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About 10 y/o hardware, rebuilt process

I have one. 800GB MLC based Intrepid model.

EDIT: And it still performs well!View attachment 369272
88% life after nearly 7years of good service? Great value for money IMHO.
Note: It's connected to my system via USB3-SATA adapter, so the performance is a bit lower than optimal due to adapter overhead.
I had an OCZ Petrol that refused to work on anything but my 1368DX laptop. It would disconnect in operation in my Z97 Gigabyte board without a blip or anything til I tried to open something. Was a weird drive.
 
SATA and M.2 NVMe prices are so similar so I can't even make an excuse for NOT getting a M.2 one. Maybe few Euros in difference (at least here), not worth getting a SATA one because of that.
 
The attractive part of M.2 isn't so much the price but the setup simplicity.
Sata uses separate inputs for data and power, which means cable clutter.
M.2 provides both directly at the install site and often gets a heatsink cover.
Price to performance is an afterthought since the drives are cheap but there are issues.
You are once again juggling I/O for use of that M.2 slot. Sata ports 4/5 get shut off.
I don't see a list for PCI-E lane count or how much is pinned but I would make it count.

If you are trying to minimize M.2 lanes to distribute to other components (why?) I guess Optane is the only option and these choices are miserable.

1730162351574.png
 
The attractive part of M.2 isn't so much the price but the setup simplicity.
Sata uses separate inputs for data and power, which means cable clutter.
M.2 provides both directly at the install site and often gets a heatsink cover.
Price to performance is an afterthought since the drives are cheap but there are issues.
You are once again juggling I/O for use of that M.2 slot. Sata ports 4/5 get shut off.
I don't see a list for PCI-E lane count or how much is pinned but I would make it count.

If you are trying to minimize M.2 lanes to distribute to other components (why?) I guess Optane is the only option and these choices are miserable.

View attachment 369284
Sata cables are not IDE/PATA cables
 
I have one. 800GB MLC based Intrepid model.

EDIT: And it still performs well!

88% life after nearly 7years of good service? Great value for money IMHO.
A little more than 7 years actually. Yeah, you definitely got your money's worth.

I never understood the fuss over OCZ but it seemed some did not like them being bought out by Toshiba. I had a couple of their PSUs that never gave me problems either.
 
A little more than 7 years actually. Yeah, you definitely got your money's worth.

I never understood the fuss over OCZ but it seemed some did not like them being bought out by Toshiba. I had a couple of their PSUs that never gave me problems either.
It's currently serving duties in a spare Dell laptop, so it's not getting the same amount of use it once did as one of my main OS drives. It was was paired with it's twin in a hardware RAID0 for a long time and that array saturated it's SATA connection. Very snappy performance.
 
So, SSD buyed, the Crucial P3, 500 Go for 35€.
And even a little Artic fan 12 cm, for the back of the case.
Waiting for the delivery (the 5 Nov.)

More news next week !
 
More news next week !
Yeah, please do keep us posted.

Since we are waiting for time to catch up to the OP's delivery date,
It's currently serving duties in a spare Dell laptop
Curious - did it replace a hard drive and if so, besides weight and performance, did you notice if it improved battery runtime too? And if you did noticed improved runtime, how much RAM is installed in that laptop?

Background to the question:

We've migrated several laptops from hard drives to SSDs over the years. I personally have never seen any significant improvement in battery runtimes when replacing a HD with a SSD, except in a couple entry level laptops that only had 4GB of RAM installed.

My educated guess (okay, suspicion... err... WAG) for the improved runtimes after migrating to SSDs were due to the small amount of RAM forcing the OS and CPU to access the PF significantly more often than in laptops that had 8 and 16GB of RAM. The theory being an SSD's better efficiency than hard drives demanded less from the battery.

SSD's superior disk access speeds can definitely improve disk performance. But our clients with 8 and 16GB of RAM were reporting noticeably longer battery runtimes in those systems too - where I didn't. So I am not sure if that was wishful thinking (placebo effect) on their part, or if reality.

Those clients are not computer people. You are. So, did you notice improved battery runtimes?

I realize any answer you give is anecdotal given it is one laptop, but still curious your findings just the same.
 
