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3930k to 3770k ?

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#76
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#77
Gigabyte boards you should avoid. I've heard good things about the AsRock X79 Fatal1ty Professional (especially for OCing as it has a good VRM) or the ASUS P9X79 Deluxe (though some do have stability problems...). ofc the best OCing mobos are the Extreme11 or Fatal1ty Champion, but they are expensive

I personally have the standard P9X79 and I've had no problems with it.

If you aren't going to OC too much there are a few boards who offer great features like the Gigabyte X79S-UP5 which is cheap and is basically including a RAID card

I'd also avoid EVGA.... basically stick with ASUS or AsRock

One thing the Gigabyte is EXXTREMELY weak at is OCing large amounts of RAM, especially 8 DIMMs

EDIT: Sabertooth is getting good review support as well
Edit: I was going off with Z77 boards.......Gigabyte has a recall on the X79 boards.. The other boards rock from Gigabyte. I need to read the threads better. LOL
 
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#78

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#79
Unless he cares about power consumption etc, keep the 3930K, seriously
yep I agree, Not even close to being worth the hassel going from 3930k to the 3770k. Better off waiting for Ivy Bridge E if you really are itching to upgrade.
 
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#80
Ivybridge gets low 30's on the latency..... BTW.

You make some good points. All 3 (3930K, 3820 and 3770K) are great for gaming. In synthetics you will see a disparity in score. I own both a 3930K and 3770K and they perform pretty much equal in gaming. Kudos to the guy who finally said no PCIe 3.0. For gaming, the 3770K is the best choice. Socket 2011 motherboards are more expensive and so are the processors. gaming is a no brainer. Raw CPU horsepower goes to the 3930K. I am with he should not change. He will not be able to overclock Ivy higher than the 3930K due to the heat which was mentioned.

Ivy-E chips will most likely start out at $600. Ivy saw about a 5% increase over Sandy on average and Ivy-E will most likely be the same.
my 7970 seems to be running in pci-e 3.0 mode
 

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#81
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#82
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#83
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#84
LOL @ quad channel ram and its relative uselessness... Big pipe but nothing to fill it!
 

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#85
LOL @ quad channel ram and its relative uselessness... Big pipe but nothing to fill it!
Speed aside, it does let you run twice as much memory as skt1155. Lets see you load your IVB rig up with 64Gb of memory. It also lets you run more, less dense, higher speed memory.
 

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#86
IVB for 2011 is in tow, just wait then. Moving to skt 1155 is a downgrade especially when skt 1150 is slated to replace it already
 
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#87
LOL @ quad channel ram and its relative uselessness... Big pipe but nothing to fill it!
Sure it doesn't change the speed but it let's you have 8 DIMMs
 
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#88

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#89
Keep the Skt 2011 machine- no sense in downgrading.
 
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#90
Sure it doesn't change the speed but it let's you have 8 DIMMs
If you need more than 32GB of ram, go for it... :rockout:

Speed aside, it does let you run twice as much memory as skt1155. Lets see you load your IVB rig up with 64Gb of memory. It also lets you run more, less dense, higher speed memory.
Correct me if I'm wrong but most IB IMC will roll most SB-e IMCs given the same DIMMs.

How many people actually NEED more than 32GB? 16GB? I would be comfortable saying 95% of people even here or other enthusiast based sites, wont need more than 32GB and are likely fine at 16GB or even 8GB for as long as that platform would be useful (couple more years before most may want to upgrade).

I wonder if SBe can do this: http://www.overclockers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/trix2400-32g-sp32m-2550_11-13-13-35-1.70v.jpg
(serious question)
 
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#91
...........
 

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Aquinus

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#92
Correct me if I'm wrong but most IB IMC will roll most SB-e IMCs given the same DIMMs.
It depends on the SB-E chip, but in general, yeah, this is true. You know what is also true? How memory speeds barely impacts performance in CPU benchmarks let alone in the real world. People who need more memory will get more memory. You're also going to put more strain with 4-dimms on a IVB chip than on a SB-E chip, so that extra stress might make IVB memory clocks look a lot more like SB-E's, which still has 4 channels instead of just 2.

The problem with the logic here is that quad-channel doesn't help single-threaded tasks and faster memory speeds barely do anything to make the CPU itself go faster (over DDR3-1600,) so all in all you will only see the benefit when you start using multiple cores, which is where quad-channel memory shines.

Either way, I don't think the memory configuration will make a huge difference in performance but the places you do notice it is when you start stressing out all of the CPU cores at once on a memory intensive task.

One of the things I like the most about SB-E is being able to control the BCLK to hit just about any memory frequency I want. I'm not just stuck with the memory dividers at the stock 100mhz bclk so it gives me some granularity when it comes to what settings I have access to to overclock.

