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AMD's Upcoming UDNA / RDNA 5 GPU Could Feature 96 CUs and 384-bit Memory Bus

For at least the last 15 years people wanting from AMD to
- offer much cheaper options
- be almost as good as Intel's and Nvidia's to force those companies to lower prices
- but not be equal or better than Intel's or Nvidia's, because they still wanted to feel that buying Nvidia or Intel hardware puts them on the top class, gives them the right to laugh at those "poor people buying AMD hardware"

AMD tried their best all those years to get market share and support. They managed to do that in CPUs, not just because they where offering better CPUs, but because Intel was going from one disaster to the next. Intel was pushing 300W to win in gaming and people still preferred Intel. They failed in GPUs. Not because they had much worst products, but because the average online person was too friendly to Nvidia, too hostile to AMD. The last 15 years people keep finding excuses to NOT buy AMD hardware. They keep playing the same song "Make good enough products, so I can buy Nvidia, because I better cut my hand than touching an AMD GPU".
In many cases AMD was offering better products at better pricing. But people where always trying to find an excuse to pay more to Nvidia to get less. RX 6600 vs RTX 3050 is a major example. RTX 3050 more expensive, much slower, it probably sold 10 times more than RX 6600. There will always be an excuse. And every excuse will be "HUGE" reason to not buy AMD.

The Radeon division was in a much stronger spot 15 years ago compared to the CPU division. It was Nvidia's Maxwell that really started turning the screws on them, and then Pascal pretty much wiped them out from mid/high-end relevance. Nvidia's product was just better. Significantly more power efficient, more stable drivers, and priced reasonably well. And just for the sake of mentioning it, back at that point I was still a pretty hardcore team red fanboy, arguing with people about why the R9-290 was a no-brainer compared to the GTX 970.

One thing that often doesn't get brought up in these kinds of discussions though it's how specifically relevant all of those factors are for major OEMs looking to sign supply agreements for dGPUs. If you're a Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc, lower power consumption means cost savings on power supplies and cooling, more stable drivers means lower tech support costs. If you're looking at cards like the 3050 and wondering how it has such a massive install-base lead over something like the 6600, a lot of that is going to be down to OEM choices, because that's where the bulk of those cards are going.

Your argument is basically boiling down to "everyone else seems to be an idiot and I'm the only one seeing clearly here". You treat yourself as thinking rationally about the situation, but judge everyone who comes to a different conclusion as being irrational. Once you re-frame it to see everyone as trying to act in their own rational self interest to the best of their abilities, you might be surprised at how much better all the pieces suddenly seem to fit in.
 
The Radeon division was in a much stronger spot 15 years ago compared to the CPU division. It was Nvidia's Maxwell that really started turning the screws on them, and then Pascal pretty much wiped them out from mid/high-end relevance. Nvidia's product was just better. Significantly more power efficient, more stable drivers, and priced reasonably well. And just for the sake of mentioning it, back at that point I was still a pretty hardcore team red fanboy, arguing with people about why the R9-290 was a no-brainer compared to the GTX 970.

One thing that often doesn't get brought up in these kinds of discussions though it's how specifically relevant all of those factors are for major OEMs looking to sign supply agreements for dGPUs. If you're a Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc, lower power consumption means cost savings on power supplies and cooling, more stable drivers means lower tech support costs. If you're looking at cards like the 3050 and wondering how it has such a massive install-base lead over something like the 6600, a lot of that is going to be down to OEM choices, because that's where the bulk of those cards are going.
They were, but Nvidia, even 15+ years ago had much stronger marketing and better business model. AMD wasn't doing much, even when they where at 40% market share. Their HD 4000 series was great and their HD 5000 series had an advantage over Fermi. But Nvidia was doing a much better job in promoting it's hardware. They convinced tech press and gamers that PhysX was an important feature and more importantly developers to not just use PhysX, but also make the visual experience much worst without it. They had managed to convince developers to develop and optimize their games on Nvidia hardware, probably because AMD didn't wanted to spent extra money to promote it's GPUs, something to be expected from a company that was still considering themselves a CPU company and probably they still do today, with the exception of Instinct line of cards. On the contrary Nvidia was spending money on developers and also helping them to not just integrate it's proprietary techs, but make them the core of their programming code, by using stuff like Gameworks Libraries. Nvidia was prioritizing software over hardware and that was a huge advantage for them, even back then. AMD on the other hand had almost always better hardware, but was waiting from others to take advantage of it. By working with developers and promoting proprietary techs, by locking PhysX and CUDA , even punishing their own customers who dared to use an AMD card as primary and set the Nvidia card as secondary, by probably buying a more favorable coverage from tech press while AMD was having all those financial problems and still remaining focused on the CPU market, they managed to not only gain market share, but also make AMD cards look inferior and also create all that drama about "AMD bad drivers". R9 290/X cards where mostly refreshes, a result of AMD's financial problems. It wasn't the big jump that someone should expect after the excellent HD 7970. And Nvidia had the clear upper hand even from that period, that's why you couldn't convince others that the R9 290 was better, that's why Nvidia's GTX 970 being a 3.5GB+0.5GB card didn't affected Nvidia's reputation or success in the market. Then another failed refresh in the form of R9 390, then the Fury that was a rushed product trying to take advantage of HBM, the Vega, Polaris. AMD didn't had money for marketing, they definitely didn't had money to pay the press and developers to be more friendly to them, fortunately they had won consoles that helped them with games being optimized on AMD hardware and having much less bugs when released and running on AMD hardware. Pascal was just a huge step for Nvidia, Nvidia was accelerating, AMD couldn't follow, was still focusing on CPUs and with Zen released they had even more reasons to be focusing on CPUs.