Overall, this thread was about whether if the OP can use an NVMe drive or not. They can.
This is important and should be followed. There's no reason trying to make the OP change his mind, as there are loads of M.2 drive models that have a low price and doesn't run hot, especially not given what it will be used for.
Sorry if SL2 believes my comment was "over the top" and too harsh, or if I hurt Toothless' feelings. I have to agree with Lex, however. If you think THAT was harsh, not sure where you've been. Compared to so many other very harsh personal attacks I have seen levied at (and by) various folks on this site, that was mild. That said, I appreciate you saying you have seen worse.
I just don't understand where all the emotions come from, when trying to give advice about a $15 drive, saying things like "Obsessive, close-minded, biased, dogged persistence resulting in tunnel vision that makes no sense!".

It's not that I can't stand it, or am unable to ignore it. I just don't get the point of reacting like someone killed your dog, when they just have a differnt opinion.
What I think is "over the top" is misinformation in technical replies - like suggesting repeatedly SATA's are not a viable option for the OP. How does that help the OP and other readers looking for advice in updating a 10 year old computer?
@Toothless never suggested it wasn't a viable option, he just mentioned pro's of using NVME.

The OP asked for NVME advice and his backup plan was SATA. Let them have their opinion, especially when neither option is wrong, that's how forums works. Well outside brand bashing of course but we're not doing that here.

How, @SL2, is adding two posts with the sole intent of criticizing another and to invite further criticism - without providing any help or advice for the OP
Nothing wrong with telling people to chill out, dunno what kind of world you were brought up in.

I confess, I tried deliberately to write as least of an offensive reply as possible, timid if you will, to the point that even others reacted lol, and still I didn't get through to you. In the end it's just criticism, so lets attack the attacker.

Honestly, if someone would reply to you the way you sometimes do to others you'd get so mad, but I bet you don't see that.

If you think I'm unfair, well it's not personal as I'd call out anyone reacting like that, but I very rarely do.

It's possible to spin this like I'm hurt or got scared, but this isn't about me. Have a good day.
 
did you notice if it improved battery runtime too?
I can tell you it's about a whole watt savings on this bad boy, SSDs definitely do improve idle battery life. However, with higher bandwidth, CPU and RAM run faster since you're not that heavily bottlenecked by your storage so it becomes equalised if not worsened in active usage scenarios.
 
I can tell you it's about a whole watt savings on this bad boy, SSDs definitely do improve idle battery life.
To clarify, I am not talking about battery "life" - as in how long until you have to replace the battery due to it no longer taking a charge. I am specifically referring to "runtime", as in how long will it provide power between charge and discharge.

So, assuming we are on the same page there, I agree but (depending on the specific HD and specific SSD), as you say, its like "a whole watt". So sure, "technically", even a single watt savings will "technically" improve runtime. But considering the CPU, GPU, screen (power hogs) as well as the RAM, mouse/pointer, USB devices and even the keyboard are all consuming power too, not sure "a whole watt" will make a "noticeable" - and whether or not Lex "noticed" any improvement is what I was asking about.

Complicating matters, of course, is power usage; specifically, the consistency of the demand on the battery. This would be easy to measure in a flashlight, for example, if you switched out an incandescent bulb with a LED bulb of equivalent candela since a light bulb places a constant demand on its power source.

But the demands a computer places on its power source is constantly changing from idle demands to maximum and back again, depending on what the user is doing AS WELL AS what the OS is doing. By that I mean when the user goes idle, that is often when the OS starts doing "housekeeping" chores - like checking for security and Windows Updates, scanning for malware, indexing drives, running TRIM and wear-leveling tasks on SSDs and defragging HDs, etc.

My point there is, even for computer experts, placing a consistent, realistic demand on a laptop battery to accurately measure and fairly compare runtimes is a real challenge, even in ideal, controlled laboratory scenarios.

Users don't use their computers in ways that place the exact same, consistent demand on their power sources day after day, or even hour after hour. This means for laptops, the runtimes day after day will never be the same. For this reason, when my clients reported longer runtimes, I suspect it was really wishful thinking and not really astute observations.

CPU and RAM run faster... ...so it becomes equalised if not worsened in active usage scenarios.
I don't see how it could worsen. If the CPU and RAM are not being bottlenecked by storage, that simply means they will finish their assigned tasks more quickly, then go back to idle and conserving power sooner. To me, faster disk access makes the CPU and RAM work more efficiently.

***

@SL2 - It appears Toothless (who is fully capable of defending himself, BTW) has let it go and moved on. I had let it go and moved on too. And the OP has made is decision and purchased a drive. Yet you continue this barrage of personal attacks. :(

Instead of wasting everyone's time with more of personal rants and complaints that don't provide any technical value to the thread, I recommend you use the Report button to report posts that don't meet your ideal standards. That's what the Report button is for. Let the real moderators (and there are 2 in this thread) do the moderating. They are good at their jobs and experience tells me they won't hesitate when they deem it necessary.

