An ARM to Rule Them All: ARM 76 To Challenge x86 Chips in the Laptop Space?

[R-T-B]

Except that A.R.M. R.I.S.C. is different from M.I.P.S., and not just a little different, very.

Indeed. ARM today is looking more and more like a POWER-esque RISC design than anything lightweight like MIPS (extensions galore, etc).

...

Well, I mean minus the "FEED ME ALL YOUR ENERGY!" part...

 

[sergionography]

Wake me when it surpasses a core i9 or Ryzen Threadripper in x86 performance using Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB.

There is already an arm core on that level, its called AMD k12 lol. It just has no place in the market right now. From what i remember from the jim keller interview they made k12 engine even bigger than the zen cores thanks to the lower complexity of ARM allowing more die space for it.

 

[Fluffmeister]

The average Joe doesn't want a laptop anyway, they can email and post all their humdrum nonsense on Facebook via their beloved phone/tablet device.

The hARM has already been done.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Wake me when it surpasses a core i9 or Ryzen Threadripper in x86 performance using Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB.

You know that's not what they're aiming for. Although, if they did enough re-engineering I bet they could get close..

The average Joe doesn't want a laptop anyway, they can email and post all their humdrum nonsense on Facebook via their beloved phone/tablet device.

That's not anymore. I'm witnessing a trend of people who are tired of small screens, lackluster battery life, weak tinny sounding speakers, "humdrum" performance & storage limitations(looking at you Apple) who want a better machine and are coming in to my shop looking for a full size laptop or desktop. The mobile market may have truly reach it's cap. Sales number for the past few years are showing this trend as well. I'd personally love to see 15" - 18" screen laptops with quality speakers, good storage and Android(NOT ChromeOS) based on a chipset like the one this article describes.

 

[phanbuey]

 

[eidairaman1]

You know that's not what they're aiming for. Although, if they did enough re-engineering I bet they could get close..

That's not anymore. I'm witnessing a trend of people who are tired of small screens, lackluster battery life, weak tinny sounding speakers, "humdrum" performance & storage limitations(looking at you Apple) who want a better machine and are coming in to my shop looking for a full size laptop or desktop. The mobile market may have truly reach it's cap. Sales number for the past few years are showing this trend as well. I personally love to see 15" - 18" screen laptops with quality speakers, good storage and Android(NOT ChromeOS) based on a chipset like the one this article describes.

Now if laptop manufacturers would realize the importance of better cooling fans in their units...

 

[lexluthermiester]

Love that movie! Took long enough.. ARM chips are the global top dog as there are more ARM based devices than there are X86/X64 devices. Bizarre. I wonder if this new gen of ARM chips is going to make things more interesting.

 

[Fluffmeister]

That's not anymore. I'm witnessing a trend of people who are tired of small screens, lackluster battery life, weak tinny sounding speakers, "humdrum" performance & storage limitations(looking at you Apple) who want a better machine and are coming in to my shop looking for a full size laptop or desktop. The mobile market may have truly reach it's cap. Sales number for the past few years are showing this trend as well. I'd personally love to see 15" - 18" screen laptops with quality speakers, good storage and Android(NOT ChromeOS) based on a chipset like the one this article describes.

Who am I to question the might of your shop.

Lets hope then ARM can capitalise on this emerging laptop craze.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Who am I to question the might of your shop.

How about world-wide market trends of mobile device sales plateauing(and even shrinking depending on the market) for the last few years?

 

[R0H1T]

That's not anymore. I'm witnessing a trend of people who are tired of small screens, lackluster battery life, weak tinny sounding speakers, "humdrum" performance & storage limitations(looking at you Apple) who want a better machine and are coming in to my shop looking for a full size laptop or desktop. The mobile market may have truly reach it's cap.
Sales number for the past few years are showing this trend as well. I'd personally love to see 15" - 18" screen laptops with quality speakers, good storage and Android(NOT ChromeOS) based on a chipset like the one this article describes.

You mean people are tired of phones or tablets, when they're buying a new laptop or desktop? Also would these PC buyers get a replacement or 2nd laptop/desktop anytime soon?

The mobile market is plateauing , it's not reached it's cap yet. The whole of South Asia, most populous region in the world, as well as Africa is yet to be fully tapped. So while the per unit sales is probably going down down, the overall unit sales are yet to peak.

 

[lexluthermiester]

You mean people are tired of phones or tablets, when they're buying a new laptop or desktop? Also would these PC buyers get a replacement or 2nd laptop/desktop anytime soon?

No, I mean that people who once used a PC(desktop or laptop) or have never owned one(generally younger people) are coming in to get one so they can have a better experience with what they what to do. They tend to come back for advise and tend to share their usage habits. The general trend is that the usage balances out between mobile and PC. Honestly I didn't see this coming but it's happening more frequently.

The mobile market is plateauing , it's not reached it's cap yet. The whole of South Asia, most populous region in the world, as well as Africa is yet to be fully tapped. So while the per unit sales is probably going down down, the overall unit sales are yet to peak.

