AMD to Skip a Radeon RX 7700 Series Launch For Now, Prioritize RX 7600 Series, Computex Unveiling Expected

[AusWolf]

It's really odd at this point it's been 4 months and we haven't even heard about any possible specs for the 7800XT yet Nvidia has released 4 cards in a similar span and likely will launch the 4060/4060ti soon.

I think it's either bad scaling of the chiplet design on a price/cost level, or AMD wants to focus their efforts on the segment that sells the most.

 

[Vya Domus]

Just look at the 7900XT and arguable better card than the 4070ti yet it has dropped in price a ton since launch.... While the 4070ti seems to be holding it's price. Think about it this way if AMD wanted 900 usd for a card that barely performs better than the 6950XT what where they originally going to ask for the 7800XT lol.

The 4080 is a horrendously priced product and it has held it's price for even longer, that doesn't mean anything. Nvidia operates differently than AMD, it's not exactly news that Nvidia is letting AIBs work on an extremely thin margins, any price drop and they'd have to go out of business, EVGA already did.

You are also forgetting that the 4070ti was meant to be 900$, you can imagine how little room for price drops there is if it's already discounted by 100$. Technically speaking the 4070ti had it's price cut before it was even launched, lol.

The matter here is entirely different, people are arguing that AMD can't make cheaper GPUs, which makes no sense, there is no technical argument to be made in favor of that claim.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

The 4080 is a horrendously priced product and it has held it's price for even longer, that doesn't mean anything. Nvidia operates differently, it's not exactly news that Nvidia is letting AIBs work on an extremely thin margins, any price drop and they'd have to go out of business, EVGA already did.

The matter here is entirely different, people are arguing that AMD can't make cheaper GPUs, which makes no sense, there is no technical argument to be made in favor of that claim.

They don't have the mindshare to price how Nvidia does yet they still try..... Makes me think they don't want to offer a decent $550 card because even if it's slightly better than a 4070 if it's 600 usd it won't sell well. I'm guessing they originally wanted to charge 750 usd for the 7800XT saw the 7900XT drop like a rock and where like never mind we will skip to the 7600XT lol.....

 

[Vya Domus]

Makes me think they don't want to offer a decent $550 card because even if it's slightly better than a 4070 if it's 600 usd it won't sell well.

That's exactly the point, of course they can make a comparable or even better product, they know it just probably wont sell very well and 6000 series is covering that segment well enough.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

I think it's either bad scaling of the chiplet design on a price/cost level, or AMD wants to focus their efforts on the segment that sells the most.

I think even with the terrible drivers the 5700XT was a decent hit for them I remember quite a few people having them and it was an ok alternative over the 2070 super being 100usd cheaper and even more sometimes. So it's odd to me they would neglect that general price range.

 

[AusWolf]

people are arguing that AMD can't make cheaper GPUs, which makes no sense, there is no technical argument to be made in favor of that claim.

There is the chiplet design that doesn't necessarily scale well into cheaper territories. But let's hope you're right.

I think even with the terrible drivers the 5700XT was a decent hit for them I remember quite a few people having them and it was an ok alternative over the 2070 super being 100usd cheaper and even more sometimes. So it's odd to me they would neglect that general price range.

I agree. Unless chiplet GPUs cost too much to make to be an economically feasible solution in the mid-range, I can't see why they would resort to such a move.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

There is the chiplet design that doesn't necessarily scale well into cheaper territories. But let's hope you're right.

it's been kinda scaling down on it's own from it's original 900 usd down to 780 usd on the AMD website..... So whether AMD wants it to or not it's been trending downwards.

 

[Vya Domus]

There is the chiplet design that doesn't necessarily scale well into cheaper territories. But let's hope you're right.

It seems to work just fine for CPUs where it's usefulness is objectively worse because monolithic consumer level CPU dies are typically much smaller than consumer GPUs.

Also, I have to point out the obvious here, they don't have to use chiplets.

 

[dirtyferret]

For reasons unknown, that's exactly what AMD has just said. For a while longer, they either can't do it or it doesn't make sense for them to do it.

AMD has been pretty clear they are OK with 20-25% market share with good margins on their cards.* If you look at how AMD takes on Intel in CPUs and Nvidia in GPUs, it doesn't even look like the same company.

*I'm not knocking it, if that's what they want as a business and find it profitable; it is what it is. Just sucks for consumers.

It's really odd at this point it's been 4 months and we haven't even heard about any possible specs for the 7800XT yet Nvidia has released 4 cards in a similar span and likely will launch the 4060/4060ti soon.

See above, GPU division marketing is ass backwards

This is because margins on Nvidia cards are thin and volumes are high, there's no room for significant price cuts, unless somebody just wants go go bankrupt.

Nvidia operating profit margin percentage is in the mid 20's and GPUs make up their core business so their margins may not be as thin as you think

 

[sethmatrix7]

Just look at the 7900XT and arguable better card than the 4070ti yet it has dropped in price a ton since launch.... While the 4070ti seems to be holding it's price. Think about it this way if AMD wanted 900 usd for a card that barely performs better than the 6950XT what where they originally going to ask for the 7800XT lol.