In the meantime, you can always put me on your ignore list. I assure you, that will not hurt my feelings.

Now if we may, let's move on. Hopefully the OP's new drive will come early and he will report all is good with his dad's upgraded computer.
 
I don't see how it could worsen. If the CPU and RAM are not being bottlenecked by storage, that simply means they will finish their assigned tasks more quickly, then go back to idle and conserving power sooner. To me, faster disk access makes the CPU and RAM work more efficiently.
More data per hour = more wattage per hour. It's that simple. Instead of just helplessly waiting, CPU and RAM can actually work and thus, consume more power. SSD helps you get it over with much quicker so you save up on time more than on anything else. Old CPUs and RAM had their energy saving modes executed poorly or even non-existent so SSD slapped onto ancient wares definitely helps with battery. But not with assault, huehue. In modern day and age, it's generally silly to only have an HDD in your laptop in the first place and CPUs and stuff got much more energy efficient, especially on idle, so main concern here is the battery quality itself.
 
More data per hour = more wattage per hour. It's that simple. Instead of just helplessly waiting, CPU and RAM can actually work and thus, consume more power.
Yes, no. Not really. That is, I totally agree - in theory - but it is not "that simple". You left out what is perhaps the most significant factor - the human. Your statement assumes the human will instantly and automatically task the computer with more tasks to complete as soon as it finishes the last task. That is not a realistic assumption.

"IF" the user is instantly tasking the computer with additional tasks during all that freed up, extra time, then yes, more power will be used. But we humans don't typically work that way. I mean we are not talking about extra hours now available every day. I doubt even minutes. It more likely is just a few seconds by the end of the day. And the vast majority of that will be idle time.

I note most of us task our computers with CPU or GPU intensive tasks, not disk intensive tasks. That is, once the OS boots and our files are loaded into memory, the disk steps out of the way. Sure, boot times and program load times will speed up significantly, but after that, most activity happens in the background where it no longer is noticeable.

If these were data center computers, where another computer is constantly feeding in new tasks, then your theory holds true. But with humans feeding in the tasks, I don't see any significant "noticeable" savings.
 
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Sata cables are not IDE/PATA cables
Nobody said that it is. Pata used to be the most fugly clutter in blocky beige AT era computers.
None of them looked good, they blocked airflow from dinky little 40mm CPU fans and even round cables looked bad.
We're a good ~26 years into ATX and most flat ribbon cables got gone after 2010.
Q1 2014 (Z97's production lot) is well past that point. M.2 is an easy set and forget.

That board is created for gaming but obviously isn't the point of it anymore.
We don't know much about the intended utility other than light desktop work.
We don't know what the intended storage layout will be other than "hey can I use an M.2 in this?" and obviously yes.
Maybe it's a light duty workstation and that M.2 is all it gets. Maybe it becomes a storage server and proceeds to load up on 80TB of sata.
We don't know. I felt like pointing out that using M.2 slot has an I/O price.
So, SSD buyed, the Crucial P3, 500 Go for 35€.
Based. :pimp:
 
That board is created for gaming but obviously isn't the point of it anymore.
Was it ever "created" for gaming? Or was it simply gussied up and "marketed" for gaming?

I contend there are graphics cards created for gaming, but motherboards? I don't believe there are. IMO, there is nothing to suggest a motherboard marketed for gaming is not equally suited for CAD/CAE, graphics editing, database management or just about any other purpose.

Racing stripes don't make a car go faster.
 
You left out what is perhaps the most significant factor - the human.
You left "per hour" out and now accuse me of what I've never said. During the same periods of time, an HDD based system will have much more idle on the side of CPU+RAM. For how long will an actual user use their PC is for the user to decide.
I note most of us task our computers with CPU or GPU intensive tasks, not disk intensive tasks.
Swap doesn't exist anymore? Not everyone rocks a billion spare GB of RAM.
But with humans feeding in the tasks, I don't see any significant "noticeable" savings.
With humans I don't see savings at all. Only damage. It's in nature.
 
Was it ever "created" for gaming? Or was it simply gussied up and "marketed" for gaming?

I contend there are graphics cards created for gaming, but motherboards? I don't believe there are. IMO, there is nothing to suggest a motherboard marketed for gaming is not equally suited for CAD/CAE, graphics editing, database management or just about any other purpose.

