AMD "Zen 6" Processor Families to Use a Mix of TSMC N2 and N3 Nodes

[Makaveli]

I decided to go for a longer term build with a Ryzen 9 9950X3D instead of a Ryzen 7 9800X3D. The former needs water cooling, and AMD has made it more clear that water cooling is needed for optimum results for that. A Ryzen 7 9800X3D can be optimally cooled with an air cooler, but could last not as long if more programs need more cores later on. Maybe the non-X3D cores can handle background tasks, allowing the X3D cores to run the game.

I agree with your approach I forward think on my builds also.

Using a 360MM AIO on my 9800X3D I may go up on Core count for Zen 6 and I rather have the room to expand than to rip out the cooler and buy another one because I went up in core count.

Secondly I did it because my AIO is front mounted and just makes more sense to go 360MM instead of 280 or 240.

I gave up on air coolers long time ago, after going AM4 in 2019 i've been AIO since I prefer the cleaner look and lower sound profile. I was air tower cooler guy before this for decades!

 

[freeagent]

Cooler weight and mounting pressure that doesn’t exceed the spec hasn’t caused any problems.

Is there a weight limit to their spec? I wouldn't think the weight of the cooler would make any difference. Mounting pressure maybe, but even still if the package will bend from mount pressure, then it is a bad design.. jmo..

 

[Visible Noise]

Huge air coolers that exceed the Intel spec and bend the CPU would not be needed if Raptor Lake did not crash out and self-destruct due to self-overheating and self-overvolting so often.

Oh look, whataboutism at its finest.

Is there a weight limit to their spec? I wouldn't think the weight of the cooler would make any difference. Mounting pressure maybe, but even still if the package will bend from mount pressure, then it is a bad design.. jmo..

Yes, both AMD and Intel specify everything about their CPUs. If I recall, Intels limit is 500g. I’ll go look it up.

Intel:

 

[freeagent]

500g? I take bigger dumps

 

[jnv11]

Is there a weight limit to their spec? I wouldn't think the weight of the cooler would make any difference. Mounting pressure maybe, but even still if the package will bend from mount pressure, then it is a bad design.. jmo..

I have not been able to find any mounting pressure or weight limits for AMD Socket AM5. As for Intel's mounting pressure or weight limits, I did find a weight limit for a previous Intel socket on a previous build several years ago. However, finding it was really tough. I have forgotten which socket it was or what the limit is.

Google's AI does show a mounting pressure limit for socket AM5, but checking the sources that it cites shows that AI result to appear to be a misinterpretation of a forum post. I therefore consider that AI result to be unreliable.

 

[freeagent]

Shoot.. I have used multiple 1000g coolers on older Intel, and modernish AMD. The fans make it heavier

I have no idea what the mounting pressure is that Thermalright uses.. but it is a lot. Love it.

 

[Visible Noise]

500g? I take bigger dumps

Don’t look at Epyc then

I have not been able to find any mounting pressure or weight limits for AMD Socket AM5. As for Intel's mounting pressure or weight limits, I did find a weight limit for a previous Intel socket on a previous build several years ago. However, finding it was really tough. I have forgotten which socket it was or what the limit is.

Google's AI does show a mounting pressure limit for socket AM5, but checking the sources that it cites shows that AI result to appear to be a misinterpretation of a forum post. I therefore consider that AI result to be unreliable.

Yeah, AMD is really tight with sharing their documentation. I have no idea why.

AMD, the “open” company, walling off their technical documents

 

[jnv11]

Oh look, whataboutism at its finest.


Yes, both AMD and Intel specify everything about their CPUs. If I recall, Intels limit is 500g. I’ll go look it up.

Intel:
View attachment 407936

How is this whataboutism? A well-designed CPU in my opinion should be able to be air-cooled with a cooler that fits easily-found heat sink thermal design guidelines without self-destruction due to self-overheating if no guidance on whether air cooling or water cooling is necessary is provided. If guidance recommending or requiring water cooling is provided, then I will accept that the CPU is designed to need water cooling for optimal operation. However, the CPU or the motherboard should still be able to throttle the CPU if it gets too hot before the CPU can overheat and damage itself. If there is no way to design an air cooler that fits the thermal design guidelines and not have the CPU self-destruct or crash due to overheating and you never specified that the CPU requires a water cooler, then you have a bad design. If you do specify that your CPU requires a water cooler and no water cooler that fits the thermal design guidelines could keep the CPU from overheating and crashing or damaging itself due to overheating, then you have a bad design.

I hate tactics where the thermal design guidelines are published in a hidden location to allow the CPU manufacturer to say in court that the specification was published should a victim of a CPU which got bent and damaged by a heat sink sue over a denied warranty claim, but the thermal design guidelines are published in a way to make finding the documents exceedingly difficult so that victims will unknowingly breach the warranty by unknowingly breaching the thermal design guidelines.

