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3600X and RTX 2070 Super build

GrimLobster

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Just after some opinions on this build.
PC used only for gaming, not planning to do any manual overclocking at this stage.
Apologies if some questions have been asked before, still in process of researching.

Budget around $1300-$1400 USD.

Monitor: Acer Predator XB271HU 27" 1440p
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X
Motherboard: MSI B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2x8) 3200MHz CL 16 ?
Storage: Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe SSD 500GB ?
Video Card:
Gigabyte GeForce RTX 2070 Super Gaming 8G OC Graphics Card

Reusing from 2015 PC -
Case: Corsair ATX Carbide 400R Case Black
Power Supply: 650 Watt Coolermaster V650 80+ Gold Semi-Modular

?
This RAM has timings: 16-18-18-36. Wondering whether it's worth it to get 3200MHz CL 14 RAM for this build, for 1440p gaming?
Located in Australia and the price difference between 3200MHz CL 16 and CL 14 RAM is at least $100 AUD, around $68 USD.
Also have seen some people saying the Vengeance LPX RAM is somewhat old and having issues with this CPU?

?
Is it worth it at all to purchase PCle 4 model with this CPU?

Thanks a lot for your time.
 
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brucechow

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I dont own that ram, but I made the leap from 3200 CL16 to CL14 just because ram prices here are getting low; and unless you love benchmarks you wont notice any difference...
I think most reviewers agreed that PCIe4 is not worth atm, not sure about future though
 
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A lot of people are having problems with Corsair RAM and Ryzen builds, for whatever reason, so it might be wise to consider some other brand.
 

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A lot of people are having problems with Corsair RAM and Ryzen builds, for whatever reason, so it might be wise to consider some other brand.
There were troubles with Vengeance Ram on the Sabertooth 990FX R2.0 then too, I did the research and it is why I use GSKill and avoid Corsair altogether, they cater to intel more (bribery suspected).
 

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The reason Corsair flounders is due to revisions. Typically Corsair has great ICs in the first couple of revisions, then move to poop ICs as inventory runs out. Most other makers stick with the same ICs throughout the series life, then EOLs said kits when they run out of chips.

I do believe G.Skill has the buying power lead still, which usually means they have first dibs on what to buy, and how many.
 
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Typically Corsair has great ICs in the first couple of revisions, then move to poop ICs as inventory runs out
They do it like Kingston does it since ages too... didn't know... :shadedshu:
 
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Regarding the Corsair and Ryzen issue, I would take a closer look at the IC and what brand is the chip used. (Samsung, Hynix, Micron for example)
It's not always easy to find the information, but it's true that there are always many revisions of RAM kit's from Corsair and it can be an issue because you never know which revision you might end up getting.
 
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I'd steer well clear of Corsair for Ryzen.

I'd go with G.Skill, they seem to be the only mem vendor that consistently has quality DRAM under the heatspreaders. As for 3200 C14 vs C16, C14 used to indicate B-die most of the time, so it's definitely better. However, for example with the G.Skill Trident Z C16 kit I have, it uses Samsung D/E-die which, from what I can tell, isn't B-die levels of amazing but really isn't bad either. C14 is where you want to be for 3200 timings, though. Not going to make a huge difference, as 3200 C16 is pretty near the top already.

I don't know what the situation is like with MSI, but essentially, the deal with Ryzen 3000 and B450/X470 is wholly dependent on whether the vendor can write good BIOSes and update the BIOSes on time. Your board won't be a MAX, so it will likely require a BIOS update. Depending on the board, there may be a hard barrier at one of the BIOS versions to BIOS updates in the form of a requisite Ryzen chipset driver version before you can go any further down the line of BIOS versions, meaning you'll need an older CPU for the process.

Other possible drawback are the little things, like a longer POST time when using Ryzen 3000 on an older board.

X570 shouldn't have any of these potential BIOS, boot or RAM issues.
 
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I have more or less the same build you are trying to get. Zero problem here with the 3600C16 with the B450 Carbon AC board, even though they are harder to run double sized 16 x 2 GB modules.
 
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Apart from the RAM that looks like a fine setup you got there. I wouldn't think twice really - apart from swapping that GPU over to an MSI Gaming X Trio - though you might as well jump to 2080 then. Gigabyte holds that low price for a good reason; RMA process/service is unreliable and quality of board/fans tends to be on the low side.

