• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.
  • The forums have been upgraded with support for dark mode. By default it will follow the setting on your system/browser. You may override it by scrolling to the end of the page and clicking the gears icon.

Are Multiple 12-volt Rails Better Than A Single 12-volt Rail?

There are no ground braking advatages multiple rails can offer:
jonnyguru.com said:
the advantages of split 12V rails, separation of "noise" between rails and the protection provided by the separation so a potential short on one rail doesn't harm a device on another
Seasonic M12 series PSUs are advertised as quad rail but in reality they pack one 12V rail.
 
And SLI, Crossfire, or ATI certified doesn't mean squat anyway.

Means quite a bit if you actually check and read exactly what each individual one is certified for... It was a really dumb rule and idea they came up with. And in fact almost completely useless to 90% of the public. Heck I know a lot and it took me about 6-7 hours today to figure it all out. And now finally made my decision on a psu that will more than handle my system with a x1950pro, and I could add another one, but I doubt I will.
 
There are no ground braking advatages multiple rails can offer: Seasonic M12 series PSUs are advertised as quad rail but in reality they pack one 12V rail.

Beh... I would almost call that quality control...

But I guess with it being a pretty good psu to start with they do run pretty stable voltages. And seasonic is pretty well known for doing a good job. Although it does have 4 independent rails.

The question now is, was that a quality control miss, or is that something they have effectively done on all of them?

I just ordered a psu that was also said to have merged rails, because of the modular cable support, I'll pull it apart when it comes and check to see.
 
Means quite a bit if you actually check and read exactly what each individual one is certified for... It was a really dumb rule and idea they came up with. And in fact almost completely useless to 90% of the public. Heck I know a lot and it took me about 6-7 hours today to figure it all out. And now finally made my decision on a psu that will more than handle my system with a x1950pro, and I could add another one, but I doubt I will.
All I meant was that the only thing that matters is the performance and quality of the psu. Just because it's certified, doesn't mean that it's better in any way.
 
niko084,
By removing the over current protection Seasonic evaded a flaw in Intel ATX12V spec:
Seasonic (...) stated that the "deception" is really quite innocent. Apparently the initial design was for quad rails, and if rails did need to be split up into three or four rails, it would be easy to implement without completely redesigning the platform. Multiple rails can be split up with a separate OCP circuit board, typically screwed to the top of a heatsink.

What Seasonic tells me is that there was an issue with high end video cards overloading a single 12V rail. So with Intel's blessing, Seasonic removed the OCP. Technically, Intel has removed the 240VA rail limit from the ATX12V specfication

- http://jonnyguru.com/review_details.php?id=13&page_num=3
 
Ok, i think i'm getting it. So more than 1 12v rail is better if your going dual gpu cards....right?
 
It's all about the definition of "better".

Multi rail offers no advantages for multi GPUs compared to a single rail.
Single rail is better if you'r looking for pure amperage. Multi rail allows less distortions in the current and is, in theory, safer in case of a PSU failure.
 
All I meant was that the only thing that matters is the performance and quality of the psu. Just because it's certified, doesn't mean that it's better in any way.

Ya I know I just wanted to clarify on it a bit.
 
It's all about the definition of "better".

Multi rail offers no advantages for multi GPUs compared to a single rail.
Single rail is better if you'r looking for pure amperage. Multi rail allows less distortions in the current and is, in theory, safer in case of a PSU failure.

Largon has the idea here.

The key is to really study your power supply before you buy it, you need to know what the rails are dedicated to *if its multi rail*, and you need to know what the "combined" output of the rails are. Because you can have 3 rails at 20 amps per but only have a combined of 40amps.. Well then 3 rails at 20amps isn't actually what you are going to get. So it would be quite the mess for the non technical savey who wouldn't understand the labels on power supplies very well, or how to convert watts to amps, ext...

It's a royally big mess, and I personally really hope that companies will start to standardize this a bit. But at the same time I hope they wont because then people who don't know will have to pay me or Alienware to build them a sli/crossfire machine.
 
