Are manufacturers gimping Z790 boards?

[bobbybluz]

I'd planned on buying a new ASRock Z790 Steel Legend WiFi mobo until I discovered it has two less PCIe slots than the Z690 version (I have two of those) plus they got rid of BIOS flashback. I called ASRock and was told the BIOS flashback was dropped "because all Alder Lake and Raptor Lake CPU's will work in it out of the box". I can't speak for others but BIOS flashback has proven to be a lifesaver when overclocking experiments have gone terribly wrong.

I noticed the removal of features and PCIe slots has been mentioned on YouTube Z790 reviews as well. Hardware Unboxed and other sites have referred to this as "gimping" and "cheaping out" on what were highly rated Z690 boards while at the same time raising prices on the newer Z790 versions. I'm picking up a Raptor Lake CPU from a fellow TPU'er tomorrow and wanted to go with the DDR5 Z790 version of the Z690 DDR4 ASRock boards that I really like and have everything I want but now I'm seriously considering just getting another one of the DDR4 Z690 Steel Legend WiFi mobos for 1/3 less $$$ and I already have RAM for as opposed to going the Z790 route. I realize that the architecture of the Z790 chipset and corresponding CPU's is slightly different from Z690 but why remove very useful features and PCIe slots when it's not a baked-in requirement of the CPU or chipset?

 

[chrcoluk]

Doesnt an old fashion bios reset recover from bad overclock/voltage tuning? Granted its far less convenient that bios flashback, unless a reset button is placed accessible with case assembled.

I do agree that replacing PCIE slots with M.2 is a gimp.

 

[bobbybluz]

Doesnt an old fashion bios reset recover from bad overclock/voltage tuning? Granted its far less convenient that bios flashback, unless a reset button is placed accessible with case assembled.

On the Z690 ASRock's the flashback is on the outside back panel. I haven't had to use it so far but have on other mobos I've installed modded BIOS (the only way to get them to install) or totally fux0red up so badly only reflashing the BIOS spared me from having to replace the EEPROM (I've had to do that a few times too). Tomorrow night I have to see if I can fix a borked BIOS flash a local friend just did on an Asus ProArt X570-Creator WiFi. He called me this afternoon and said it appears to be stone dead at the moment. Hopefully using BIOS flashback will revive it.

​

 

[ir_cow]

Can't run memory as high on Z690 stuff and less PCIe 4 lanes from the chipset. Otherwise. No reason not to get z790 if you don't care about that stuff.. Price is much cheaper on some of these higher end MBs z690 as companies dump old stock.

 

[tabascosauz]

Doesnt an old fashion bios reset recover from bad overclock/voltage tuning? Granted its far less convenient that bios flashback, unless a reset button is placed accessible with case assembled.

I do agree that replacing PCIE slots with M.2 is a gimp.

Occasionally doing a lot of [failed] OC will corrupt BIOSes so flashback works in a pinch, clear CMOS will do nothing for it. It should also clear up an errant bad flash

On platforms where modded BIOSes exist flashback is nice to have since the BIOS flasher itself will not accept unofficial BIOSes

I'd planned on buying a new ASRock Z790 Steel Legend WiFi mobo until I discovered it has two less PCIe slots than the Z690 version (I have two of those) plus they got rid of BIOS flashback. I called ASRock and was told the BIOS flashback was dropped "because all Alder Lake and Raptor Lake CPU's will work in it out of the box". I can't speak for others but BIOS flashback has proven to be a lifesaver when overclocking experiments have gone terribly wrong.

I noticed the removal of features and PCIe slots has been mentioned on YouTube Z790 reviews as well. Hardware Unboxed and other sites have referred to this as "gimping" and "cheaping out" on what were highly rated Z690 boards while at the same time raising prices on the newer Z790 versions. I'm picking up a Raptor Lake CPU from a fellow TPU'er tomorrow and wanted to go with the DDR5 Z790 version of the Z690 DDR4 ASRock boards that I really like and have everything I want but now I'm seriously considering just getting another one of the DDR4 Z690 Steel Legend WiFi mobos for 1/3 less $$$ and I already have RAM for as opposed to going the Z790 route. I realize that the architecture of the Z790 chipset and corresponding CPU's is slightly different from Z690 but why remove very useful features and PCIe slots when it's not a baked-in requirement of the CPU or chipset?

Aorus Elite and Strix-F (roughly Steel Legend level boards) both has BIOS flashback, so this seems to be a typical ASRock problem of not including BIOS flashback.

Dunno about all Intel platforms but ASRock had a particularly pitiful record on AM4 when it comes to BIOS flashback.

 

[thewan]

It is possible that Intel is strong handing board makers to include a Gen 5 M.2 NVME slot in the background. They want to look "competitive" in terms of feature set to comparable AMD boards. But then some boards want to offer multiple Gen 4 M.2 NVME without compromising the lanes of the GPU x16 slot. So how do we get around this? We add an extra slot just for Gen 5. If a gamer doesn't want to force their x16 slot to x8, they can just not use it and still can fit 3 or 4 M.2 NVME drives, same as their competitors!

