Microsoft Details New Windows 11 Update System To Manage App Updates in Addition to Windows Systems and Drivers

[Readlight]

They give driver updates that don't work, especially i2c.
Also can't stop these monthly automatic updates.

Windows 10 is very slow OS vs 8.

And still has not fixed non responsive black screen, after 10 mins sleep or screen off.

 

[Shihab]

I think the reduced conflicts premise is misleading at best and downright false at worst. They haven't said anything about dependency tracking, which is a core task of any platform-wide package management process. Their description makes this little more than an over-glorified update notification system and an easier way to set a scheduled task for installers.

That said, and I have to admit, this may not necessary be a bad thing in itself. Having half a dozen update orchestrators on your system does make maintaining it a little bit annoying, and it definitely incurs costs to storage/processing.
I can see browser makers making use of this. Mozilla does implement a Windows service for this and iirc so does Chrome. But I don't see vendors monopolising professional software niches (*cough*Autodesk*cough*) reducing the bloat they shove down their choiceless "customers'" throats.

I don't think they are designing this with regards to normal consumers, they are clearly business focused on this decision. A lot of companies with overstressed admins will be more than happy to donate the responsibility, and if it breaks "its Microsoft's problem". Those with more critical infrastructure will not be happy at all to be losing control though.

I agree that it most likely will be used as a CYA tool, but I don't think it's designed for enterprise. If the latter was the case, they would have integrated it with configmgr or intune or whatever.
Nah, this sounds like it's going to be a core Windows functionality. Gotta make use of those billions of beta testers out there..

 

[Tomorrow]

7 can run happily on a HDD

Does not mean it's a good experience. My first 64GB SSD was with Win 7 and the difference with HDD was monumental. Especially doing windows updates or anything more demanding that required lot's of disk access.

 

[john_]

Does not mean it's a good experience. My first 64GB SSD was with Win 7 and the difference with HDD was monumental. Especially doing windows updates or anything more demanding that required lot's of disk access.

Win7 on HDD is usable. Win10 on HDD is nightmare.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The last version of Windows that the user had total control over their system, was Windows XP.
That's why people where sticking on that version(plus it was much lighter) and not wanting to go to Windows 7, that today we consider as the best Windows version.

Up until Windows 8.1, really, you had the keys to the kingdom. XP didn't offer anything in that regard, other than the lack of user account control (making it extremely insecure). It was with Windows 10, when they made it a live service, rolling release OS, that this was taken from us

Win7 on HDD is usable. Win10 on HDD is nightmare.

Nah, it's about the same thing. HDDs are slow due to seek time, not throughput, so regardless of the OS you have to wait out on HDD seek times, and that is what makes the experience miserable. Not sure if you had the chance to experience old versions of Windows on an SSD, but you haven't seen fast until you've seen that.

 

[chrcoluk]

Battle between developers and end user for control of the desktop. A fragmented eco system is only a problem for developers (who think everyone should always be on the latest version of software, not using eol software etc.), end users dont care for the most part, they update when they want, they keep old versions when they want.

About time. Its particularly irksome in an Enterprise environment the sheer multitude of app delivery formats.

That said, Microsoft needs to enforce packaging standards with this (and the Windows Store). I thought Winget would solve this, but we still have apps packaged from msix's all the way to custom exe's and everything in between with no standard way to control install options.

The right to not upgrade and downgrade is important. This is the problem with using something like a store for distribution. Some might mention steam, but steam are unusual in that they allow you to grab older versions.

 

[windwhirl]

No reason we can't control this with update policies like we do everything else.

Microsoft broke the driver update policy a few times. More than once I have found they updated my Radeon driver to the shit version they have on Windows Update, despite me setting the policy to not get driver updates through Windows Update.

 

[john_]

Up until Windows 8.1, really, you had the keys to the kingdom. XP didn't offer anything in that regard, other than the lack of user account control (making it extremely insecure). It was with Windows 10, when they made it a live service, rolling release OS, that this was taken from us

Windows XP was an OS that you could do anything with it and any data on the storage devices. Win7 started adding security left and right.

Nah, it's about the same thing. HDDs are slow due to seek time, not throughput, so regardless of the OS you have to wait out on HDD seek times, and that is what makes the experience miserable. Not sure if you had the chance to experience old versions of Windows on an SSD, but you haven't seen fast until you've seen that.