Ok, i think i'm getting it. So more than 1 12v rail is better if your going dual gpu cards....right?

Say-
Power supply A-
50 amps on 12volt single rail

Power supply B-
50 amps on 4x 12volt rails Rated at 19 amps per rail

There above are pretty common numbers to see in higher/midrange level psu's $120-$200

Now both power supplies put out a 50amps. On power supply A- the amps are all shared by every component in the system. This isn't really bad because if something wants more power it will take it. On power supply B- you can pull up to 19amps on any individual rail but cannot exceed a total pull of 50 amps. So if your mainboard/ram/pci-e or agp *slot power/expansion cards pulls 15amps, and say your harddrives, optical drives, fans, all that other stuff draws another 10amps, that takes 25amps of power so far, now you have 25 to still work with, but the rail will only use up to 19amps.

So now you kinda have an idea of how that works, the only problem to multi rails is you need to know how they are setup. Dual rails are a bad idea because they don't really split enough up for the full power. You generally have 1 rail for all your drives/mobo and everything else, and then 1 rail for your video card. Well sure the one for your video might be fine, but your video card also depends on voltage from the pci-e slot itself.

*Info from Nvidia* The 8800 series cards will draw at maximum 5.5 amps from the pci-e slot and 5.5 amps from the pci-e plug.*
Now thats 11 amps a piece, but its drawn from 2 different places.

For basic all around needs and the average person either psu will be fine as long as it meets their requirements. Weather to buy a multi rail or single rail? That would purely be by each person weather or not they want to dig for one that will support what they need *they are more complicated to get the full specs on*. So that being said one really isn't "better" than the other, the only positive to a mutli rail is better stability *by design*. This doesn't mean a cheap multi rail will be more stable then a good single rail. So really unless you have a personal reason you just want a multi rail psu, it really doesn't matter too much. Just make sure it will support what you want from it now and possibly in the future.

Remember you can't ever have a power supply thats "Too big". If you put a 1000 watt power supply on your computer that would run fine on a 300 watt, all the means if your power supply has to work all that much less, in fact in most cases it will extend the life of your power supply because you never really push it.

So find a happy medium in what you want, can afford, and what you need, make sure to leave some extra power left over so you don't have to worry about over running your power supply, and so it runs more efficiently. In turn it will last longer, run quieter and cooler.


How to check your power supplies combined output-

Take the whole power rating *600 watts 700 watts*...
Minus the amount of watts max for 3volt and 5volt lines.
This leaves you with the 12volt watts. Take the watts divide by 12*the voltage*
and you will get your amps.

This is an easy way to get your combined amps for your 12volt for manufacturers that don't advertise them.
 
ill keep it short

all 2 or more rail units iv tryed suck sorry to say

i have an enermax true460wat single line psu running my comp 33amp out on the 12v

an i have a 550wat antec dule 12v line at 19amp each psu that can evin run my comp bitches about power an u can hear the psu actuly struggling to run my comp
your better off doing what if doen i say

i have my enermax 460wat powering my mobo an video card

then i have a old dell 250 wat powering my fans hd.s an cdrom
2 psu.s not 2 12v rails lol [note psu.s ar not cros wired they run independent of echuther] when windows shuts down hd.s stay on lol but the mobo turn off then i turn off the hd.s power suply

an i allso have a old hp 265wat psu that i modded it allso has lower power spikes then the antec 550 an this lil hp 265 can run my comp its hard on it but it can do it


basik test was doen hp 265wat

12.80v after just tapping my 12v 2.5amp fan i got 12.2v

antec 550wat 12.35v ------------------------ i got 11.35v on rail 1
---------------------------------------------------same on rail 2
both rail.s wired together 12.40------------------- 11.65v

gimmi a break its a 2.5 amp fan lmao



keep in tuch with the forum to see my mobo running off battryes soon to come i gota make a 12v bat a 45.v an a 3.6v bat but with high amps
i allready have the 12v bat 780amp nospill coil 4x4 battrey that thing dsent go below 12v evin startin my olf 1987 f150 v8 hehe lost of power for a test mobo power spikes may be a ting of the past kinda useing the battryes as capasiters leaving a small charge going to them so u dont end up chargen your mobo ever 3 hours lmao

plus i wana be able to play with the difernt rails on ther own like the 3.3v ant the 5v see how much oc.ing helps if ther at say 6v an 4v
 
Last edited:
Someone please translate the above post to english.
 
