Intel Skips NPU Upgrade for Arrow Lake Refresh, AMD Cancels Medusa Halo in Latest Rumors

[Nomad76]

Intel's Arrow Lake-S desktop update set for the latter part of 2025 might not bring the expected boost in AI capabilities. New information from Jaykihn, a leaker known for sharing regular updates on Intel roadmaps hints that this update will keep the current NPU 3 design instead of using the more advanced NPU 4 found in Intel's Lunar Lake laptop chips. The existing Arrow Lake desktop line uses NPU 3, which came out in 2023 with Meteor Lake and offers 11.5 TOPS of AI power. This falls well short of the 40 TOPS needed for Microsoft Copilot+ certification. Intel's Lunar Lake laptop processors have the upgraded NPU 4, which can reach up to 48 TOPS making them Copilot+ ready. By sticking with NPU 3 in the desktop update, Intel's desktop chips will still trail behind laptop offerings from AMD and Apple in AI speed. Without NPU upgrades, the Arrow Lake update seems to offer small increases in clock speed and continued production on Intel's 20A process. This small step forward might not be enough, given Intel's shrinking market share and the need for bigger design improvements to stay competitive.

At the same time AMD might face some problems with reports suggesting that Medusa Halo, which was supposed to come after Strix Halo, has been scrapped. This news comes from HXL, a leaker with a decent track record. This could mean that Intel's Nova Lake-AX is left without any real competition in a market where Strix Halo and Apple's chips are the big players. If this is true, it shows a big change in AMD's plans for high-end mobile computing.



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[john_]

I guess Intel is in the same position as AMD was 12 years ago, canceling projects and refreshing products as a mean to cut development costs.

 

[phanbuey]

What exactly is the point of the refresh? More Ecores?

 

[igormp]

So Strix Halo was just an one-off without a successor? Bummer

 

[megamanxtreme]

Intel is finally dying & I'm super happy about this.

I agree with you about Intel needing to have a hard sit with their questionable practices, this is just karma repaying a favor. Then again, competition is needed for us to win on the price wars. The more players the more favors for us.

What we need is Strix Halo to be more affordable. Since we doubt that would happen, we have to keep waiting for mid-range products to reach those levels in 5 - 10 years, better off with a dedicated CPU/GPU combo.

 

[CosmicWanderer]

Intel is finally dying & I'm super happy about this.
After all!
10 years of absolute stagnation with a surplus bonus of cultural degradation is what Intel deserves to get today = Death.
Rest in.... hell Intel, I will not even miss you.
View attachment 408270

You shouldn't be happy about it, because AMD will turn into the next Intel.

With no competition AMD will have very little reason to innovate, and you'll be stuck with minor refreshes year after year and high prices because there's no one to challenge them.

As much as I dislike Intel, I'm hoping they get their act together and start competing again, which will continue to push AMD to be better.

 

[Deleted member 250678]

this is just karma repaying a favor.

Exactly!!!
& this process is absolutely not reversible.

The show must go on, but only among the remaining players.
Unfortunately in this game - Who is dead can't be revived anymore, sorry bro, but it's like that.

 

[TristanX]

Cancellation of Medusa Halo is pretty logical. GPU tile will remain on N4, only new CPU tiles could be added. But there is no need for more x86 cores, as 16 currently is way to much.

 

[Easo]

For Intel everything is gone.
Are you even aware that in 2028 the ram slots will slowly start to disappear? (In summary: the OTS memories are basically here.)
So what Intel is preparing for 2028?
Intel is still working on it's own Spintronics/Valleytronics?
What's the roadmap for the future if the only future which Intel gives is only about layoffs????

It's over, Rest In Sufferance Shintel View attachment 408272

Did you miss what he said? If Intel dies YOU are going to be the one getting that middle finger - this time from AMD.
Monopolies are inherently anti-consumer.

 

[Deleted member 250678]

Did you miss what he said? If Intel dies YOU are going to be the one getting that middle finger - this time from AMD.

Are you seriously thinking like that or just playing the dumb ass?
Do you really think that AMD can afford to be relaxed with all these new players around?
Seriously???

Hahahaha ... well, I'm no one to judge you for this.

 

[Easo]

Are you seriously thinking like that or just playing the dumb ass?
With all these new players around do you really think that AMD can afford to be relaxed?
Seriously???

Hahahaha ... well, I'm no one to judge you for this.

I am sorry - but what new players in CPU market are you talking about?

China ones are out for wider world + not quite yet at AMD/Intel level and ARM derivatives are still in theoretical for the box sitting on/under your table.

 

[Deleted member 250678]

I am sorry - but what new players in CPU market are you talking about?

What about Nvidia? Qualcomm? What about RISC-V breathing behind everybody's neck?

What about Xiaomi's ARM based cpu? What if tomorrow the sanctions will be lifted and finally this chip will enter the world wide competition like everybody else?

P.S:

https://en.eeworld.com.cn/news/manufacture/eic701276.html

Nvidia here sends a clear signal about it's intentions for the future.
Nvidia is preparing to dump ARM with it's royalty fees to switch on RISC-V instead.

