Best Bang For Your Buck Using An Intel Processor.

[RandallFlagg]

Going to 2nd what was said about Microcenter, they have the 10600K for $189 and the 10700K for $249. There's nothing in the sub $300 price range that can touch that price/perf.

The problem I see is what is in stock *in Houston* for motherboards, At the lower end they are ASRock motherboards, or B460 type boards which will nerf the 10600K and 10700K by limiting memory speed.

I would not buy any of the sub $240 motherboards in stock in Houston, the first one I see worth anything is the AORUS elite at $239 (or $219 after $20 combo savings).

So what I would recommend is -

Pick up the Z590 MSI Z590-A Pro for $189 at Newegg ($179 if you send in rebate card) and the CPU from MC. This board is not super high end but it does have one very nice feature - a USB 3.2 2x2 aka thunderbolt port.

OR

Wait for a better motherboard to be available in Houston to make the combo. OFC the problem here is that they may stop the sale before a better combo becomes available.

 

[Selaya]

Micro Center - Computers and Electronics

Micro Center - Computers and Electronics - Thousands of products to buy: desktops, laptops, monitors, build your own PC parts, upgrades, digital imaging, printing supplies, portable devices, audio equipment, software, video games, movies, tech books, plus repair service, store hours, directions...

www.microcenter.com

what about this? Probably shit VRMs?

 

[RandallFlagg]

Micro Center - Computers and Electronics

Micro Center - Computers and Electronics - Thousands of products to buy: desktops, laptops, monitors, build your own PC parts, upgrades, digital imaging, printing supplies, portable devices, audio equipment, software, video games, movies, tech books, plus repair service, store hours, directions...

www.microcenter.com

what about this? Probably shit VRMs?

Same as the Z490 Pro4.

10600K VRM overheating on those. Everything else is nice and cool, those boards can't even handle a stock 10900K.

Again probably be ok running stock 10600K - barely - but I think longevity is questionable with crap power systems on Asrock and Gigabyte's low end boards. That Aorus Elite is really running cool, will probably last a long long time, and can easily handle higher end CPUs, and it's in stock in Houston MicroCenter. I'd either get that (in stock at MC) or go to newegg and find a different M/B to pair with the CPU from Microcenter.

 

[Selaya]

Thought as much. My gut tells me to stay away from cheap AsRock/Gigabyte boards, but these seem to be the only 560/570s available rn.

 

[newtekie1]

Same as the Z490 Pro4.

10600K VRM overheating on those. Everything else is nice and cool, those boards can't even handle a stock 10900K.

Again probably be ok running stock 10600K - barely - but I think longevity is questionable with crap power systems on Asrock and Gigabyte's low end boards. That Aorus Elite is really running cool, will probably last a long long time, and can easily handle higher end CPUs, and it's in stock in Houston MicroCenter. I'd either get that (in stock at MC) or go to newegg and find a different M/B to pair with the CPU from Microcenter.

View attachment 193861

I always hate tests like this, they never apply to most people actually buying the products. How many people do you think buy a 10600K, remove the power limits and overclock the chip, then run hour long blender renders on them?

I mean, yeah if your intended use is Blender, then this is helpful. But if you aren't torturing the system with 100% load for hours on end, how useful is this info?

 

[RandallFlagg]

I always hate tests like this, they never apply to most people actually buying the products. How many people do you think buy a 10600K, remove the power limits and overclock the chip, then run hour long blender renders on them?

I mean, yeah if your intended use is Blender, then this is helpful. But if you aren't torturing the system with 100% load for hours on end, how useful is this info?

Actually, how many people buy a 10600K that isn't part of an OEM rig?

Not many, most estimates I've seen are about 10-15% of desktop market is DIY, and desktop market is only 17% of the PC market. That means us DIY types make up about 1.7 - 2.6% of the overall PC market.