Racing stripes don't make a car go faster.
Marketing term is gaming, i look at specs over terminology
 
You left "per hour" out
Per hour is immaterial. Regardless if 1 hour or 24 hours, humans are not going to instantly input another tasks the moment the previous task is finished to keep the system taxed.

now accuse me of what I've never said.
:roll:

What are you on? I said you left out the human factor and you take that as some sort of "accusation"? Gee whiz! :rolleyes: No, you never said it. That was the point. It was an observation, not an accusation.

Interesting though how it is okay for you to accuse me of something I never said, huh? :kookoo:

an HDD based system will have much more idle on the side of CPU+RAM. For how long will an actual user use their PC is for the user to decide.
Oh, you mean the human factor again. :rolleyes: Regardless, we are still talking seconds, maybe a few minutes per day, not hours. Sure, it takes longer for a HD to read a 1GB file than it does a SSD, but so what? You make it sound like there will be a HUGE, IN YOUR FACE, significant and noticeable difference in battery runtime and that ain't going to happen.

The biggest time saving will be when booting. But isn't that when most go get their first cup of coffee? ;)

Swap doesn't exist anymore? Not everyone rocks a billion spare GB of RAM.
Huh? None of that makes sense. The most RAM I mentioned was 16GB. I note many today believe 32GB is the minimum we should have.

And of course swap exists. That was much of my point for asking Lex about his laptop when I compared what I had personally seen on 4GB systems, compared to 8 and 16GB. Sorry, but you just demonstrated a lack of understanding about the page file. You can 256GB of RAM installed and the OS will still use the PF for lower priority data - unless the user dinks with the default settings again.

With humans I don't see savings at all.
Well, at least we agree on that.
Only damage.
But not that (unless they dink with the defaults).

Having said all that, I did not pose my question to Lex to argue with you. I posed my question to learn what Lex might have seen and that is ONLY if he migrated from a HD. I guess I should have done so via PM. :(

Marketing term is gaming, i look at specs over terminology
Exactly. "Marketing" is one (of several) reasons why I don't like RGB lighting. The other reasons are they do nothing for performance, consume some (albeit tiny) power, generate some (albeit tiny) heat, and they do nothing for performance (worth repeating). For me, they are only good as distractions - and I prefer to pay attention to what's on my monitors and not be distracted by flashing lights - especially coming from inside my case. ;)
 
Curious - did it replace a hard drive and if so, besides weight and performance, did you notice if it improved battery runtime too?
That is one of the interesting aspects of 2.5" drives in laptops. SSDs do tend to use more power than HDDs, greatly depending on the model of SSD. For example, I have several Samsung and Corsair drives that use between 1.4 to 1.8 amps, which is terrible in laptop context. However the OCZ only uses .35amps, which is an improvement over the HDD that came out of that laptop which is a Toshiba drive that used .8amps. So overall better power. I replaced the battery on that laptop at the same time installing the OCZ and as such have no idea what the difference in power usage is. The numbers say it should be better, but I doubt it would be noticeable given that I run my laptops at performance profiles anyway. I am never far from a wall power jack and I never leave the AC behind.

We've migrated several laptops from hard drives to SSDs over the years. I personally have never seen any significant improvement in battery runtimes when replacing a HD with a SSD, except in a couple entry level laptops that only had 4GB of RAM installed.
That makes sense. We're talking about fractions of an amp in difference and most SSDs spend most of their time in low-power idle mode anyway. I greatly doubt the differences would be measurable on any scale that would be anything greater than statistical noise.
My educated guess (okay, suspicion... err... WAG) for the improved runtimes after migrating to SSDs were due to the small amount of RAM forcing the OS and CPU to access the PF significantly more often than in laptops that had 8 and 16GB of RAM. The theory being an SSD's better efficiency than hard drives demanded less from the battery.

SSD's superior disk access speeds can definitely improve disk performance. But our clients with 8 and 16GB of RAM were reporting noticeably longer battery runtimes in those systems too - where I didn't. So I am not sure if that was wishful thinking (placebo effect) on their part, or if reality.
That could be the differences in SSD models as stated above. Some SSDs use much less power and some use much more than HDDs. All of them spend tons of time in idle mode so even the ones that use more power only do so in bursts and still use less over all because they don't have a drive motor to constantly feed power too.
Those clients are not computer people. You are. So, did you notice improved battery runtimes?
As mentioned above, I have no stats to offer on this particular laptop. The numbers do highly suggest it will be more efficient. On other laptops however, I have noticed a general trend of slightly improved battery times, but again, I run in performance mode, so the differences in my use-case-scenarios will be measurable in minutes, or even seconds. The only time I dim the display and use a more balanced power profile is when I know I'll be away from a power socket for a while and need to get several hours out of a charge.