Good points, and I agree. For existing markets it seems the market has reached or is swiftly approaching it's cap. For emerging markets though, you're correct, this not the case.

 

[bug]

Hm, but can Windows 10 run on ARM CPU as regular build used for x86 or is there a special version like Windows 8.1 RT back in the day?

Linux software usually doesn't have these problems

 

[eidairaman1]

They have their own share of problems

 

[R0H1T]

Linux software usually doesn't have these problems

So you're saying with Linux you can create native binary for ARM compatible with x86 or something along the line?

 

[bug]

So you're saying with Linux you can create native binary for ARM compatible with x86 or something along the line?

I'm saying compiling for different architectures hasn't been a difficulty for like twenty years now under Linux.
Binaries aren't compatible, of course.

 

[R0H1T]

I'm saying compiling for different architectures hasn't been a difficulty for like twenty years now under Linux.
Binaries aren't compatible, of course.

So how is it different for Windows, especially with the much touted x86 emulation? I'd assume MS will further push something like this ~ https://www.techspot.com/review/1599-windows-on-arm-performance/
If they can get more performance per ARM core. I personally think Windows on ARM is a great concept, provided the performance penalty isn't too high & we get a lot more regular applications to work on these devices.

 

[Vya Domus]

I personally think Windows on ARM is a great concept, provided the performance penalty isn't too high & we get a lot more regular applications to work on these devices.

Question is , why bother with it in the first place ?

 

[R0H1T]

Question is , why bother with it in the first place ?

Always on, always connected devices? Yeah I know it could be a fad.
Also the battery life, ARM chips are great for <10W TDP, in fact better than x86 chips.
Lastly price, I can't say how much a flagship ARM SoC costs, but with integrated BT, wifi & (4G) cellular connectivity it's cheaper than any other solution out there.

That last bit is very important, as many people still don't have access to wifi, free or otherwise, around the world. They'll probably be near 3G or 4G cell sites though.

 

[bug]

So how is it different for Windows, especially with the much touted x86 emulation? I'd assume MS will further push something like this ~ https://www.techspot.com/review/1599-windows-on-arm-performance/
If they can get more performance per ARM core. I personally think Windows on ARM is a great concept, provided the performance penalty isn't too high & we get a lot more regular applications to work on these devices.

The difference, as I have already said, is that it's been done for decades and it doesn't require a Linux RT or something.

Question is , why bother with it in the first place ?

As software runs more and more in the cloud and the OS you use to consume it matters less and less, why wouldn't the architecture that runs the OS follow suit? I mean, you're already consuming using x86 on your desktop/laptop and using ARM on your smartphone/tablet. Why not take it one step further?

 

[R0H1T]

The difference, as I have already said, is that it's been done for decades and it doesn't require a Linux RT or something.

That's why I said x86 emulation, with it MS isn't reinventing the wheel like they did with winRT. It's practical for only a handful of tasks right now, however with enough time & momentum there's a possibility of this taking off. Remember there's rumors of ARM Macbooks as well, if Apple can pull it off then MS might be forced to, not for Apple though.

 

[bug]

That's why I said x86 emulation, with it MS isn't reinventing the wheel like they did with winRT. It's practical for only a handful of tasks right now, however with enough time & momentum there's a possibility of this taking off. Remember there's rumors of ARM Macbooks as well, if Apple can pull it off then MS might be forced to, not for Apple though.

You lost me.

 

[R0H1T]

You lost me.

All I'm saying is that winRT is dead, x86 emulation is the new deal & it isn't half as bad as the last attempt by MS to get on board the ARM train. Lastly MS gets a bad rep for a lot of failed endeavors, but more often than not it's the market momentum & not necessarily the merits of the product which decides its fate. Like Zune or Windows phone vis-à-vis ipod & Android.

Apple's doing something similar & they have enough $ to pull it off. MS just needs to back this long & hard.

 

[bug]

All I'm saying is that winRT is dead, x86 emulation is the new deal & it isn't half as bad as the last attempt by MS to get on board the ARM train. Lastly MS gets a bad rep for a lot of falied endeavors, but more often than not it's the market momentum & not necessarily the merits of the product which decides its fate. Like Zune or Windows phone, vis-à-vis ipod & Android.

Apple's doing something similar & they have enough $ to pull it off. MS just needs to back this long & hard.

You're saying Micorsoft's attempt will be successful this time (emulation rarely is, but whatever). I was just saying this was fixed on Linux long ago.

 

[R0H1T]

You're saying Micorsoft's attempt will be successful this time (emulation rarely is, but whatever). I was just saying this was fixed on Linux long ago.

If they target the right market segment & audience then yes. And yet it's still nowhere in the desktop space.

 

[bug]

If they target the right market segment & audience then yes. And yet it's still nowhere in the desktop space.

The desktop in front of me disagrees You're right, of course, Linux doesn't matter much in the desktop market. For all its strengths, it never catered to the home user.
But where I was going is, if ARM needs a solution to put their CPUs in desktops and/or laptops, they can use Linux today. Not saying they will, but they can. Interesting days ahead, regardless.