Is SB-E better. Not for the average user, no. For people who want it, it sure is and for all those people who invested in SB-E, we still have IVB-E lined up and I'm willing to bet that IVB-E will be plenty fast in comparison to IVB. Hell, even SB-E is pretty fast in comparison to IVB, but you also have to keep in mind that IVB came out after SB, it's on a different process, and quite frankly it's on a different platform too. Remember that SB-E has 856 more contacts than skt1155, not because it is cool, but because it needs more power, more grounds, and it has more PCI-E lanes and more memory channels.

Is it all necessary? No, not all of it.

Is it pretty awesome and fun to play with? I certainly think so.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you don't like SB-E. Give IVB a try, just don't expect light and day differences and think long and hard before you make the change because if you sell off your X79 rig, there will be no going back unless you want to waste more money than you already have at this point.

I don't think there is any reason to ditch X79. It works well and it's a worthy platform. Also for gamers, I think we will see games using more and more threaded resources and CPUs like an Intel 6 core might actually help.

Just out of curiosity, try turning off HT on your 3930k and see where it gets you. I know that my 3820 is a little faster on 4 cores when I disable HT as opposed to 4 cores with HT enabled.

I would be comfortable saying 95% of people even here or other enthusiast based sites, wont need more than 32GB and are likely fine at 16GB or even 8GB for as long as that platform would be useful (couple more years before most may want to upgrade).
When I boot up my VMs and start developing I've seen my peak usage hit 14Gb. I can think of things that would put me over that, but I try to not be too unreasonable with how much I have open at once.
 
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#93
It depends on the SB-E chip, but in general, yeah, this is true. You know what is also true? How memory speeds barely impacts performance in CPU benchmarks let alone in the real world. People who need more memory will get more memory. You're also going to put more strain with 4-dimms on a IVB chip than on a SB-E chip, so that extra stress might make IVB memory clocks look a lot more like SB-E's, which still has 4 channels instead of just 2.
Well, I just posted 2500+MHz out of a fully populated IB.. no idea if those sticks will do more with two DIMMs. I have to imagine so, but by how much, no idea.

NOt sure I agree CPU benchmarks, because several show notable gains... Hwbot ones like SP32M, even help in Wprime a bit... 3D11, and vantage/06, PCMarks. Synthetic to be sure though. Nnot sure about Cinebench or POV ray or anything like that. With DDR3 memory speeds on IB, its tough to make a positive point about the NEED for quad channel ram when dual is wholly capable.

....so all in all you will only see the benefit when you start using multiple cores, which is where quad-channel memory shines.
Got any links to benchmarks showing this performance scaling with multiple cores? I emplore you to test with a hex, and go down to dual channel and check out the differences (wont be much in a lot of tests). Its been tested before, I want to say by Tom's?

One of the things I like the most about SB-E is being able to control the BCLK to hit just about any memory frequency I want. I'm not just stuck with the memory dividers at the stock 100mhz bclk so it gives me some granularity when it comes to what settings I have access to to overclock.
Agree.

When I boot up my VMs and start developing I've seen my peak usage hit 14Gb. I can think of things that would put me over that, but I try to not be too unreasonable with how much I have open at once.
I bet I can count on my hands and feet the number of people running VM's at this place...point is, even with that you cant hit 16GB, so my point remains.
 

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#94
I bet I can count on my hands and feet the number of people running VM's at this place...point is, even with that you cant hit 16GB, so my point remains.
Not with a single VM, I run multiple. I do web development so I tend to have several browser windows with 20-30 tabs each (and I usually run 2 windows.) Pop open some music and a game if I'm taking a break and I'm hitting 14Gb. Will I hit more? Not right now. Am I going to eventually need more, without a doubt.

Got any links to benchmarks showing this performance scaling with multiple cores? I emplore you to test with a hex, and go down to dual channel and check out the differences (wont be much in a lot of tests). Its been tested before, I want to say by Tom's?
If only I had a 6-core to test on. :(
I remember seeing some benchmarks that showed minimal gain, but I saw the same thing with IVB running at higher memory speeds. I don't have links on the top of my head, I would have to hunt around for those.

Well, I just posted 2500 MHz out of a fully populated IB.. no idea if those sticks will do more with two DIMMs. I have to imagine so, but by how much, no idea.
That's pretty sexy, I can't say a whole lot against that.

But even with your fast memory and IVB chip...


Sure can! Pi demands, SB-E delivers. Granted at 150mhz faster, but I had to overcome the IPC improvement going from 32nm to 22nm, but it is just as good damn it!

pi-4850.PNG
 
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#95
Sir... I meant the memory speed, not the time to crunch Pi. I'm sure it was done, its not impossible to be sure, but a lot of IBs have a better IMC than SBe for sure.