I guess I should have done so via PM. :(
Not at all. This is good info for people who read this to see. They'll see the experiences and perspective of those who have a different way of doing things and will be able to contemplate their own methodologies to fit their own particular situation and needs. They'll know that an SSD upgrade and be of benefit to speed and power but will not be the end of the world for their laptop if they stay with a HDD.

So, SSD buyed, the Crucial P3, 500 Go for 35€.
And even a little Artic fan 12 cm, for the back of the case.
Waiting for the delivery (the 5 Nov.)

More news next week !
That's an ok drive. Should perform well for that system. It's got a 5 year warranty, however, it's QLC and QLC isn't the best NAND. However, it's Micron NAND, so as far as QLC goes, you got the best! Only Samsung's QLC is as good. So all in all, for 35Eur it's a great value!
 
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I never understood the fuss over OCZ but it seemed some did not like them being bought out by Toshiba.
Vaguely remember something to do with Sandforce controller and customer service. Having said that I have a couple of working Agility 3 60GB drives bought back in 2011 so 13 years old now and still show 100% health. Biggest problem is the storage capacity, even back then I bought a couple of 128GB Vertex 4's a year later because of that and used them mostly in raid0. Also still working today but did have a supply rail cap go short. Removed that capacitor many years ago, didn't bother replacing it. Those are at 98% health. Had a Vertex 3 fail so 1 out of 5.

@KrazyT curious as to what OS you will use with that system?
 
That's an ok drive. Should perform well for that system. It's got a 5 year warranty, however, it's QLC and QLC isn't the best NAND. However, it's Micron NAND, so as far as QLC goes, you got the best! Only Samsung's QLC is as good. So all in all, for 35Eur it's a great value!
Yes 35 €, the risk is limited :)
@KrazyT curious as to what OS you will use with that system?
Maybe I will try Linux, but, i'm not used to, and my father is used to Windows.
Some distro seems simple enough to switch.
Thing is, he's "playing" a chess game, don't remember if it's a Win game, or something on a browser.
I should check if a good chess game is avaible on linux :)
 
First, thanks Lex for the extensive reply! :)
SDs do tend to use more power than HDDs, greatly depending on the model of SSD.
You are right. Some do - but that typically is when they are active (reading and writing). When idle most SSDs consume less, in part because most hard drive motors continue to spin - at least for several minutes - after activity stops.
but I doubt it would be noticeable
Noticeable being the key word there.
but I doubt it would be noticeable given that I run my laptops at performance profiles anyway. I am never far from a wall power jack
That makes sense.
I never leave the AC behind.
I did - once. :(
Not at all. This is good info for people who read this to see.
And that is why I posed the question in public.

Vaguely remember something to do with Sandforce controller and customer service.
There definitely were issues with Sandforce controllers but I note other brands like Kingston and Corsair used them too. They were not exclusive to OCZ.

As for customer service, that's certainly possible but frankly, I am not aware of any company's customer service that has consistently received good reviews from their customers. Company bean counters see customer service/tech support as evil, bottomless money pits as they consume lots of resources while bringing $0.00 in revenue. So they invest in those services (and their employees there) as little as possible. Customers see customer service/tech support as a PITA and often a total waste of time. :( Anyway, my point there is poor customer service certainly is/was not exclusive to OCZ either.

As a reminder, typical Level 1 customer/tech support people are underpaid and poorly trained, often prohibited from deviating from their checklists even when they know that is not the solution. This is management's fault, not theirs. So please don't take your frustration out on the person on the other end of the phone (even when you can't understand a word they say).
 
Back here, hardware received, mounted and not recognized ... :/
I should miss something ...
 
You did this?
Well, no :)
I have the F5 bios.

The F6 bios add :
  1. Supports Intel® 5th Generation Core™ Processor
  2. This BIOS prohibits updating to earlier version BIOS
F7 :
  1. Better system compatibility for Intel® 5th Generation Core™ Processor
F8d :
  1. Beta BIOS
  2. Fix memory compatibility
I'm not sure about the F6 bios This BIOS prohibits updating to earlier version BIOS.

The others ones seems only for newer CPU so ...

Tried with an Samsung 980 NVMe 1TB, so sign of life in the bios too !

Edit** :
I have a Asus external SSD Case, (the 980 comes from it), I put the Crucial P3 inside, and Win recognize it but I have a choice to initialise it : Pricipal boot / or / GPT
Can it makes a difference and ended up recognized in the bios ?
 
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