 

[freeagent]

Stock Zen 5 is super easy to cool. I bet I can run my 9900X at stock semi passively. Maybe even with a bit of a tune.

 

[ARF]

Nothing needs watercooling my man, that's not how computers work. 9950x 3d is easier to cool cause the heat is spread in 2 ccds instead of 1. Cooling a CPU doesn't have much to do with the cooler itself anymore, you can put a huge 12 fan watercooler and youll see no gains cause heat transfer is bottlenecked by the IHS, not by the size of your cooler. You can check TPU's cooler reviews, the difference between your average air cooler and your average water cooler is ~10 watts. A 40$ air cooler can cool 235 watts @ 95c, a watercooler can do 250w @ 95c. That's what, 20mhz higher clocks? It's peanuts. Doesn't make a difference.

Use AirJet - fix your problems. Redesign the CPU - use integrated vapour chamber directly attached to the dies - don't use thick IHS.

Frore Systems

Frore Systems is the developer of breakthrough thermal technology for consumer devices. The company’s active cooling chips, AirJet® Mini and AirJet® Pro, are integrated into devices to remove heat silently, delivering 2X improvement in device processor performance.

www.froresystems.com

Even modern phones use innovative cooling, while primitive consumer PCs still stay with primitive coolers.

POCO F6 Pro | POCO Global

HyperPower Evolved | Snapdragon® 8 Gen 2 | 120W HyperCharge | WQHD+ Flow AMOLED

www.po.co

 

[Guwapo77]

The gamers have always needed graphics cards, not central processors. You can game at 4K on a potato CPU, without much of a or any difference in the framerate. .
Graphics cards where, unfortunately, AMD is very weak and lost momentum and focus.

There are games out there that are still single threaded, thus getting a nice upgrade by 1ghz helps. Secondly, CPUs matter, just not as much as a GPU... Put a 5090 on a 3950X or a 9950X3D and you're telling me, it doesn't matter? Stop the CAP bro.

 

[ARF]

3950X

Don't troll. There is no significant difference. Check the reviews !

 

[Tomorrow]

Don't troll. There is no significant difference. Check the reviews !

There is. I guess you missed how HUB tested with 3950X, 5800X and 5800X3D.
This came up last November when some people who do not understand CPU testing claimed that there is no difference at 4K as to what CPU you use.

Judging from user ARF's posts here this urban legend has still not died yet so i'll link both the short and long versions of these videos here:

And in case you're lazy here are the screenshots of these aforementioned CPU's tested with 3090 Ti vs 4090. The difference today with 5090 would be even bigger:

 

[ARF]

How many people care about 4090 or 3090 Ti? Check the reviews with Radeon RX 6600, 7600, 7700, 9070.

 

[EarthDog]

How many people care about 4090 or 3090 Ti? Check the reviews with Radeon RX 6600, 7600, 7700, 9070.

Who's trying to run 4k with those potato gpus in the first place??? Of course it wouldnt show much as it would be severely gpu limited... like it normally is at 4k.

Maybe the 9070 some would say is 4k capable...but otherwise....

 

[Tomorrow]

How many people care about 4090 or 3090 Ti? Check the reviews with Radeon RX 6600, 7600, 7700, 9070.

3090 Ti is roughly the performance of RX 9070 non-XT. The point im trying to make is that using higher performing GPU's pretty quickly exposes CPU bottlenecks even at 4K.

So anyone following the advice that using a potato CPU is fine at 4K doesn't even know how much performance they are losing.
In the test even 5800X3D loses performance when paired with RTX 4090. Next generation that will be a AMD and Nvidia 80 class cards with 4090 performance.

 

[ARF]

3090 Ti is roughly the performance of RX 9070 non-XT. The point im trying to make is that using higher performing GPU's pretty quickly exposes CPU bottlenecks even at 4K.

This is true - but you don't use a potato CPU with a 4090.
95% of the users have Radeon RX 6600 class of GPU with something like Ryzen 5 or Ryzen 3.

So anyone following the advice that using a potato CPU is fine at 4K doesn't even know how much performance they are losing.
In the test even 5800X3D loses performance when paired with RTX 4090. Next generation that will be a AMD and Nvidia 80 class cards with 4090 performance.

That will be an epic fail. 5080 is already around 4090 performance.

 

[Tomorrow]

That will be an epic fail. 5080 is already around 4090 performance.

It's not. It's about 15% less and even with 5080 OC that gap remains at 5%.

 

[ARF]

It's not. It's about 15% less and even with 5080 OC that gap remains at 5%.

15% plus or minus is a negligible difference. No one normal upgrades for 15% performance. So, are you saying that 6080 will be a rebrand of 5080 ?