It's really odd at this point it's been 4 months and we haven't even heard about any possible specs for the 7800XT yet Nvidia has released 4 cards in a similar span and likely will launch the 4060/4060ti soon.

No need for AMD to launch 7700 or 7800 when their current offerings beat the competition in that segment

 

[Dr. Dro]

It really doesn't make sense.

Does it really get more laughable than the 4070 ? It has the same perf/price as the 7900XT, a card at least 200$ more expensive. You're telling me AMD can't make a cheaper card that, at the very least, matches the perf/price of their own higher end offerings ? How would that even work ?

Come on man, you must realize how little sense that makes.

View attachment 292900

Yes, it absolutely does - by failing to meet its performance target while demanding more energy than it does. Remember, price is about where the negatives of the 4070 end. The power efficiency is off the charts high, it's the the first 1x8-pin GPU since the 1080!

 

[R0H1T]

It's not necessarily a plus ~ it's massively castrated that's why!

 

[oxrufiioxo]

No need for AMD to launch 7700 or 7800 when their current offerings beat the competition in that segment

Yet there are 9 different models still available of the 6800XT on Newegg direct while the original card that competed with it the 3080 is all sold out..... Same with the 6950XT ton of stock yet it's original competitor the 3090ti is all sold out...... So more like AMD is being forced to drop prices because nobody wants the 6800XT-6950XT

 

[BoboOOZ]

Nvidia operating profit margin percentage is in the mid 20's and GPUs make up their core business so their margins may not be as thin as you think

If it wasn't obvious, I was talking about AIB and reseller margins.

Nvidia's margins are nice and fat, fatter than AMD or Intel.

 

[sethmatrix7]

Yet there are 9 different models still available of the 6800XT on Newegg direct while the original card that competed with it the 3080 is all sold out..... Same with the 6950XT ton of stock yet its original competitor the 3090ti is all sold out...... So more like AMD is being forced to drop prices because nobody wants the 6800XT-6950XT

The 3080 selling more doesn’t mean it’s better… same for the 4070. People are stupid

 

[dirtyferret]

I was talking about AIB and reseller margins.

yes, their margins suck which is why evga is out

 

[Vya Domus]

Yes, it absolutely does - by failing to meet its performance target while demanding more energy than it does. Remember, price is about where the negatives of the 4070 end. The power efficiency is off the charts high, it's the the first 1x8-pin GPU since the 1080!

I just explained to you there is no reason to believe they couldn't make a card as fast as a 4070, that's absurd, I don't know why you insist on that. And the power consumption is hardly relevant, a 4070 is roughly 80% of a 7900XT according to TPU, just extrapolating linearly, 80% of the power consumption would put an AMD equivalent at 255W (probably even less because of fewer memory chips).

No one would care about 50W, certainly not to the extent of being a deal braker, they would care if it was cheaper. Be real.

 

[bug]

Yet there are 9 different models still available of the 6800XT on Newegg direct while the original card that competed with it the 3080 is all sold out..... Same with the 6950XT ton of stock yet it's original competitor the 3090ti is all sold out...... So more like AMD is being forced to drop prices because nobody wants the 6800XT-6950XT

Let's not forget Nvidia has delayed Ada and priced it quite stiff, precisely because they needed to clear Ampere stock. AMD has chosen not to release anything instead. With the results that you have noted.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Let's not forget Nvidia has delayed Ada and priced it quite stiff, precisely because they needed to clear Ampere stock. AMD has chosen not to release anything instead. With the results that you have noted.

I'm not saying AMD strategy isn't sound I was just pointing out that it seems like their products have to drop quite a bit more than Nvidia's competing cards before they seem to be appealing to consumers.

Alternatively they could have been trying to hold back stock even more than Nvidia to sell at higher prices which sucks for them at this point I guess.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I just explained to you there is no reason to believe they couldn't make a card as fast as a 4070, that's absurd, I don't know why you insist on that. And the power consumption is hardly relevant, a 4070 is roughly 80% of a 7900XT according to TPU, just extrapolating linearly, 80% of the power consumption would put an AMD equivalent at 255W (probably even less because of fewer memory chips).

No one would care about 50W, certainly not to the extent of being a deal braker, they would care if it was cheaper. Be real.

It takes AMD the 7900 XT to make a product that is, features notwithstanding, on equal footing vs. the 4070 Ti. Those 55W are enough to make the card go into another tier of cooling and PSU requirements entirely, and the 200W that you're taking here is worst case scenario measurements for the 4070 - literally the maximum full load under RT, undervolted and with DLSS3 it shouldn't be difficult to get the 4070 at the 100W ballpark.

I'm not saying AMD strategy isn't sound I was just pointing out that it seems like their products have to drop quite a bit more than Nvidia's competing cards before they seem to be appealing to consumers.

Alternatively they could have been trying to hold back stock even more than Nvidia to sell at higher prices which sucks for them at this point I guess.