Believe me, I know. It's definitely not. Not even close. Win10 asks much more from the storage device. I have seen it at schools and very old systems that they came with Windows 7. When 10 where out as a free upgrade from 7, many click the button to upgrade. Big mistake. They didn't knew. After that the systems got so slow that it was a nightmare. Even clean installing Win10 on a HDD is like looking for torture. On the other hand Win7 where made when SSDs where nowhere to be seen and HDDs like WD's Raptor was what people where dreaming to get. So they are much easier on the storage device.
Old windows version on SSD are pretty fast, booting no so fast, not because of the SSD, but the time older BIOSes take to recognise devices and boot up. Of cource in a Windows XP enviroment performance is as fast as someone would imagine, because Windows XP doesn't have a gazillion of tasks running in the background. I am not speculating here.

 

[windwhirl]

Hopefully Valve could convince us in a few years to go to SteamOS or something

Unreasonable. Enterprise and business care not for this and will stick to whatever they're using for the most part (mostly Windows for client devices and some internal servers that are not internet-facing). Everyone else that's not Enterprise/business ? A good chunk will likely stay on Windows because of software that doesn't exist on Linux. Another good chunk will never move out of Windows unless running Windows software on Linux is done flawlessly and the end user doesn't have to do anything, not even touch a terminal once nor setup anything. Just click the exe and it working out of the box as if it were Windows.

Unless you get that level of simplicity, forget it.

They haven't said anything about dependency tracking, which is a core task of any platform-wide package management process.

To this day I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't just include every Net framework and Visual Basic/C runtime version with Windows already. Though, I'd imagine they could do it like Steam. Install runtimes as needed.

Some might mention steam, but steam are unusual in that they allow you to grab older versions.

If the developer allows it. I think Steam updates regardless, though the developer can allow you to use a separate update channel, which they can use to allow you to freeze a game in a certain version (Resident Evil 2 Remake has this, with the DX11 version of the game being on a different update channel, if you don't want to use the DX12 version)

 

[HD64G]

That's a bummer! They have already a bad record with updates beaking the OS. Now it will be a complete mess once a person allows the OS to install and update drivers. From low to even lower levels of quality for MS in the last at least 5 years.

 

[Daven]

Next opportunity I get I’m switching to Linux. I want off this rollercoaster.

 

[Camm]

Next opportunity I get I’m switching to Linux. I want off this rollercoaster.

Linux Desktop is not your saviour lol.

 

[chrcoluk]

Unreasonable. Enterprise and business care not for this and will stick to whatever they're using for the most part (mostly Windows for client devices and some internal servers that are not internet-facing). Everyone else that's not Enterprise/business ? A good chunk will likely stay on Windows because of software that doesn't exist on Linux. Another good chunk will never move out of Windows unless running Windows software on Linux is done flawlessly and the end user doesn't have to do anything, not even touch a terminal once nor setup anything. Just click the exe and it working out of the box as if it were Windows.

Unless you get that level of simplicity, forget it.


To this day I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't just include every Net framework and Visual Basic/C runtime version with Windows already. Though, I'd imagine they could do it like Steam. Install runtimes as needed.


If the developer allows it. I think Steam updates regardless, though the developer can allow you to use a separate update channel, which they can use to allow you to freeze a game in a certain version (Resident Evil 2 Remake has this, with the DX11 version of the game being on a different update channel, if you don't want to use the DX12 version)

There is a command you can run in the console to download to a previous published build, its not to do with the UI channel option. The most recent game I did it on was dune spice wars, as I got annoyed they basically redesigned the game whilst I was mid campaign.

I also did it on FF13-2 when SE pushed an update to remove content, ran the command, got the content back.

 

[john_]

Unreasonable. Enterprise and business care not for this and will stick to whatever they're using for the most part (mostly Windows for client devices and some internal servers that are not internet-facing). Everyone else that's not Enterprise/business ? A good chunk will likely stay on Windows because of software that doesn't exist on Linux. Another good chunk will never move out of Windows unless running Windows software on Linux is done flawlessly and the end user doesn't have to do anything, not even touch a terminal once nor setup anything. Just click the exe and it working out of the box as if it were Windows.