Inno3D also has a pretty decent 2070S, Strix OC is also good.
 
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GrimLobster

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Thanks a lot for the input, especially regarding RAM. Ended up buying G.Skill Flare X 3200MHz CL 14 (B-Die).
Trident Z Neo RAM was designed for Ryzen 3000 series, but buying here meant paying significantly more.

Was going to buy the Gaming Pro Carbon AC - they emailed saying it has sticker 'Ryzen 3000 desktop ready'. But yes the reasonably priced MAX Tomahawk board would be ideal of course to alleviate BIOS issues. X570 boards significantly more expensive here, but keeping them in mind.

I emailed MSI asking what the long-term benefit would be of MAX compared with regular B450 boards for 3000 series, regarding BIOS updates. No reply as of yet.

Very simplified -
MSI 450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC - Best audio, network adapter included, may have ongoing BIOS issues with 3600X
MSI 450 Tomohawk MAX - Not as good audio, around $20 USD cheaper than Gaming Pro but less or no BIOS issues with 3600X
X570 board - Around $70 USD and upwards more expensive than Gaming Pro, depending on model, but less or no BIOS issues with 3600X

Anyone had experience with MAX boards and which board would you hypothetically buy in this situation?
 
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Good choice on the B-die. I wanted a 3200 C14 kit, but didn't have the time to wait.

The MAX boards just mean that right now, you don't have to worry about BIOS updates; open the box and go to town. It means nothing for MSI's commitments down the line.

Knowing now how 3000 can behave on boot with 400 series chipset boards, I would just get the X570s.
 
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Very simplified -
MSI 450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC - Best audio, network adapter included, may have ongoing BIOS issues with 3600X
MSI 450 Tomohawk MAX - Not as good audio, around $20 USD cheaper than Gaming Pro but less or no BIOS issues with 3600X
X570 board - Around $70 USD and upwards more expensive than Gaming Pro, depending on model, but less or no BIOS issues with 3600X

Anyone had experience with MAX boards and which board would you hypothetically buy in this situation?
I'll give you a bit of an update:
- B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC - EOL, no longer manufactured (according to local MSI reps), stock is low everywhere, prices are inflated, won't get the MAX treatment. MSI simply knew it would be too good of an alternative to their entry level X570 boards and decided to drop it
- B450 Tomahawk MAX - limited availability, some stores have it, others say they should have, others flat out say "Early September". Same thing with Mortar MAX. Gaming Plus MAX is available, but has downgraded VRM radiator in comparison to Mortar/Tomahawk.
- X570 board - cheapest one is almost double the cost of B450, entry level boards often come with even more limited features. X570 Aorus Elite has good VRM, but doesn't even come with debug LEDs, just plain old PC speaker, and that's at double the cost of B450 Mortar which somehow manages to include debug LEDs.

I'm waiting for my B450 Mortar Titanium to arrive today, if anything misbehaves I'll return it within the 14-day window and decide whether to step up to X570.
 

GrimLobster

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I'll give you a bit of an update:
- B450 Gaming Pro Carbon AC - EOL, no longer manufactured (according to local MSI reps), stock is low everywhere, prices are inflated, won't get the MAX treatment. MSI simply knew it would be too good of an alternative to their entry level X570 boards and decided to drop it
- B450 Tomahawk MAX - limited availability, some stores have it, others say they should have, others flat out say "Early September". Same thing with Mortar MAX. Gaming Plus MAX is available, but has downgraded VRM radiator in comparison to Mortar/Tomahawk.
- X570 board - cheapest one is almost double the cost of B450, entry level boards often come with even more limited features. X570 Aorus Elite has good VRM, but doesn't even come with debug LEDs, just plain old PC speaker, and that's at double the cost of B450 Mortar which somehow manages to include debug LEDs.

I'm waiting for my B450 Mortar Titanium to arrive today, if anything misbehaves I'll return it within the 14-day window and decide whether to step up to X570.
Thanks for the info. Wow what a mess.

Let me know how things go with your board.
 

bug

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@GrimLobster No need to get the 3600X, the 3600 seems to perform the same and is $50 less.
 

las

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Good choice on the B-die. I wanted a 3200 C14 kit, but didn't have the time to wait.

