14700K overclocking issue

[VortexSupernova]

Oh wow, a desktop user!
Sorry, it's been a while.

My 14700K won't overclock. Now, I have a few theories. And yes I have the headroom, at least when using under 8 performance cores (I can run 5.6ghz indefinitely below 92c, am using mx-5 which is less than ideal, but my 420mm radiator works).
My motherboard DOES allow overclocking, it's the Aorus Elite AX Z790. I've also made sure I can overclock (I can do it through gigabyte control centre, but I don't want to use it because it'll force a single clockspeed across all cores rather than be dynamic).
Here's my setup for FIVR:

I know it's probably gonna crash on those higher clock speeds, but I can't exactly test it because my clocks won't go above an x55 multiplier on 6 of the p-cores, and won't go above x56 on the favoured p-cores (even if intel doesn't mention this, I only see 2 of the cores actually pushing the rated 5.6GHz).
My powerlimits are pumped to the max by default, and I'll fiddle with voltage when I actually start seeing the turbo multipliers go above 55-56.
Here is TPL; note, I don't get PL2 warnings or anything like that. I tested this using cinebench 2024 multi core load, I hit like 305w.

I've tried different settings on my uefi bios, like "unleash" and "instant 6ghz" but neither seemed to work, so I presume some software is locking me out?
The weird thing is, if I do this in Gigabyte control centre, it works. Which makes me think it's interfering.

Edit: I just rebooted my PC without GCC, and now the favoured cores are overclocking... but not the other 6 P-cores. I'm just incredibly confused about this. I know all the cores can be overclocked using GCC, I tested it before, but I'd rather use Throttlestop for this.
Also here's my main window:

 

[P4-630]

Just OC from within the BIOS or use the Gigabyte App..

I only enable "Enhanced Multi-Core Performance" in the BIOS, this results in max boost on all P-cores @ 5Ghz. (i7 12700K)
No need to OC anything else imo..

 

[ir_cow]

Like won't go above 5.6 or it crashes at 5.6?

 

[unclewebb]

In the TPL window clear the Sync MMIO box and check the MMIO Lock box instead. This can sometimes remove the maximum multiplier limitation.

Usually the core C states need to be enabled in the BIOS for the intermediate turbo ratios to work correctly. You can use ThrottleStop to see if the C states are enabled when your computer is idle. With the C states disabled, it looks like you are limited to the Group 7 turbo ratio which is 55 and the two preferred cores get to use the 56 multiplier.

it'll force a single clock speed across all cores rather than be dynamic

That is what happens when the C states are disabled.

 

[VortexSupernova]

Like won't go above 5.6 or it crashes at 5.6?

All except my two favoured cores won't boost. Basically, only the specific 2 P-cores will take any multiplier, but every other core refuses to go higher than the x55 multiplier.

Just OC from within the BIOS or use the Gigabyte App..

I only enable "Enhanced Multi-Core Performance" in the BIOS, this results in max boost on all P-cores @ 5Ghz. (i7 12700K)
No need to OC anything else imo..

Bruv I've tried all the settings, including "instant 6ghz", which is utter bull, since it didn't do anything.

In the TPL window clear the Sync MMIO box and check the MMIO Lock box instead. This can sometimes remove the maximum multiplier limitation.

Usually the core C states need to be enabled in the BIOS for the intermediate turbo ratios to work correctly. You can use ThrottleStop to see if the C states are enabled when your computer is idle. With the C states disabled, it looks like you are limited to the Group 7 turbo ratio which is 55 and the two preferred cores get to use the 56 multiplier.


That is what happens when the C states are disabled.

is this telling me I'm f*cked? I thought C states were enabled by default.

 

[unclewebb]

BIOS default settings are unpredictable. Set the core C States to enabled in the BIOS. When idle, cores should be up to 99% in C7.

 

[VortexSupernova]

BIOS default settings are unpredictable. Set the core C States to enabled in the BIOS. When idle, cores should be up to 99% in C7.

Alright. Does the BIOS setting about acoustics affect this? Because my motherboard has some slight coil whine which I had to solve by changing the acoustics settings.

 

[unclewebb]

acoustics settings

I am not sure what that setting does. Was your computer idle when you took the screenshot above?
When Idle my C states window looks like this.

 

[VortexSupernova]

I am not sure what that setting does. Was your computer idle when you took the screenshot above?
When Idle my C states window looks like this.

View attachment 338409

Yeah it was idle.

 

[unclewebb]

If you have selected enabled in the BIOS for the core C states then it might be a Windows issue. This ThrottleStop feature has never been tested in Windows 11. If you are feeling lucky, check the C States - AC box, select the On radio button and press the Apply button. See if that increases the idle core C7%.