 

[TristanX]

What about Nvidia? Qualcomm? What about RISC-V breathing behind everybody's neck?

What about Xiaomi's ARM based cpu? What if tomorrow the sanctions will be lifted and finally this chip will enter the world wide competition like everybody else?

P.S:

https://en.eeworld.com.cn/news/manufacture/eic701276.html

Nvidia here sends a clear signal about it's intentions for the future.
Nvidia is preparing to dump ARM with it's royalty fees to switch on RISC-V instead.

Don't be so fast with Intel demise. In fact AMD position is in bigger danger than Intel.
Intel is pushing money to revive fabs, and this alone is generating financial loss. But they do not have to have their fabs. They can dump it any day, and become highly profitable company again.

ARM and RICS-V are not immediate replacement for x86, it will take decade or longer, in most optimistic way. Currently Intel lost biggest share in server market, but clients picked AMD, not ARM, for obvious reason, x86.

 

[Deleted member 250678]

Intel's demise made by Intel it self.
I will never pay a single cent from my pocket to save a degenerative corporation like Intel with AMD included in the package.
My true & genuine wish is only for Nvidia's N1x being a nice soc for it's price so I can give a very big Hasta la vista to Shintel with AMD altogether.

Last thing about all this mess is: the people should never be supposed to pay from their pocket the price for the mistakes of corporations!

Bye & good luck for everybody!

 

[kondamin]

It would be a huge mistake not to add npu4 from a commercial standpoint.
I hope this """"source"""" is wrong.

Microsoft is doing all the advertising by pushing copilot+ not having anything for the desktop that can service that market now windows 10 is being killed off.

 

[freeagent]

They just need some time to pull their balls together. They will come back swinging. Maybe by then AMD will have run out of ideas and resort to near stagnation.

At least Intel can make their own stuff if they have to, AMD nor Nvidia can say the same thing..

 

[Hecate91]

What about Nvidia? Qualcomm? What about RISC-V breathing behind everybody's neck?

What about Xiaomi's ARM based cpu? What if tomorrow the sanctions will be lifted and finally this chip will enter the world wide competition like everybody else?

P.S:

https://en.eeworld.com.cn/news/manufacture/eic701276.html

Nvidia here sends a clear signal about it's intentions for the future.
Nvidia is preparing to dump ARM with it's royalty fees to switch on RISC-V instead.

Nvidia N1X got delayed, Qualcomm laptops are too expensive for the average consumer and lack compatibility or performance compared to running x86 applications natively on an x86 CPU. RISC-V doesn't have any consumer market adoption and the chances of it gaining any market share other than in enthusiast hardware isn't that great.
IMO, what Intel needs to do is start using their own fabs and come up with a completely new architecture.

It would be a huge mistake not to add npu4 from a commercial standpoint.
I hope this """"source"""" is wrong.

Microsoft is doing all the advertising by pushing copilot+ not having anything for the desktop that can service that market now windows 10 is being killed off.

What exactly does copilot+ or an NPU do that the average desktop user needs? MS is pushing very hard for something people don't care about.

 

[hsew]

So Strix Halo was just an one-off without a successor? Bummer

Serious question, who is actually going out of their way to buy Strix Halo? It’s overpriced and uses an older GPU architecture. Maybe AMD realized this and wisely decided not to refocus since Medusa Point was originally slated to STILL BE USING RDNA 3.5, and with nVidia’s N1X looming, AMD realized sooner rather than later that a half-@seed GPU wasn’t gonna cut it. Hopefully they accelerate the development of a halo APU with either RDNA 4+ or UDNA. And hopefully they’ll get more GPU performance than a 5060 Mobile this time too. Ideally, 5070Ti Mobile performance. That’s not an unreasonable demand either.

 

[TheinsanegamerN]

What exactly is the point of the refresh? More Ecores?

Gotta keep incrementing the model numbers to keep consumers consooming the latest and greatest. Keeping the same model numbers for two gens would decrease sales even though there is no functional difference.

Serious question, who is actually going out of their way to buy Strix Halo? It’s overpriced and uses an older GPU architecture. Maybe AMD realized this and wisely decided not to refocus since Medusa Point was originally slated to STILL BE USING RDNA 3.5, and with nVidia’s N1X looming, AMD realized sooner rather than later that a half-@seed GPU wasn’t gonna cut it. Hopefully they accelerate the development of a halo APU with either RDNA 4+ or UDNA. And hopefully they’ll get more GPU performance than a 5060 Mobile this time too. Ideally, 5070Ti Mobile performance. That’s not an unreasonable demand either.

rDNA4 was not optimized for mobile performance at all. Strix Halo has certainly generated some interest, given how hard these devices are to find.

The only thing that kept me from them was the insane cost. The only real laptop so far is the one HP G1a whatever, and we're talking of spending $4k+ to get a 128GB model.