The MAX boards just mean that right now, you don't have to worry about BIOS updates; open the box and go to town. It means nothing for MSI's commitments down the line.

Knowing now how 3000 can behave on boot with 400 series chipset boards, I would just get the X570s.
Getting X570 for 3600/3600X ruins the whole value proposition and he will be far better off going with Z390 + 9700K especially considering he will use it for gaming only, high fps / high refresh rate gaming that is. Intel has superior performance here, no doubt about that.

B450 + 3600 is good value, but it will be nowhere near Z390 + 9700K in CPU bound / high fps gaming. Even X570 + 3900X loses.

So, forget about X570 for Ryzen 5. Expensive board + cheap CPU simply does not make sense.
 

bug

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Getting X570 for 3600/3600X ruins the whole value proposition and he will be far better off going with Z390 + 9700K especially considering he will use it for gaming only, high fps / high refresh rate gaming that is. Intel has superior performance here, no doubt about that.

B450 + 3600 is good value, but it will be nowhere near Z390 + 9700K in CPU bound / high fps gaming. Even X570 + 3900X loses.

So, forget about X570 for Ryzen 5. Expensive board + cheap CPU simply does not make sense.
Luckily, somebody tested just that: https://www.techspot.com/review/1897-ryzen-5-ryzen-9-core-i9-gaming-scaling/
Doesn't mention the motherboards used, which is weird, but that 3600 can't be beat in perf/$.
 
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bug

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They used MSI X570 Creation in their first 3600 test, so that alone will ruin the perf/$
Why would it? A B350 will perform the same in games.
 
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bug

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So is the space shuttle, but you don't need that either ;)
I go for overkill any day. I made a mistake in assumning that the review refereed to included a perf/$. Now you made me read it and I see that it didn't. I give a s**t in gaming so I pass that kind of reviews but I read the first they did on the CPU and knew that they had that MB.
 

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Luckily, somebody tested just that: https://www.techspot.com/review/1897-ryzen-5-ryzen-9-core-i9-gaming-scaling/
Doesn't mention the motherboards used, which is weird, but that 3600 can't be beat in perf/$.
Yep and you can easily see the 3600 is behind - They are even testing at Ultra preset. Tons of high fps 144-240 Hz gamers uses custom presets that are even more CPU dependant. 100 fps is BARE MINIMUM for many. Me included. I don't accept less than 100 fps/Hz at 1440p/165Hz/Gsync.

OP uses 1440p/165 Hz too.

Simply stating facts. 9700K beats 3600, 3600X, 3700X, 3800X and 3900X any day for high fps gaming. The end.

But as I said, 3600 is good value - If you don't choose a X570 board, that is.
I would never pair a cheap CPU with an expensive board. Complete waste of money.
 

bug

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Yep and you can easily see the 3600 is behind - They are even testing at Ultra preset.
If you want to spend the difference for an extra 10-20fps, yes. But you still can't beat 3600's perf/$.
Tons of high fps 144-240 Hz gamers uses custom presets that are even more CPU dependant. 100 fps is BARE MINIMUM for many. Me included. I don't accept less than 100 fps/Hz at 1440p/165Hz/Gsync.

OP uses 1440p/165 Hz too.

Simply stating facts. 9700K beats 3600, 3600X, 3700X, 3800X and 3900X any day for high fps gaming. The end.

But as I said, 3600 is good value - If you don't choose a X570 board, that is.
I would never pair a cheap CPU with an expensive board. Complete waste of money.
Unless you're a pro-gamer, I'm going to call bs on that.
 
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Cooling BeQuiet Dark Rock 4
Memory 2x8 GB Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 3200 CL16 @ 3466 CL 14
Video Card(s) EVGA 1060 6GB SSC
Storage SX8200 Pro 1 TB, Plextor M6Pro 256 GB, WD Blue 2TB
Display(s) BenQ BL2411PT
Case SilverStone Primera PM01 RGB
Power Supply SeaSonic Focus Plus Gold 750W
Mouse SteelSeries Rival 300
Keyboard Generic Dell
Can we get back on topic? This isn't about Intel vs AMD for gaming. OP is getting 3600X so no point in arguing between each other over "gaming superiority".
 
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