That and/or maybe they are just addressing the demand and competition. To be fair, what do use those x1 slots for? Soundcards? Additional network cards? More USB ports? Imo that market is so small and so niche. Asrock has some of the cheapest board prices around, I am sure they are recouping some of those losses by planning to sell alot of them, so they have to tailor some or all of their boards to the majority.

 

[electrowind]

It's difficult to say whether Intel is strong-arming board makers to include a Gen 5 M.2 NVME slot, as we don't have access to internal conversations between the two parties. However, it's possible that board makers are including this slot to remain competitive with AMD boards and to address consumer demand for faster storage options.

As for offering multiple Gen 4 M.2 NVME slots without compromising GPU lanes, adding an extra slot just for Gen 5 is one solution. This would allow gamers to use the full x16 slot without sacrificing storage performance.

Regarding the use of x1 slots, while they may not be used as frequently as other slots, they still have their niche uses, such as for soundcards, additional network cards, or more USB ports. However, it's ultimately up to board makers to decide how to allocate their available slots and features based on market demand.

It's also worth noting that Asrock's lower board prices may be due to a variety of factors, such as economies of scale, cost-cutting measures, or differences in design and features compared to other brands.

 

[Vario]

I'd planned on buying a new ASRock Z790 Steel Legend WiFi mobo until I discovered it has two less PCIe slots than the Z690 version (I have two of those) plus they got rid of BIOS flashback. I called ASRock and was told the BIOS flashback was dropped "because all Alder Lake and Raptor Lake CPU's will work in it out of the box". I can't speak for others but BIOS flashback has proven to be a lifesaver when overclocking experiments have gone terribly wrong.

I noticed the removal of features and PCIe slots has been mentioned on YouTube Z790 reviews as well. Hardware Unboxed and other sites have referred to this as "gimping" and "cheaping out" on what were highly rated Z690 boards while at the same time raising prices on the newer Z790 versions. I'm picking up a Raptor Lake CPU from a fellow TPU'er tomorrow and wanted to go with the DDR5 Z790 version of the Z690 DDR4 ASRock boards that I really like and have everything I want but now I'm seriously considering just getting another one of the DDR4 Z690 Steel Legend WiFi mobos for 1/3 less $$$ and I already have RAM for as opposed to going the Z790 route. I realize that the architecture of the Z790 chipset and corresponding CPU's is slightly different from Z690 but why remove very useful features and PCIe slots when it's not a baked-in requirement of the CPU or chipset?

If you already have the z690 Steel Legend motherboards, then try it with your new CPU and see how the performance is with Z690 and DDR4, if you are happy with it then buy another.

 

[ThrashZone]

Doesnt an old fashion bios reset recover from bad overclock/voltage tuning? Granted its far less convenient that bios flashback, unless a reset button is placed accessible with case assembled.

I do agree that replacing PCIE slots with M.2 is a gimp.

Hi,
On asus "I can't say about other manufactures" but bios flash back allows a user to "flash back" to an older bios it doesn't reset the same bios installed

Reset besides optimize defaults is just reflashing with the same bios you're already using you would not need bios flash back for that one just the same bios on disk or flash drive to access it from bios menus.

So yeah without bios flash back you're stuck on a newer bios that might be bad so not good to loose this option.

If they just dropped the bios flash back port and button it wouldn't be a big deal if they still allowed flash back from inside bios
I always flash bios from inside bios anyway.

I also love dual bios this one I now must have

 

[Assimilator]

It is possible that Intel is strong handing board makers to include a Gen 5 M.2 NVME slot in the background. They want to look "competitive" in terms of feature set to comparable AMD boards. But then some boards want to offer multiple Gen 4 M.2 NVME without compromising the lanes of the GPU x16 slot. So how do we get around this? We add an extra slot just for Gen 5. If a gamer doesn't want to force their x16 slot to x8, they can just not use it and still can fit 3 or 4 M.2 NVME drives, same as their competitors!

Or it could just be the fact that Z790 is pointless and nobody will buy it unless it has something that makes it worthwhile over Z690.

 

[Vario]

Hi,
On asus "I can't say about other manufactures" but bios flash back allows a user to "flash back" to an older bios it doesn't reset the same bios installed

Reset besides optimize defaults is just reflashing with the same bios you're already using you would not need bios flash back for that one just the same bios on disk or flash drive to access it from bios menus.

So yeah without bios flash back you're stuck on a newer bios that might be bad so not good to loose this option.

If they just dropped the bios flash back port and button it wouldn't be a big deal if they still allowed flash back from inside bios
I always flash bios from inside bios anyway.

I also love dual bios this one I now must have

The EVGA Z690 classified does it well, it has a USB port specifically for USB bios flash, and it has a dipswitch allowing for 3 bioses (tri-bios?)

 

[bobbybluz]

The EVGA Z690 classified does it well, it has a USB port specifically for USB bios flash, and it has a dipswitch allowing for 3 bioses (tri-bios?)

Only that ASRock board has the correct amount of SATA ports and USB 3 headers I need. It's going into an existing system upgrade with SATA SSD's and an optical drive. I also need a NVMe slot for my Asus audio card. I've researched all other manufacturers. I also want to finally do a DDR5 build. As I posted previously this is going to be my last build after 24 years.