Any way to control when Windows starts dumping to the pagefile?

[Bill_Bright]

Elitism is thinking you are smarter than all of Microsoft.

try different settings and arrive at a conclusion that works for you.

I'm okay with that. What I am not okay with is folks who do that who then assume what works for them is best for everyone, so they recommend everyone with gobs of RAM disable it.

How about showing us one white paper - just one white paper, KB article, study (not some forum poster) but a recognized expert/paper that reports "if you have X amount of RAM installed, it is better" to disable the page file."

"It does not hurt" or "I didn't see any difference" or something similar is not a valid reason to change from the defaults. Until someone shows us that, this debate is pointless.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Elitism is thinking you are smarter than all of Microsoft.

That would be arrogance. And yes, I think there are many ways of doing things that are NOT the Microsoft way and are much better.

I'm okay with that. What I am not okay with is folks who do that who then assume what works for them is best for everyone, so they recommend everyone with gobs of RAM disable it.

Ah but that's not what was implied. I tried it out and had no issues. However I do use a pagefile currently.

Running without a pagefile works well for some, not for all. That is why I suggested the OP test the setting on their system to see if it works for them.

"It does not hurt" or "I didn't see any difference" or something similar is not a valid reason to change from the defaults. Until someone shows us that, this debate is pointless.

Hold that thought I'll be right back. Going to disable and reboot...

 

[somethinggeneric]

And that's fine - as long as there is no attempt to extrapolate those one-off anecdotal results as applicable to the masses.

There goes my clickbait Youtube video, "Improve your gaming performance with 1 quick trick!"

The real frustrating thing here is these programs that are designed to write to page by default, regardless of how much memory you have or how much they need. Minecraft for example, I allocate 16gb of ram to it and it uses maybe 8 but still freaks out if the page file is disabled. What would be really awesome is if you could perhaps put the pagefile on your ram, with a secondary on the storage, IE I have 32gb of ram, I make a 10gb ram pagefile then a 5gb ssd pagefile, that way I can get the maximum benefit from having way too much ram and still have an overflow if needed. Though this whole thing really balances on how much of a difference using ram vs pagefile gives.

 

[lexluthermiester]

"It does not hurt" or "I didn't see any difference" or something similar is not a valid reason to change from the defaults. Until someone shows us that, this debate is pointless.

Ok, so I'm back. Decided to pull out some of my ram and go down to just 12GB and no pagefile. No issues, booted up perfectly. Going to continue this for a few days just to see if anything happens. But as like the last time I tested this, I really don't expect any problems.

@gwynbleidd997
Give it try. You will not hurt your system.

 

[Mr.Scott]

, I allocate 16gb of ram to it and it uses maybe 8 but still freaks out if the page file is disabled. What would be really awesome is if you could perhaps put the pagefile on your ram, with a secondary on the storage, IE I have 32gb of ram, I make a 10gb ram pagefile then a 5gb ssd pagefile, that way I can get the maximum benefit from having way too much ram and still have an overflow if needed. Though this whole thing really balances on how much of a difference using ram vs pagefile gives.

Put your PF on a ramdisk.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Wow. Amazing how you are so stuck on you disabled it and saw "no issues" or it still "booted up perfectly" or no "problems", or "you will not hurt your system".

Yet, on all my systems here, with the page file enable and managed by Windows, I see "no issues", they still "boot up perfectly", I experience no virtual memory "problems", and running with PFs enabled has "not hurt my systems".

So once again, your primary argue for disabling it is, "it won't hurt your system"?

How about showing some evidence where it is "better" to disable it? That one white paper, or tech article?

That would be arrogance.

Not even. Arrogance is assuming you know better than the manufacturer the product. Or that you anecdotal sample size of one fits all. Or that everyone should just accept what you say just because you say it. I don't expect anyone to just take my word on it.

Here's a good read. I recommend every read the full text but here are some of the more pertinent highlights.

What Is the Windows Page File, and Should You Disable It?

Myth: Disabling the Page File Improves Performance

Some people will tell you that you should disable the page file to speed up your computer. The thinking goes like this: the page file is slower than RAM, and if you have enough RAM, Windows will use the page file when it should be using RAM, slowing down your computer.

This isn’t really true. People have tested this theory and found that, while Windows can run without a page file if you have a large amount of RAM, there’s no performance benefit to disabling the page file.

However, disabling the page file can result in some bad things. Some programs may even refuse to run.

In summary, there’s no good reason to disable the page file – you’ll get some hard drive space back, but the potential system instability won’t be worth it.

Put your PF on a ramdisk.