Steps to rectify:

#1: Make a good product which does not suffer from chronic software issues and contains no major drawbacks to its design (AMD has failed this check)
#2: Ensure your product has any redeeming quality over its competitor's (AMD has failed this check)
#3: Price your product well (AMD would have failed this check if they didn't have RDNA 2 overstock to burn)

In essence, NVIDIA price gouges simply because they're pretty much uncontested right now.

 

[bug]

I'm not saying AMD strategy isn't sound I was just pointing out that it seems like their products have to drop quite a bit more than Nvidia's competing cards before they seem to be appealing to consumers.

Alternatively they could have been trying to hold back stock even more than Nvidia to sell at higher prices which sucks for them at this point I guess.

It's obviously not that sound. Now people look at prices that are too high and wonder why they should pay that for the old gen, when the next gen is supposedly around the corner.
End users aside, there are few things AIBs like less than their merchandise rotting on the shelves. That's going to affect how they sign contracts with AMD in the future. And we lose again

 

[john_]

So you're asking them to do what Nvidia is doing and to do it better than them. Do you think it is reasonable?

You are kidding. You must be kidding.

I am saying that they don't need to offer an alternative to every offered feature Nvidia offers. You ignored that part. Why you ignored that part? They only need to be competitive where it matters. Raster and Ray Tracing performance first, improve FSR secondly, try in time to create an alternative to Frame Generation.

And yes it is reasonable to ask them to be competitive to Nvidia. How are they going to offer alternatives if they are not competitive? Do you see what is happening with ARC? ARC not being competitive, means that Intel needs to bleed money to just be able to have cards on shelves. AMD can't do that. They shouldn't do that. They are not new in the business. They are decades in the business. They have to be competitive. Or else they will be having the problems they are having now. Building products and not knowing if it is logical to even market them.

AMD have more leeway to drop prices than Nvidia. In fact the prices on the 7900XT are dropping exactly because resellers have more margin on the AMD cards than on Nvidia ones. The chiplet approach allows them to have competitive prices in a recession. I think they have the right long term strategy, keep a healthy growth and healthy margins as a company. Should they spend 4X more to make something stronger that the 4090? I don't think that would be a good strategy, even if many users want it.

No they don't. Nvidia enjoys 65% profit margin, AMD around 45% profit margin. Nvidia sells 8 times more, meaning they can lower their profit margins even further and still have higher income and more profits than AMD. The price of 7900XT drops because AMD thought that RT performance was not going to be that much important today, so 7000 series development wasn't focusing on RT performance. With all marketing focusing on RT, people are rushing to buy Nvidia cards with limited VRAM instead of better performing, on raster, AMD cards with way more VRAM. The 7900XT was also priced too close to 7900XTX, an indication that AMD couldn't price it lower. Why? Maybe a miscalculation thinking that consumers will focus on raster performance only and still buy the 7900XT at $900 for the raster performance and the extra VRAM. Or maybe they didn't wanted to push Nvidia to lower MSRP prices, so they can sell 7800 and 7700 series at prices where they could make some profit. But with RT performance probably significantly worst than what the $600 RTX 4070 can offer and no Frame Generation to at least have a way to publish performance numbers that compete with Nvidia's numbers, they are now in a dead end.

A long term strategy where they will achieve sales in let's say, 18 months from now, while in the meantime Nvidia will be swimming in money, is not exactly a good strategy.

 

[Vya Domus]

you're taking here is worst case scenario measurements for the 4070 - literally the maximum full load under RT, undervolted and with DLSS3 it shouldn't be difficult to get the 4070 at the 100W ballpark.

No I'm not, 200W is the power limit of a 4070, 350W was the worst case scenario for a 7900XT as well. You're clutching at straws, I can undervolt, lower the power limit, use FSR, blah blah blah and get a lot less than 350W on a 7900XT as well, it doesn't mean anything.

Those 55W are enough to make the card go into another tier of cooling and PSU requirements entirely

A chunk of metal that can cool 200W can probably also cool 250W just as well, if AMD will release something similar to the 4070 I'll bet you anything the coolers are going to be roughly the same if not identical. Also, another tier of PSU for 50W ? Really ? You do realize that argument can be made for like, literally anything ? You want a 7900X instead of a 7700X ? Well, that's another tier of PSU for you because it's going to use 50W more or whatever, come on.

 

[MarsM4N]

Well, that's kinda old news.

https://wccftech.com/amd-to-introdu...00-rx-7600-rdna-3-gpus-at-competitive-prices/

It's really odd at this point it's been 4 months and we haven't even heard about any possible specs for the 7800XT yet Nvidia has released 4 cards in a similar span and likely will launch the 4060/4060ti soon.

Check out the link below, they posted specs of the whole RX7000 lineup. RX7800 & RX7700 release might be Q3 2023.
I guess they're still sitting on tons of RX6950/RX6900's that need to be moved before.

https://www.pcgameshardware.de/AMD-...-7700-7800-Release-Grafikkarten-Juni-1414192/

 

[N3M3515]

What about the 7800 series?