My hope was we'd eventually get one that traded the two 8c CCDs with a single 12c CCD with a x3d cache and the 40 CU GPU.

 

[RandallFlagg]

It would be a huge mistake not to add npu4 from a commercial standpoint.
I hope this """"source"""" is wrong.

Microsoft is doing all the advertising by pushing copilot+ not having anything for the desktop that can service that market now windows 10 is being killed off.

I don't think NPU is that big a deal, and it definitely isn't in the market right now. Nobody cares except a few who got hoodwinked by AI propaganda. Local AI power is pretty lame, what is the killer app function of CoPilot+?

Literally speaking, a generic 5060 gets 641 TOPS, 16X that of AMDs AI laptop APUs and 18X that of an Apple A18. Bump up to 5070 and you're talking 1180 TOPS. Even an old card like a 2060 6GB gets a 70-75 TOPS rating. None of these NPUs are doing much.

 

[kondamin]

Nvidia N1X got delayed, Qualcomm laptops are too expensive for the average consumer and lack compatibility or performance compared to running x86 applications natively on an x86 CPU. RISC-V doesn't have any consumer market adoption and the chances of it gaining any market share other than in enthusiast hardware isn't that great.
IMO, what Intel needs to do is start using their own fabs and come up with a completely new architecture.

What exactly does copilot+ or an NPU do that the average desktop user needs? MS is pushing very hard for something people don't care about.

Nothing of any significance at the moment just like RTX was a big nothing burger when nvidia launched that.
But, techies like us who care enough to look into things like this are in a tiny minority.
I feel a big chunk of people will be convinced by the advertising and a computer that is Copilot + and sales people will be pushing those extra hard.

And given how much money is involved developers will be working really hard to bring something that is going to be using them soon enough.
For people buying a computer once every decade having a system that has one is important even if it's a little one.

I don't think NPU is that big a deal, and it definitely isn't in the market right now. Nobody cares except a few who got hoodwinked by AI propaganda. Local AI power is pretty lame, what is the killer app function of CoPilot+?

Literally speaking, a generic 5060 gets 641 TOPS, 16X that of AMDs AI laptop APUs and 18X that of an Apple A18. Bump up to 5070 and you're talking 1180 TOPS. Even an old card like a 2060 6GB gets a 70-75 TOPS rating. None of these NPUs are doing much.

How large is the group buying systems with dedicated gpu's vs the group that gets systems with an igpu?
as stated in my previous post, I believe npu's for local processing will be a thing needed in the coming years
techies like us don't mind spending some money on new gear every now and then. we are a minority.

 

[Sol_Badguy]

What exactly is the point of the refresh? More Ecores?

Stalling until Nova Lake lands and also probably some tweaks that will be of the "learning from past mistakes" variety, also the inherent "tick-tock" variety and last but not least the "overclock until it degrades just to catch up on the competition" variety.

It would be a huge mistake not to add npu4 from a commercial standpoint.
I hope this """"source"""" is wrong.

Microsoft is doing all the advertising by pushing copilot+ not having anything for the desktop that can service that market now windows 10 is being killed off.

It is already a huge mistake to have Arrow Lake not be Copilot+ compliant, wasted opportunity.

What exactly does copilot+ or an NPU do that the average desktop user needs? MS is pushing very hard for something people don't care about.

Nothing really but that is irrelevant, as perception trumps utility, and Intel would've benefitted from ticking that checkbox, it would have given them a perceived advantage over the competition, more "features" and all that, now it can be leveraged against them as "wasted die space without even being able to run Copilot". And for good reason, that little useless NPU stinker sits next to the memory controller while the useful compute tile has high latency.

 

[tfp]

You shouldn't be happy about it, because AMD will turn into the next Intel.

With no competition AMD will have very little reason to innovate, and you'll be stuck with minor refreshes year after year and high prices because there's no one to challenge them.

As much as I dislike Intel, I'm hoping they get their act together and start competing again, which will continue to push AMD to be better.

If 9XXX series is an indication we are already getting that on the desktop side.

 

[ARF]

The RX 8060S in the top Strix Halo AMD Ryzen AI Max+ 395 is already as fast as RTX 5060.
It was rumoured that the newer RX 9060S in Medusa Halo AMD Ryzen AI Max+ 495 would hit RTX 5070 Ti performance levels.

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/103651/amds-next-gen-medusa-halo-apu-leaks-zen-6-chip-rumored-with-rtx-5070-ti-levels-of-gaming-perf/index.html

AMD Radeon RX 8060S - Benchmarks and Specs

Specifications and benchmarks of the AMD Radeon RX 8060S GPU.

www.notebookcheck.net

Does anyone of you even know that and bought Strix Halo ?

 

[xSneak]

Intel is finally dying & I'm super happy about this.
After all!
10 years of absolute stagnation with a surplus bonus of cultural degradation is what Intel deserves to get today = Death.
Rest in.... hell Intel, I will not even miss you.
View attachment 408270

Great ragebait post. I also love that you have a brand new account yet can post giant images in the comment section right under news stories.