If you have lots of RAM and hard drive, this might be a good option. But if you have a SSD, I'd keep the PF on the SSD as PFs and SSDs are ideal for each other.

 

[lexluthermiester]

How about showing some evidence where it is "better" to disable it?

Or we could let the OP try it and if doing so solves the issue...

How about showing some evidence where it is "better" to disable it? That one white paper, or tech article?

In this situation, such is not required. It's a test everyone can try for themselves and see the results themselves without the risk of doing any harm.

 

[Vya Domus]

Hi,
My question might seem a bit bizarre, let me explain myself real quick:
So I noticed a strange thing with Windows' memory management. My Chrome is always loaded with tabs, uses at least 2.5-3.5GB. When I launch a game that uses quite a bit of RAM, over the course of about 10 minutes, Windows keeps flushing Chrome's data from the RAM to the pagefile on my SSD even though my total RAM usage is around 10-11GB and I have 16 gigs total, not even close to maxing it out.
This is really annoying for me since when I close my game and go back to Chrome, it lags a bit as it tries to retrieve the data from the SSD. It's completely unnecessary since I still have plenty of free RAM. It would be understandable if I started hitting the 14.5-15GB mark. Also, I paid for 16 gigs of RAM, I don't want Windows deciding an SSD is better instead and lock me up at like 8-9GB.

I don't want to disable the pagefile, but would like to know if anyone has an idea on how to change the trigger point of when Windows decides it's high time to unnecessarily use up those write cycles on your SSD.
I want to keep the pagefile, but have it kick in only when my RAM usage hits the 85-90% mark. If anyone has an idea it would be great. I tried looking this up on google but no dice, there's only the usual tutorials on how to expand or reduce the pagefile size...etc.

Thanks.

Screenshots showing what I mean:

http://imgur.com/a/CLqktwR

(Yes that's Trine 4 don't judge me)

I wrote this comment in a different thread but it applies the same here as well :

The pagefile size should not be messed with, I don't know why MS still lets people try and change it. Paging is a critical component for virtual memory. Contrary to popular belief that if you have enough RAM you don't need it, this is wrong, any OS will always use virtual memory and therefore it will always need paging.

When the OS needs to allocate memory to a program it does not provide a physical address to it but rather it does this through these "memory pages" which have a different address space much larger than the physical one.

In other words, any software will always interact with the memory through these pages and never directly to the physical locations no matter how much memory is available, you can see why there is no point in trying to mess with it.

So it doesn't matter what it does, just let it do it's thing.

TLDR : What you describe is normal behavior, you can't and shouldn't change the way Windows manages this. If you experience significant slowdown the solution is to get more RAM.

 

[lexluthermiester]

TLDR : What you describe is normal behavior, you can't and shouldn't change the way Windows manages this.

Experience has shown this is simply opinion. In fact it has been seen that Windows itself should not be left alone to manage the pagefile and needs to be given input. Giving Windows a set pagefile size in the best overall solution to avoid problems long term.

If you experience significant slowdown the solution is to get more RAM.

As the OP stated, they already did that, going from 8GB to 16GB. The problem was not resolved. Going to 24GB or 32GB is very unlikely to resolve the problem.

The thing is, we could debate this back and forth endlessly. The only thing that is going to matter is a solution.

@gwynbleidd997

Even though you stated you don't want to, it is a valid option and should be tried.
Option 1:
Does disabling the pagefile solve your problem?
Yes? Problem solved, carry on.
No? See option 2.

Option 2:
Does setting the pagefile to a fixed size(example 2GB, 3GB or 4GB) solve your problem?
Yes? Problem solved, carry on.
No? See option 3.

Option 3:
Does changing your browsing habits(close/minimize your browser when not in use) solve your problem?
Yes? Problem solved, carry on.
No? You've got a problem other than software related.

 

[Bill_Bright]

How about showing some evidence where it is "better" to disable it? That one white paper, or tech article?

In this situation, such is not required.

Of course it's required. Why? Because once again you are making unfounded claims while refusing to provide any, even one bit of corroborating evidence to support your claims. Your justification continues to be, "Well, I tried it, I didn't notice any problems, it didn't break anything so it must be fine." To make things worse, when not noticing any problems, you assume it must be better to keep it disabled - again without providing one shred of corroborating evidence to show disabling the page file is "better". You just expect everyone to accept your claims because you said them.

Experience has shown this is simply opinion. In fact it has been seen that Windows itself should not be left alone to manage the pagefile and needs to be given input.