I remember seeing some benchmarks that showed minimal gain, but I saw the same thing with IVB running at higher memory speeds. I don't have links on the top of my head, I would have to hunt around for those.
Its actually quite common to drop down to dual or single channel in certain benchmarks at Hwbot as it doesnt matter... again just talking channels here and lack of performance gains over dual in the vast majority of things.

RE: finding the benchmarks... take your time.. I'm not going anywhere. Im curious to see if more cores help. I see the logic, but just not convinced that its needed. Thanks in advance for looking.




Anyway, sorry to start this tangent... was just meant to make a light joke about quad channel ram, not get into a discussion on its (de)merits. :)

EDIT: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-3930k-3820-test-benchmark,3090-4.html

The review above, in those benchmarks, show little negligible differences between two quad cores (2600k and 3820) with quad ch vs dual.
 
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#96
Sir... I meant the memory speed.
I wouldn't know, my memory doesn't like to clock that high, but I've hit as high as 2450mhz at 11-12-11-36-1T but the CPU won't clock as high. My SuperPi time is almost exactly the same as your regardless of memory speed, so why does it matter if the performance of our two overclocks is practically exactly the same?

I look at it and it tells me that SB-E is just as capable as IVB. Hence the reason to not "upgrade" from SB-E to IVB when IVB-E will most likely be faster than IVB like how SB-E was faster than SB.
 
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#97
tbh the 2nd biggest reason I went with lga 2011 is the extra fun in overclocking, biggest reason being the upgrade path and possibility of 6 core

I think I'm going to go 3930K + AsRock Fatal1ty Pro as I just used my 3820 and P9X79 for a build at work :) doing it only because work is paying for my upgrade lol
 
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#98
I wouldn't know, my memory doesn't like to clock that high, but I've hit as high as 2450mhz at 11-12-11-36-1T but the CPU won't clock as high. My SuperPi time is almost exactly the same as your regardless of memory speed, so why does it matter if the performance of our two overclocks is practically exactly the same?

I look at it and it tells me that SB-E is just as capable as IVB. Hence the reason to not "upgrade" from SB-E to IVB when IVB-E will most likely be faster than IVB like how SB-E was faster than SB.
SBe's capability was NEVER in question... it was the the lack of improvement quad channel over dual that was my point the entire time...my apologies if that was unclear. :)

The SBe platform is HUGE for those that need more than 4 physical cores, there is no denying that. My sole talking point this entire time was with quad channel and its uselessness over dual. :D

biggest reason being the upgrade path and possibility of 6 core
This is a great point, though Im not entirely sure you want to do the math on that vs say SB/IB platform vs 3820 X79 upgrade in two years to IBe for another $500 to get hex when the quad haswell or bardwell (w/e comes out after) will likely match performance of the IBe hex with only four cores. For example, look what SB+HT does against the mighty 980x. Next gen chip tends to be close in a lot of tests (outside of apps that can use more than 4 physical cores). My personal opinion is if you go to this platform, go hex or go SB/IB... dont just stick the tip in on X79. X79 + 3820 = myopic if you look at actual $ and performance for the lifecycle (all depends on what you buy and how long you keep the platform of course). :D

Cheers guys, have a good night! :toast: :)
 
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#99
It's true that quad channel, apart from bandwidth benchmarks isn't much of an advantage. still fun to have :p RAMDisks faster than ever
 

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The review above, in those benchmarks, show little negligible differences between two quad cores (2600k and 3820) with quad ch vs dual.
The 3820 also has 2Mb more L3 cache, so it does better than the 2600k despite running 100mhz slower. Yeah, the 3820 isn't as fast as the 3770k (it gets very close,) but I'm willing to bet you that IVB-E will spank it.
tbh the 2nd biggest reason I went with lga 2011 is the extra fun in overclocking, biggest reason being the upgrade path and possibility of 6 core
+1: I love overclocking this chip, it's too much fun. I also got it with IVB-E in mind down the road, but I doubt I will need the resources of a 6-core CPU, unless multi-threading becomes a priority with the code I write, but more often than not, quad-core does just fine. Not to say I don't run anything that couldn't use 6 cores, it just isn't very often.

I wasn't able to find much with the 3820 having a little more power. All in all, games show little difference but it appears that the 3820 handles ALU ops a little better, not so much with the FPU though (not to say that it is slow, but it does trail the 3770k.) 3DMark 2011 is another where SB-E does fairly well.

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In general, you're right, most favors the 3770k, but not by huge numbers. They're close numbers, closer than a regular SB chip would be.

I seriously feel when push comes to shove, the difference between the two will be marginal when everything is considered.