2700X vs 7700K, should I stay or should I go?

[Bones]

Not the running of the VM's was my concern but the bulk of the programs and tasks I would have running on the PC at the same time, I want everything to run smooth and not cause any freezes or make my PC unresponsive...but as you've said it might be more of a RAM and disk speed case

I believe this makes the case for the 2700, although the 7700K IS a good CPU it's multitasking performance just can't keep up with the 2700 in termps of sheer multi-tasking capability. I am running a 7700K here myself and while it is a good chip you're talking about a heavily loaded system with several tasks being ran all at once.

Speaking personally..... If I had this in mind for a build I'd also look at TR and if I were to go that way with it I'd go with the base chip (1900) to get these extra cores plus all the PCI-E express lanes (64) too for the cheapest cost possible. Single threaded performance is still good, clearly not on par with the 7700K for example but with the stated useage the OP would benefit from this investment for a few years at least before any need to upgrade would be required making the investment more viable over time.

The 2700 isn't a bad investment either and would be great too, I'm just thinking about potential longevity of the setup here.

With the 1900 not being too much more than the other chips named it's a cost vs benefit "Thing" and that would make the $$ go further. I know all the rest would have to be accounted for too such as a board and such BUT IF making a move to AMD from the 7700K setup that's kinda a mute point because you'd need to replace it all anyway to get it done regardless of which AMD chip you decide on.

That's how I'm seeing it but it's really up to the OP - It's your call and good luck however it goes.

 

[Vya Domus]

Depending on what you do with the VMs , having more cores is definitely desirable.

 

[RealNeil]

I might the one that Endorses 7 forever lol.

Yeah, that was me a few months ago. But I gave up finally.

And to the OP: Get the 2700X for the multitasking benefits, the newer platform, and the overall better performance. Just make sure that you have at least 32GB of RAM on it.
I have a pair of 7700Ks here in gaming boxes and they're pretty sweet, but when I encode movies, I use my Ryzen 1700X or my i9-7900X because cores = faster chores!

 

[Vayra86]

Not the running of the VM's was my concern but the bulk of the programs and tasks I would have running on the PC at the same time, I want everything to run smooth and not cause any freezes or make my PC unresponsive...but as you've said it might be more of a RAM and disk speed case

A good way to figure out if its the CPU holding you back and not other components (most notably RAM when it comes to 'stuttery' or brief unresponsive behavior) is to find a realtime application and monitor it while using the rig in various scenario's. If the realtime application stutters (or feels 'jerky' even though performance is ok), you will want to look at RAM and Storage in that order. If its performance is just lower than it should be or is preferable with the CPU pegged at high load, then you will want to look at the CPU.

Sorry to stray off topic, but I get perplexed by the naysayers of Windows 10.

Well.. as a Windows 10 user, there are times I want the 7 days back, most notably around a big update. Other than that its a big win.

 

[Mighty-Lu-Bu]

No im on 7 64bit, I might the one that Endorses 7 forever lol.

What is the reason why you are not upgrading to Windows 10? I understand that Windows 10 isn't everyone's cup of tea, but from a pure performance perspective, it is much better than Windows 7. Remember, Windows 7 is an operating system that is almost a decade old and since Microsoft is no longer supporting it, it makes the decision to upgrade to Windows 10 that much easier.

Sorry to stray off topic, but I get perplexed by the naysayers of Windows 10.

 

[eidairaman1]

What is the reason why you are not upgrading to Windows 10? I understand that Windows 10 isn't everyone's cup of tea, but from a pure performance perspective, it is much better than Windows 7. Remember, Windows 7 is an operating system that is almost a decade old and since Microsoft is no longer supporting it, it makes the decision to upgrade to Windows 10 that much easier.

Sorry to stray off topic, but I get perplexed by the naysayers of Windows 10.

Well its fine tuned for my needs, well oiled, dont have to worry about it updating on its own or forced into updates that break alot of drivers/programs.

 

[Mighty-Lu-Bu]

Well its fine tuned for my needs, well oiled, dont have to worry about it updating on its own or forced into updates that break alot of drivers/programs.

While I can understand that, you do realize that both newer Intel CPUs and AMD CPUs are not really Windows 7 compatible right? So if you want to upgrade to a Ryzen system you are going to have to settle for Windows 10.