And here's a perfect example - and you accuse me of elitism? Where is this evidence that shows Windows should not be left alone to manage the page file.

Anecdotal evidence is NOT evidence! Your experience doesn't count. You are just somebody hiding behind an avatar and fake name. My experience doesn't count.

Now you bring up fixed sizes! Okay - can you show one bit of evidence that shows setting a fixed size is "better"? Just one? To make matters worse YOU FAILED to illustrate how to determine the correct fixed size. YOU FAILED to explain how crash dumps, peak system commit charges, modified pages are used to determine the proper page file size.

You just picked arbitrary numbers to try. And then what? If it doesn't break, just leave it? Advising someone to set and leave a fixed size is totally misguided advice! Why? Because it is NOT a set and forget setting! Virtual memory requirements change depending on the configurations of the hardware and tasks being performed. That is exactly why Microsoft has made the PF in Windows dynamic - so it can adjust as necessary.

For the record, disabling the PF does not allow for dump files. Setting a tiny PF does not either.

Option 2:
Does setting the pagefile to a fixed size(example 2GB, 3GB or 4GB) solve your problem?

Option 3:
Does changing your browsing habits(close/minimize your browser when not in use) solve your problem?

There is no problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The OPs virtual memory management, which includes the page file, is working exactly as it should.

Computer Hope:

Is it a good idea to change my Microsoft Windows page file size?
No. We highly recommend that all users let Microsoft Windows choose the best initial, maximum, and minimum settings for their virtual memory (page file).

I have plenty of RAM, should I disable the page file?
No.

Microsoft Client Management: How to determine the approprite page file size for 64-bit versions of Windows

Microsoft Tech Net: Page File - The definitive guide

 

[lexluthermiester]

Of course it's required.

Ok.

Why? Because once again you are making unfounded claims

There several users in this thread alone who have chimed in stating their experiences. There are sources of info all over the net that champion both sides of this debate.

while refusing to provide any, even one bit of corroborating evidence to support your claims. Your justification continues to be, "Well, I tried it, I didn't notice any problems, it didn't break anything so it must be fine." To make things worse, when not noticing any problems, you assume it must be better to keep it disabled - again without providing one shred of corroborating evidence to show disabling the page file is "better". You just expect everyone to accept your claims because you said them.

What do you want me to do, take pictures?

And here's a perfect example - and you accuse me of elitism? Where is this evidence that shows Windows should not be left alone to manage the page file.

Anecdotal evidence is NOT evidence! Your experience doesn't count. You are just somebody hiding behind an avatar and fake name. My experience doesn't count.

Now you bring up fixed sizes! Okay - can you show one bit of evidence that shows setting a fixed size is "better"? Just one? To make matters worse YOU FAILED to illustrate how to determine the correct fixed size. YOU FAILED to explain how crash dumps, peak system commit charges, modified pages are used to determine the proper page file size.

You just picked arbitrary numbers to try. And then what? If it doesn't break, just leave it? Advising someone to set and leave a fixed size is totally misguided advice! Why? Because it is NOT a set and forget setting! Virtual memory requirements change depending on the configurations of the hardware and tasks being performed. That is exactly why Microsoft has made the PF in Windows dynamic - so it can adjust as necessary.

Again, you want pictures? I'm not going to write a doctoral thesis on a subject everytime someone is unhappy with an answer. Such is not needed.

There is no problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The OPs virtual memory management, which includes the page file, is working exactly as it should.

And yet they came here looking for help with a problem? They doubled their ram and the problem persisted. If everything was as it should be, they wouldn't be here asking for help.

For the record, disabling the PF does not allow for dump files. Setting a tiny PF does not either.

Dump files are rarely used by end users and are effectively irrelevant.

Microsoft Client Management: How to determine the appropriate page file size for 64-bit versions of Windows

Memory dumps are only useful to a limited sector of users. Most don't know what they are or how to use them.

Microsoft Tech Net: Page File - The definitive guide

Server settings advice, not applicable for the average user and it offers no serious evidence for it's reasoning. That is Microsoft saying "Do it our way, because reasons!".

Again, we can debate this back and forth endlessly. The reality is that the only correct solution is the one that solves the problem for the OP. I've offered practical solutions that anyone can try for themselves.

 

[Solaris17]

Again, we can debate this back and forth endlessly. The reality is that the only correct solution is the one that solves the problem for the OP. I've offered practical solutions that anyone can try for themselves.

This. Let us find out if the OP has solved his problem before this takes a turn to bickering.

No one benefits and everyone loses interest when people take pages to argue about things.


This is in a sense a public warning to play nice.