Unless you get that level of simplicity, forget it.

For many many years I believe that Linux needs a big corporation behind a distro. And Valve could be just that. In enterprise, if I am not mistaken there is RedHat and SuSe and who else. In desktop it's more like a huge pile of distros and the average user having to choose who to believe when asking "which should I choose for me?". Then companies behind hardware making drivers for that hardware is another mess where they build the necessary package for distros 1, 2 3 and instead of hearing "bravos" they get more complains from those using distros 4, 5 and 6 because the driver needs modification to run there(I haven't touched Linux the last 10 years, so what I describe might be outdated and stupidly.... stupid).

With Valve behind ONE distro that is also the best for running games (and windows applications with the help of emulation?) we have a starting point where the average user can enter the Linux world. That could change the OS landscape in the next 5-10 years.

 

[Raiden85]

To be honest, it's about time that something was done about updating different programs from .exe. When it comes to updates, if you have quite a few installed, it’s a massive pain in the arse to do them one by one. Thankfully, there are third-party tools to automate this a bit.

If MS wants to help make any kind of app updates easier, I’m all for it. But I wish every app store provided the option to roll back at least once in case of a bad update.

 

[Bobaganoosh]

WU is so bad at drivers though. They keep "updating" Intel IGPU driver to 4502, which is from 2023. I've seen this on multiple computers with different cpus. Always 4502. Sometimes it'll try to install a newer one, then later 4502 again. You'll try to install some other update and they just ram 4502 in without asking... For years now.

 

[Daven]

Linux Desktop is not your saviour lol.

I’ll leave the saving up to Jesus.

 

[Easo]

And deleted my office 2019 in the computer, replaced with the useless office 365 'Desktop APP'.
Rollback button is grey.
I have to manually uninstall that crap and manually re-install my office 2019.

Yeah I am going to call BS on this. O365 does not by itself reinstall standalone products unless you for some reason run O365 setup with config file set to do that.
And that app by itself also does not replace Office, it's basically launchpad for it, not to mention it's .appx as opposed to .exe of the Office itself.
P.S.
Pretty sure 2019 is using Click-2-Run update system, just like O365, confusion might be here.

 

[Chrispy_]

Microsoft's utter ineptitude and continuous push for dumb marketing shit and forced product changes that confuses people guarantee that I will never be out of work, for as long as Microsoft continue to hold the majority of the marketshare.

 

[tommo1982]

I am very glad it doesn't affect me. One od the BSOD updates made me switch to Mint. I can play the games through Proton. The systen doed what I want. It's not as easy for corporate users, but regural user can exit the Windows train and find peace of mind.

 

[Hecate91]

Hopefully Valve could convince us in a few years to go to SteamOS or something.

I think Valve is getting there, but who knows that Valve is going to bother with a general release of Steam OS, with drivers compatible enough to run on any gaming PC?
And I sort of doubt Valve would want to even bother with the effort, when Windows users tolerate so much crap of losing control of their system with forced updates and still insist they need Microsoft for their AAA games clogged with DRM and Windows only anti-cheats.

Linux Desktop is not your saviour lol.

Linux doesn't need to be, it only has to be less of a pain to use than Windows.

 

[Camm]

Linux doesn't need to be, it only has to be less of a pain to use than Windows.

As a Linux user I can assure you that Linux Desktop is in no way less of a pain to use than Windows.

 

[Legacy-ZA]

Mmm, wonder if this is why I have so few issues, when I got this GPU, I did a clean O/S install, and I mean clean, I cut out co-pilot, x-box crap, widgets, the store, internet explorer, local account etc etc. so much junk that bogs down ones experience.

That being said, I fear each update I make.

 

[LastDudeALive]

the way things are currently handled causes a number of issues, including CPU and network usage spikes

I can spike my 5800X3D from 2% to 10% usage just by opening the start menu. Take the Redwood forest out of your own eye first before addressing the "issue" of third-party app updates.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Does not mean it's a good experience.

Yes it does. Windows 7 on a fast HDD is a perfectly good experience. Hell Windows 11 on a fast HDD is a good experience. Don't make baseless claims in a forum with people who have actual done what you're talking about.