As for OEMs, they go with the strong brand that can warranty supply and sales. Intel had the fabs and the name, so AMD was winning in the CPU DIY market, but not the OEMs, Nvidia had the advantage of being the company with the strongest, more premium name in the market, proprietary stuff that tech press was promoting and eventually, with Pascal, clearly the faster hardware. Not always, not in every category, but still they where the premium name that was sitting on the top of the charts. OEMs want premium stickers on their boxes. That's why they are trying so much with Qualcomm. Qualcomm is a premium brand.

But my post you quoted was targeting the audience that for 20+ years plays the same tune. "Please AMD, create good enough and cheap enough hardware so I can spent less when buying hardware from your competitors". And people where always finding excuses to not chose AMD hardware. You see, AMD hardware was considered always for "the poor". We have Threadrippers out there and many still see AMD as the budget option. It is engraved in their minds.

Your argument is basically boiling down to "everyone else seems to be an idiot and I'm the only one seeing clearly here". You treat yourself as thinking rationally about the situation, but judge everyone who comes to a different conclusion as being irrational. Once you re-frame it to see everyone as trying to act in their own rational self interest to the best of their abilities, you might be surprised at how much better all the pieces suddenly seem to fit in.
You are the one who makes that mistake here, painting an image of me like I am an fanatic idiot who thinks he is the only sentient being on the planet. That's how you describe me here. The fact that you were a red fan 10 years ago and then you "seen the light", doesn't make you objective and me blind. You seen the light 10 years ago, congrats. And because you seen the light and I haven't, in your mind, you are doing here exactly what you are accusing me.

You are just missing my point here, because you are biased and you don't care understanding what I wrote in the post you quoted. 10 years ago you might understood. Today, you have seen the light and the others who still haven't, and insist on "coming to a different conclusion are (obviously) being irrational".
 
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The Radeon division was in a much stronger spot 15 years ago compared to the CPU division. It was Nvidia's Maxwell that really started turning the screws on them, and then Pascal pretty much wiped them out from mid/high-end relevance. Nvidia's product was just better. Significantly more power efficient, more stable drivers, and priced reasonably well. And just for the sake of mentioning it, back at that point I was still a pretty hardcore team red fanboy, arguing with people about why the R9-290 was a no-brainer compared to the GTX 970.

One thing that often doesn't get brought up in these kinds of discussions though it's how specifically relevant all of those factors are for major OEMs looking to sign supply agreements for dGPUs. If you're a Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc, lower power consumption means cost savings on power supplies and cooling, more stable drivers means lower tech support costs. If you're looking at cards like the 3050 and wondering how it has such a massive install-base lead over something like the 6600, a lot of that is going to be down to OEM choices, because that's where the bulk of those cards are going.

Your argument is basically boiling down to "everyone else seems to be an idiot and I'm the only one seeing clearly here". You treat yourself as thinking rationally about the situation, but judge everyone who comes to a different conclusion as being irrational. Once you re-frame it to see everyone as trying to act in their own rational self interest to the best of their abilities, you might be surprised at how much better all the pieces suddenly seem to fit in.
Are you new here? Its nvidias fault amd gpus have been mediocre for the past 15 years.

I honestly think people just want nvidia to lower prices so they can buy amd for cheaper.
 
AMD's biggest weakness and NV's biggest strength now is inconsistent execution.

You know you're getting a top to bottom stack from NV every gen, and that the performance ceiling is moving forward every gen (in the case of Blackwell, the cost of that additional performance was an absolutely Titanic 750mm2 die).