I don't know where Freaksavior got the info, but he is dead wrong. I have a PS that has 4 12v rails 2 are rated to 18A max and the other 2 are rated to 30A max with a 62A Combined rating for all 4 together. 3.3v good for 30A, and 5v good to 30A as well. BTW it is a Thermaltake W0131RU 850W modular supply. but it does have an efficiency up to 87%. so unless I really push things i think it should run everything I can throw at it.
 
I certify this forum to be compatable with my computer. See how much better it seems now? :laugh: 12v is 12v. It all falls on the psu specs. Read and understand them. Some psu companies pull that crap where the 12v rail is 250 watts if the total on the 3.3 doesn't exceed 200 watts or the 5v is 220 watts as long as the combined total doesn't exceed 410 watts and the moon is inline with mars and your girlfriend isn't on the rag.
 
I wonder if half the people who spout their unfounded knowledge of mutli-rail power supplies have actually got a meter out and measured their components under loads.

Niko, Mgrant?

I don't know where YOU got the info, but I think you should try a few hardwire-on-hand tests. There is no such thing as true combined multi-rail amps, it's still coming from the same power source; there are a few companies that have a 'combining' architecture that supposedly meshes the rail amperage together when required, but the efficiency is awfully low, it's unstable, and it doesn't give you twice the amperage(or three times/four times etc), rather it's 20A+20A = 30 or 31A; you lose power efficiency in the process.

If I'm not mistaken your PSU model and it's similar product line are four rails rated at 12v each, not 12/12/18/18. The "62" amps they speak of is maximum overload, not maximum safe excluding overhead. And the funny part is, in your decision to make up the number for the third and fourth rail of your model you must have miscalculated because you left out to 2amps; unless of course you were being conservative for overhead purposes :)


The rule of thumb is, (and especially for gaming) mutli-rail PSU is a hoax.

Intel was forced to put time into safety technology and then later pulled their findings, admitting that multi-rail power supply was essentially pointless.

Unfortunatley by that time, two years had passed and the market had been bloated with this 'new' technology for PSUs. Even more unfortunate, it became so believed by the masses and computer geeks alike, that companies are STILL getting away with pulling the wool over consumers eyes, by marketing super hyper flashy high wattage ATX 2.2 units.

It's no coincidence that it's difficult to find single rail units supplying over 20 amps to a single rail. Fortunatley, some higher end, or oddball companies are retreating from the saturated multi rail market and are offering up the power that we actually need.

Niko I think you reading 900 pages is what's gotten you confused, like countless other unknowing people. If you'd just found one page, the first page, with the right information you're brain wouldn't hurt as much :)


Whoever said multiple GPU with a multi rail PSU made me almost choke. I wouldn't even dare try that. Personally I don't see how other people can even sleep at night, risking running $1,000 worth of GPU cards on such horrible power supplies.

You get a big damn case and mount two single rail high amp units.


The thing that ices the cake, is that because of this market, the companies that sell these products don't give you the most vital information : the amps on the 12v rail.


Freak, if you are only using one late modern GPU, then a 550-600 watt 34+ single rail PSU will do you and your other components fine. Fortunatley you can get one for about $100-120 USD, from a Tier 1 quality manufacturer such as Silverstone.

Or you can pay $250 + for some absurd 800 watt that will never fully power your card.
 
Testing over half of "multi-rail" power supplies use one set of power generation circuits, but runs them threw regulators capping them to a certain amperage per "line". The thermal take mentioned above is one of the few true dual rail psu's. Even that unit splits the current over two "lines" to adhere to the atx12v maximum spec (18a-20a for 12v). The spec was written to prevent overdraw and heatshorts.