This ThrottleStop feature will make a permanent change to whatever Windows power plan you are presently using. If you want to go back to how things were, open the Windows Power Options, select the power plan you are using and press the Restore Plan Defaults button.

 

[InVasMani]

If you disable E cores or dropping E cores ratio's lower should be able to push more than 2P cores to x56 or possibly with really over adequate cooling. Given you've got a 420mm radiator you're cooling should be very good though especially if it's setup for push/pull fans that thing should dissipate a lot of heat rather quickly. I've run x56 multipliers on all 8 P cores with a 240mm push/pull by try dropping the fixed E core ratio's and/or disabling, but I think it's impractical to disable them personally over reducing the ratio's. Simply dropping E core ratio's or maybe disabling a cluster of only 4 of them freeing up power limit restrictions a lot and makes cooling expectations easier. Technically there is no guarantee you'll have any luck above x56 across 2 P cores, but I'd be shocked if most can't across at least some of the other P cores. I overclock thru the bios itself myself primarily.

 

[VortexSupernova]

I am not sure what that setting does. Was your computer idle when you took the screenshot above?
When Idle my C states window looks like this.

View attachment 338409

This is mine on idle.

If you have selected enabled in the BIOS for the core C states then it might be a Windows issue. This ThrottleStop feature has never been tested in Windows 11. If you are feeling lucky, check the C States - AC box, select the On radio button and press the Apply button. See if that increases the idle core C7%.

View attachment 338426

This ThrottleStop feature will make a permanent change to whatever Windows power plan you are presently using. If you want to go back to how things were, open the Windows Power Options, select the power plan you are using and press the Restore Plan Defaults button.

I tried this, but every time i press apply, the "C States - AC" tickbox unticks itself.

If you disable E cores or dropping E cores ratio's lower should be able to push more than 2P cores to x56 or possibly with really over adequate cooling. Given you've got a 420mm radiator you're cooling should be very good though especially if it's setup for push/pull fans that thing should dissipate a lot of heat rather quickly. I've run x56 multipliers on all 8 P cores with a 240mm push/pull by try dropping the fixed E core ratio's and/or disabling, but I think it's impractical to disable them personally over reducing the ratio's. Simply dropping E core ratio's or maybe disabling a cluster of only 4 of them freeing up power limit restrictions a lot and makes cooling expectations easier. Technically there is no guarantee you'll have any luck above x56 across 2 P cores, but I'd be shocked if most can't across at least some of the other P cores. I overclock thru the bios itself myself primarily.

At this point I'm pissed enough to go change the limits themselves in bios. I'm not power limited, my limits window is completely free :sob:


Edit: what should I enable in BIOS?

 

[InVasMani]

I don't have a Gigabyte board, but power limits are for PL1 PL2 duration. You should have a setting to lower E core ratio's and/or turn them off which either will help with power limits if they operate a bit slow and consume less or are turned off. It's a trade off though MT for ST and better native software cpu core assignment awareness.

 

[P4-630]

You could also try Intel XTU

Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility (Intel® XTU)

The Intel® Extreme Tuning Utility (Intel® XTU) is used to overclock, monitor, and stress a system. This application is supported with unlocked processors (K- and X-series) only. Refer to “This download is valid for the product(s) listed below” section for supported processors list. WARNING...

www.intel.com

 

[ir_cow]

I don't have a Gigabyte board, but power limits are for PL1 PL2 duration. You should have a setting to lower E core ratio's and/or turn them off which either will help with power limits if they operate a bit slow and consume less or are turned off. It's a trade off though MT for ST and better native software cpu core assignment awareness.

Turning off e-cores is a waste of this CPU. Might as well just buy AMD.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

My 14700K won't overclock. ..... And yes I have the headroom, at least when using under 8 performance cores (I can run 5.6ghz indefinitely below 92c)

What headroom? You can barely cool 5.6. Why do you want to overclock it? It is already overclocked from the factory.

 

[unclewebb]

This is mine on idle.

This shows your core C states are enabled and working correctly. The first and last cores in your screenshot must have something running on them keeping those cores busy. You can check the Task Manager. You might have some poorly written driver or program running on those two cores.

I tried this, but every time i press apply, the "C States - AC" tickbox unticks itself.

That is how that feature works. That is OK.

I'm pissed enough to go change the limits themselves in bios

That was the first thing you were supposed to do. What Auto does might randomly change depending on some other unrelated setting. In the BIOS, set the C6/C7 State Support to Enabled.

Check the MMIO Lock box in ThrottleStop.

Try running a Cinebench single thread test. While this test is running, see if ThrottleStop reports multipliers higher than 56 for any of the cores.

