3D chips alongside the normal Zen 5 ones at the time.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

While I don't disagree about their marketing practice, I'm pretty sure the 9800X3D will be their best gaming CPU this time around. Again. Just like 5800X3D, and 7800X3D.

They'll definitely just leave it to the user to fix the 9950X3D and 9900X3D I'm doubtful they will have scheduling properly sorted considering they couldn't even launch the regular 9000 series properly.

 

[yfn_ratchet]

That is already the 7900X3D and 7950X3D.

7900/7950X3D was two Zen 4 dies, one with V-Cache, one without. No 4c to be found anywhere, it only cropped up on desktop with select Ryzen 8000 processors. The setup with Zen 4 X3D also caused a lot of issues because (obviously) there wasn't a whole lot of knowledge on how programs would handle the hybridized setup.

It's a good idea in theory but that would have the same scheduler issues that E cores and dual CCD designs have. For sure windows scheduler would make this difficult.

This is a good move though, if they sat around and did nothing they would get crushed by arrow lake sales.

And on that topic, yeah an X3D/5c setup would almost certainly cause a repeat of the scruples that arose in the early days of hybrid core, but maybe to a lesser degree since there's prior knowledge to consider now. I also imagine that we won't see a lot of the same issues with Zen 4's hybrids, since the 5c die would clock lower than the X3D die rather than higher like what happened with the 7900X3D/7950X3D. It might be closer to Alder Lake E-core issues.

 

[SL2]

it would have made way more sense to release the Zen 5 X3D chips alongside the normal Zen 5 ones at the time.

Maybe, but don't think AMD was capable to do that. Also, now they got a few problems fixed before next launch.

" Cold, hard cache is what we want! "

I'm pretty sure dual V-cache chiplets have been debunked by AMD, it's not worthwhile.

That setup also caused a lot of issues

A lot? Do you have any examples? I'd assume this would be a problem for Strix point as well, even if not having 4C.