 

[RealNeil]

both newer Intel CPUs and AMD CPUs are not really Windows 7 compatible

Hence, why I went to Win-10. I really loved Win-7, but I love new computers more.
I have Win-10 tweaked to my needs and preferences and the last big update caused a 10-minute non-use scenario in two of them. I can live with that.
All of my PCs have 32 or 64GB of RAM, and Win-10 seems to use it well.

 

[eidairaman1]

While I can understand that, you do realize that both newer Intel CPUs and AMD CPUs are not really Windows 7 compatible right? So if you want to upgrade to a Ryzen system you are going to have to settle for Windows 10.

Erm there are ways to bypass it too

 

[moproblems99]

I am in a similar boat as you in which I run a few a few vms at a time. I only have a 4770k, 16gb of ram, but my vms run on an SSD. I limit my vms to usually about 4gb and mostly only have two running but occassionally but three.

I have never experienced the issues you have described so I think an investment in an ssd would be more beneficial to you. BUT, if I had spare money lying around, I would accompany that new SSD with new 2700X, mobo, and 32gb of ram.

 

[Vario]

While I can understand that, you do realize that both newer Intel CPUs and AMD CPUs are not really Windows 7 compatible right? So if you want to upgrade to a Ryzen system you are going to have to settle for Windows 10.

I am on Win 7 and Coffee Lake, it is not a big deal, and I dislike WIndows 10 immensely. That is my preference just like eidairaman.

 

[RealNeil]

Erm there are ways to bypass it too

I tried that for a while but Microsoft kept throwing a wrench into the gears when I updated. It turned out to be a PITA re-configuring all of the time.
I've grown accustomed to Win-10 enough that I've updated all but one of my PCs to it. I'll probably do it in the next few weeks.

 

[Vario]

I tried that for a while but Microsoft kept throwing a wrench into the gears when I updated. It turned out to be a PITA re-configuring all of the time.
I've grown accustomed to Win-10 enough that I've updated all but one of my PCs to it. I'll probably do it in the next few weeks.

Was not a problem for me. I used WUFUC shown here https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc. When my board is set to PS/2 Emulation, Windows 7 installs from disk perfectly, then I set it back to default and run Windows Update until it stops updating due to the processor. Then I install the WUFUC and it begins updating again. No problems 4 months later still updating fine. It runs just like any other Windows 7 installation, there are no pesky issues at all.

 

[trparky]

Virtual machine disk images are usually very huge files equal to the size of the disk inside the VM. I myself have found out that if you put the VM disk images on an SSD performance of the VM is going to go straight into the stratosphere.

Often times the performance issue of a computer isn't due to the processor or RAM but the hard disk. Upgrading the system to include an SSD more often than not will breathe new life into a system unless of course the processor is like really ancient.

 

[eidairaman1]

I tried that for a while but Microsoft kept throwing a wrench into the gears when I updated. It turned out to be a PITA re-configuring all of the time.
I've grown accustomed to Win-10 enough that I've updated all but one of my PCs to it. I'll probably do it in the next few weeks.

If I ever move it would be to LTSB which takes out a lot of stuff I wont use anyway.

Was not a problem for me. I used WUFUC shown here https://github.com/zeffy/wufuc. When my board is set to PS/2 Emulation, Windows 7 installs from disk perfectly, then I set it back to default and run Windows Update until it stops updating due to the processor. Then I install the WUFUC and it begins updating again. No problems 4 months later still updating fine. It runs just like any other Windows 7 installation, there are no pesky issues at all.

Good To Know, I probably would of found the way to put it on.

TR2 3000 series is my time to upgrade

 

[Vario]

If I ever move it would be to LTSB which takes out a lot of stuff I wont use anyway.



Good To Know, I probably would of found the way to put it on.