As far as highend video cards they only draw roughly 11a for x1950xtx, 16a for 8800gtx, 20a for 2800xtx. There is no penalty for going close to the limit on a multi-rail psu, if you over draw you will simply activate the short protection and shut off the system.
 
I certify this forum to be compatable with my computer. See how much better it seems now? :laugh: 12v is 12v. It all falls on the psu specs. Read and understand them. Some psu companies pull that crap where the 12v rail is 250 watts if the total on the 3.3 doesn't exceed 200 watts or the 5v is 220 watts as long as the combined total doesn't exceed 410 watts and the moon is inline with mars and your girlfriend isn't on the rag.

I hearby dub thee; Lazzer408, PSU KING!!:D :rockout: :toast:
 
PC Power & Cooling. Single 12v rail. One psu to rule them all. No need to say more. You have been learned. :rockout:
 
They just dont bullshit like every other company..but they also charge a hell of a lot.
 
@ KennyT772

IDK if you meant PC Power & Cooling cost a lot, but IMO, $100-$200 is a reasonable amount to spend on a psu. Especially when guys spend more then that on either their cpu's, ram, and video cards. All those high dollar components need a quality psu to run them. The $99 I spent on my psu is the best money I have put into any of the rigs I have built.

Of course a basic web surfer pc can run with a $40 psu, but any enthusiast's pc need quality/costly power. :D
 
Well I have not tested a bunch myself, but I have been building computers for 10 years now. And personally know people that have tested them. I have dealt with a lot of rack mount equipment, and many others.

The idea of separating rails IS useful, even if it is coming from the same source. The idea is the rail produces the power, that way if 1 rail drops voltage a bit the rest don't. And they WILL drop voltage a bit when going from a low load to a high load. Yes this meaning for most gamers it is not a big deal,all standard home users doesn't matter at all. For those of us who build servers, routers, or simply want the peace of mind of multiple rails because we like better design then it is a plus.

My info is far from off, and further from being incorrect. And like what I said before "@Testing" my psu is not 62amps... It does have multiple rails but its combined total is far from 60 amps.. In fact it wont even do that at overload on 12volt. And yes like I said the quality of the psu is still everything.

Multiple 12 volt rails is not a hoax even for a gaming machine they offer superior stability *by design*. A cheap antec vs what ever you have now doesn't necessarily compare.
 
Niko if you had read what i said, and done some extra research you would have disproved your own post. there are very few power supplies with multiple generation circuits, mutli-rail psus are single rail with power sectioned off so no one part can draw enough to melt the wiring. if the voltage on one rail drops so does the other, aka how dual/tri/quad rail psus have been proven a hoax.

if they were all true multi rail and you plugged two different rails into say an 8800gtx, the different voltages would end up shorting things out.

to this day the only way they can fit dual/tri/quad power conversion circuits into one casing is by making it larger and packing it full. no cheap light psu will be dual rail, just seperated circuits.

finally it is a better design yes, in theory. it was simply made by intel due to their high draw pentium ds and presscots. they wanted to be sure they would not overdraw any one wire and melt the harness (which has happened a time or two). it is simply a limiter of a bunch of wires/a trip point per say. if the current goes over that trip point the psu shuts off to make sure nothing will start melting.

atx12v is just a cop-out for psu manufacturers so they can use cheap smaller gauge wire. this is non-issue with higher end parts but the higher end is a small margin compared to big box workstations and home pcs.
@GLD - which one of these is a $100? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&Subcategory=58&description=&Ntk=&srchInDesc=
 
Newegg is the Bomb, but not for buying 1 of these psu.

I agree for two reasons:
1. It is cheaper from source.
2. My 850W Zeus just came today , from Egg, and it had just about the crappiest packing job i have ever seen. Definitely the crappiest ive seen from Egg. It was a large box, with a light amount of foam peanuts, and i could hear it shake when moved the box. I have not used my PSU yet... I hope it still works.

Still though... Everything else from newegg is good. :)
 
Back
Top