AMD waxes and wanes. They have good gens and placeholder gens, you never really know what you're getting out of them. We all thought AMD was back after the surprise of RDNA2, but then they stumbled with RDNA3 and fell with RDNA4 (in terms of pushing the performance boundary).

Will they be back with RDNA5/UDNA? Is it going to be another placeholder? Who knows. But we all know Nvidia is going to bring the heat with Rubin.

So often times AMD users don't really have an option to upgrade to anyone else except NV. When NV doesn't give them a bad experience, they never have a reason to go back to AMD. If you bought a 7900xtx, AMD doesn't really have an upgrade path for you right now. It's been this way for a long time and it shows in AMD's market share.

It's not the only reason, but it's a big one.
 
Are you new here? Its nvidias fault amd gpus have been mediocre for the past 15 years.

I honestly think people just want nvidia to lower prices so they can buy amd for cheaper.

Pretty sure they want nvidia to lower prices so they can buy more nvidia lol
 
AMD's biggest weakness and NV's biggest strength now is inconsistent execution.

You know you're getting a top to bottom stack from NV every gen, and that the performance ceiling is moving forward every gen (in the case of Blackwell, the cost of that additional performance was an absolutely Titanic 750mm2 die).

AMD waxes and wanes. They have good gens and placeholder gens, you never really know what you're getting out of them. We all thought AMD was back after the surprise of RDNA2, but then they stumbled with RDNA3 and fell with RDNA4 (in terms of pushing the performance boundary).

Will they be back with RDNA5/UDNA? Is it going to be another placeholder? Who knows. But we all know Nvidia is going to bring the heat with Rubin.

So often times AMD users don't really have an option to upgrade to anyone else except NV. When NV doesn't give them a bad experience, they never have a reason to go back to AMD. If you bought a 7900xtx, AMD doesn't really have an upgrade path for you right now. It's been this way for a long time and it shows in AMD's market share.

It's not the only reason, but it's a big one.
Both companies are targeting AI with their newer architectures. Even in CPUs, AMD's 9000 over 7000 CPUs, seems also like a refresh in desktops, but probably Zen 5 vs Zen 4 is a different case in servers.
Nvidia is enjoying a performance advantage, so they can do these transitions and still own the gaming market, even when newer products don't have real performance advantage, but mostly a feature advantage. I am talking about the sub $1000 market where the biggest difference from 3000 to 4000 is that we get FG and from 4000 to 5000 we get MFG. Nvidia also enjoys a 90% market share meaning even if they release something that is mostly a refresh, a placeholder, they will again sell greatly. That also affects AMD's decisions about "hi end". If they know that the $1000 target group, doesn't pay for an AMD product, they will direct their resources elsewhere. Of course they are making mistakes, they are not perfect. When RX 7000 was out and i was screaming that RT performance is important, at least for marketing reasons and that 7000 will fail, I was called "Nvidia fanboy". We know how it gone for the 7000 series, even when RX 7900XTX is considered a beast and we all see how RX 9070 got positive reception mostly thanks to it's RT performance improvements.
 
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Will they be back with RDNA5/UDNA? Is it going to be another placeholder? Who knows. But we all know Nvidia is going to bring the heat with Rubin.

Does it really matter? I mean i understand what you're saying, but if next gen consoles will use a midrange tier RDNA5/UDNA between xx60 XT and xx70, buying that tier will be enough for that console generation, unless you/we want to go for higher resolution and/or higher fps.
 
The Radeon division was in a much stronger spot 15 years ago compared to the CPU division.

No one at AMD knows that there is more money in the GPU market, not in the CPU market.

AMD's biggest weakness and NV's biggest strength now is inconsistent execution.

They simply stopped using modern lithography, RX 7600 is a 6nm turd in the age when phones already use 3nm chips and are on the road to 2nm chips.
They stopped making pipe cleaners - they lost the initiative, market presence, and slowly but surely are on the road to exiting the market altogether.
 
No one at AMD knows that there is more money in the GPU market, not in the CPU market.
South Korean news agency Newsis reported Monday that AMD increased the price of its Instinct MI350 AI accelerator from $15,000 to $25,000. Newsis cited an analyst report from investment bank HSBC.
AMD's MI350 can now compete with Nvidia's Blackwell B200 in the market," HSBC said, according to the Newsis report. "AMD's AI chip sales next year will be significantly higher than the previous estimate of $9.6 billion, at $15.1 billion."
AMD Stock Rises As Firm Raises AI Chip Price | Investor's Business Daily
 
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