TR2 3000 series is my time to upgrade

If you buy the AsRock board check if it has PS/2 Emulation mode in the bios, if it does you are good to go with 7. The other manufacturers do not allow Windows 7 install nearly as easily. Asus requires slip streaming the USB driverse for example, and a lot of people have issues with that. For me, PS/2 emulation allows install without losing your keyboard and mouse, then once you are into Windows you insert the driver disk and install the USB 3 drivers. After the drivers are installed, turn off PS/2 emulation. That is the first difficulty. The second difficulty is getting Windows to patch update without being processor invalid, and you use WUFUC to fix that. Pretty simple solution and it runs Windows 7 like it was meant to. Hopefully Thread Ripper 2 will be fixable same way. I tried Windows 10 and it felt slower, and more cumbersome. Everything required more steps to complete. Even re-arranging my start menu was a chore. I really disliked it and I also found the UI to be ugly compared to 7 Aero. I don't care if I can install some third party skin or mess around in Powershell for a few hours cleaning up 10, 7 does it all perfect.

 

[Mighty-Lu-Bu]

I am on Win 7 and Coffee Lake, it is not a big deal, and I dislike WIndows 10 immensely. That is my preference just like eidairaman.
View attachment 100219

Sorry, but I just don't understand the logic that people have by holding on to an outdated operating system that is nearing a decade old. Again, on a pure performance level, Windows 10 outperforms Windows 7. It is also a lot more secure and it is a lot more optimized than its predecessor.

If you don't like automatic updates, you can turn them off by disabling the Windows Update service or by applying a group policy. If you don't like the interface, you can use classic shell or Stardock's version of classic shell. The biggest complaints that I often hear about Windows 10 are automatic updates and the interface, but both can be fixed in less than 5 minutes. These are both very minor complaints, yet I guess for some people they are deal breakers which to me doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Bones]

I am on Win 7 and Coffee Lake, it is not a big deal, and I dislike WIndows 10 immensely. That is my preference just like eidairaman.

Me too - I HATE the spying Win 10 does, the forced updating, ect.... ect....

I'm glad I went linux instead of running Win 10 - And I also have Win 7 that can and does run great on my 7700K setup no prob.
I will never run Winspy 10 period, that's how much I hate it - I'd rather stay linux and be done with it.

 

[Mighty-Lu-Bu]

Me too - I HATE the spying Win 10 does, the forced updating, ect.... ect....

I'm glad I went linux instead of running Win 10 - And I also have Win 7 that can and does run great on my 7700K setup no prob.
I will never run Winspy 10 period, that's how much I hate it - I'd rather stay linux and be done with it.

Again, all things that can be turned off...

 

[eidairaman1]

Again, all things that can be turned off...

Just for them to be turned back on by updates or the creator editions...

 

[trparky]

Turn the telemetry to Basic Mode and you'll be fine. Basic Mode contains none of the most damning of the data that Full Mode contains. I myself have verified this.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

he doesnt Have to get rid of the win7 machine, buy new ,buy x470 with an ssd and storeMI you should see noticeable performance increases in the things that you do ,but on win 10 with everything switched off as i have, that too is easy and permanent these days afaik.
no need for compromise with both but id bet after getting used to win 10 the 7 machine would be on ebay after a bit.

I Was a 10 Hater.

 

[mcraygsx]

Just for them to be turned back on by updates or the creator editions...

That is not a fact for enterprise edition. Updates have never altered settings on my personnel PC running enterprise or workstation running 2016 Server Standard. Cannot speak for Professional or Home edition. But If you are worried about Telemetry there are more then few methods to turn it off permanently. But I have to agree Microsoft did not just hand out a Operating System to masses for no reason .

 

[RealNeil]

Taming Win-10 is really not such a problem anymore.
The same people who bring us Spybot Search And Destroy have put together a nice little tool that shuts down all of the windows 10 crap.

Spybot Anti-Beacon It works.

 

[Bones]

Again, all things that can be turned off...

OK - Tell that to the guys I know that tried that already.... And it came right back.... Repeatedly - Even to the point of doing an update that caused all kinds of headaches with updates they already knew were trouble so they disabled auto-updating to try and prevent it but it happened anyway.

MS has these things setup to auto-activate/turn on by default taking control away from the user like for example having Cortana - You try to get rid of it and it just comes right back again.
If you know a 100% guaranteed way to turn it off and for it to stay off period without it coming back (Esp after doing an update manually) we'd like to hear about it.

Until then it's Linux or Win 7 here.

I will be checking out the above to see if it works - Thanks Realneil.