Why do you want to overclock it?

He is not trying to overclock. He is trying to get the higher turbo ratios working when the CPU is lightly loaded. This is a standard feature of most Intel CPUs.

 

[P4-630]

He is not trying to overclock. He is trying to get the higher turbo ratios working when the CPU is lightly loaded.

In that case:

Get into the BIOS and simply enable "Enhanced Multi-Core Performance" and all P-cores run at maximum turbo when needed.

 

[unclewebb]

and all P-cores run at maximum turbo when needed.

Why do that if that is not what he wants?

He only wants to run the 60 multiplier when 1 or 2 P cores are active and then he wants that to decrease as more P cores become active. At default settings that is how his CPU is supposed to work. Something is blocking that. Not having the core C states enabled is usually the problem. Most of his cores are using C7 now compared to his first screenshot so he might be close to getting the turbo multipliers working the way Intel intended them to work. I guess we will have to wait until he wakes up later today.

 

[VortexSupernova]

What headroom? You can barely cool 5.6. Why do you want to overclock it? It is already overclocked from the factory.

What don't you understand? I'm not pushing 5.6ghz on a full 28 thread load, I'm trying to get above 5.6ghz on smaller thread loads. It's not that hard to understand mate. My CPU simply won't attain those turbo ratios. I'm nowhere near throttling on smaller thread loads.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

UNINSTALL ANY IN SYSTEM OC PROGRAMS!!! OC just in BIOS alone.

You need to set the main profile to unleash.

Then you set the multiplier limits for the individual cores. Do not forget to set the overall limit with some extra margin. For example if you expect TWO certain cores to run at 6 GHz, you set the overall frequency limit so that you allow THREE cores to run at 6 GHz.

Your CPU may not be able to run at this frequency, or if it will appear it can do it, it can be straining itself too much and will degrade quickly.

If you want a good chip to play with, get a 14900KS.

 

[InVasMani]

Turning off e-cores is a waste of this CPU. Might as well just buy AMD.

Oversimplified, but agreed. From a rational standpoint most people looking at 8 Core performance should just buy a AMD 7800X3D. It doesn't always ring true, but buying a 14700K to disable E Cores isn't a great use of money and value for dollar. Once again just buy AMD X3D not to mention AVX-512 workloads. It's a narrow battlefield landscape of specific ST driven workloads where disabling E cores begins to make sense for performance specific reasons, but a handful do exist. Also disabling 4E cores basically makes the 14700K more akin to something like a 12900K/13700K/14600K CPU with more L3 cache and higher frequency P cores with fewer E cores than 14700K uses at stock and shares cache and power limit resources with and within a tangled OS scheduling environment mess. It's not bad for BIOS profile option.

My point was more with dropping some E core ratio's a bit lower to free up thermal and power limits of P cores to boost higher and to fine tune OS scheduling behavior a bit. If you disable some E cores the OS has less to schedule so more tasks will be assigned to the P cores if that's your intentions and don't need full MT capabilities of CPU itself for a given workload. P core ratio's should always be higher than E core ratio's though or they act a bit haywire.

 

[unclewebb]

@VortexSupernova
Did you open the Task Manager yet to find out what is running in the background on your computer? When you have so many tasks constantly running in the background, this can prevent the CPU from using the maximum turbo multipliers.

My computer has the cores averaging 99% of their time in C7 when sitting at the desktop. Your computer is only averaging 40%. Big difference. Eliminate any useless apps running in the background and you should start seeing higher CPU multipliers when lightly loaded. The first and last core sitting at 0.0 and 0.1 in C7 could be a poorly written driver issue.

Even if you never find any higher multipliers, your computer will run a lot smoother if you clean up the background sludge.

 

[VortexSupernova]

View attachment 338811

@VortexSupernova
Did you open the Task Manager yet to find out what is running in the background on your computer? When you have so many tasks constantly running in the background, this can prevent the CPU from using the maximum turbo multipliers.

My computer has the cores averaging 99% of their time in C7 when sitting at the desktop. Your computer is only averaging 40%. Big difference. Eliminate any useless apps running in the background and you should start seeing higher CPU multipliers when lightly loaded. The first and last core sitting at 0.0 and 0.1 in C7 could be a poorly written driver issue.

Even if you never find any higher multipliers, your computer will run a lot smoother if you clean up the background sludge.

Mine has several programs usually, I also have an antivirus. I've got discord, spotify, chrome, steam, AV, and other things running like razer synapse (I use macros from it) running in the background. I've eliminated some big offenders like WD Dashboard (holy shit, have you seen the CPU usage it requires when actively sampling in the background???)
Apart from that, I doubt I'll ever be able to minimise my background processes much