But within this little low single digit percentage of the market that is DIY desktop, I would imagine a *big* portion do in fact power unlock and tinker with OC of some type - memory OC, memory sub-timings, built-in BIOS settings, etc. Some of the much larger OEM market does as well.

But if you are not going to do any of that, then OEM is the way to go, and CNET and PCWorld have the best reviews of OEM rigs. Trying to 'simulate' OEM conditions using DIY hardware like many sites do (AT especially) is IMO a fools errand. Just look how many of the posters here have or participate in posts about OC their RAM, power unlock, and core OC. I'd say, most.

 

[Selaya]

what is oem
like

Is NZXT BLD OEM?
Is Dell Optiplex OEM?

In any case, I always figured that most Optiplexes (which make up the vast majority of desktop sales) would be full of 10400s and 10700s and not Ks because they all use shitty H410 boards which kinda defeats the point of a K SKU.
In that case I would actually say that most people who buy a 10600K are actually DIYers - if you buy an Optiplex, chances are you would be taking one with a 10400.

 

[newtekie1]

Actually, how many people buy a 10600K that isn't part of an OEM rig?

Not many, most estimates I've seen are about 10-15% of desktop market is DIY, and desktop market is only 17% of the PC market. That means us DIY types make up about 1.7 - 2.6% of the overall PC market.

But within this little low single digit percentage of the market that is DIY desktop, I would imagine a *big* portion do in fact power unlock and tinker with OC of some type - memory OC, memory sub-timings, built-in BIOS settings, etc. Some of the much larger OEM market does as well.

But if you are not going to do any of that, then OEM is the way to go, and CNET and PCWorld have the best reviews of OEM rigs. Trying to 'simulate' OEM conditions using DIY hardware like many sites do (AT especially) is IMO a fools errand. Just look how many of the posters here have or participate in posts about OC their RAM, power unlock, and core OC. I'd say, most.

And none of that answers the question. Sure, the DIY crowd tend to tinker. My question was how many of them do it then run blender renders for hours on end.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I always hate tests like this, they never apply to most people actually buying the products. How many people do you think buy a 10600K, remove the power limits and overclock the chip, then run hour long blender renders on them?

I mean, yeah if your intended use is Blender, then this is helpful. But if you aren't torturing the system with 100% load for hours on end, how useful is this info?

I know I can't speak for everyone, but I don't ever run my system at all-core, full-load like that unless I'm running a stress test. The most I push these days is the occasional video encode, but even that is typically hampered by DVD read speeds. Even when I was still a gamer, the CPU load was always less than 100% on all cores--doing a video encode conversion was the most intensive thing I could do.

Based on how Intel's Comet and Rocket Lake perform at the high-end, I'd rather not mess with their crazy 220W+ CPU loads. To maintain that kind of performance, you really need to open your wallet on the rest of the system. It doesn't sound like OP is a user that demands that kind of performance.

 

[RandallFlagg]

And none of that answers the question. Sure, the DIY crowd tend to tinker. My question was how many of them do it then run blender renders for hours on end.

Virtually none in terms of normal usage, I agree. I think most of the rendering / encoding tests are contrived, narrow use cases, that get too much credence while things like web performance and office / image editing are far, far more common and given little attention. And yes you can bring a PC to its knees with Office.

However I think the stress test speaks to how well the board is designed and gives insight into its longevity. The fact that a couple of those boards can't handle a mildly OC 10600K - which draws about the same if if not a little less than say a 3900X - speaks to poor VRM design.

This I think is important to the OPs usage of sticking with a CPU for 6 or 7 years, you want the board to be reasonably well designed so that it will last.

 

[newtekie1]

Virtually none in terms of normal usage, I agree. I think most of the rendering / encoding tests are contrived, narrow use cases, that get too much credence while things like web performance and office / image editing are far, far more common and given little attention. And yes you can bring a PC to its knees with Office.

However I think the stress test speaks to how well the board is designed and gives insight into its longevity. The fact that a couple of those boards can't handle a mildly OC 10600K - which draws about the same if if not a little less than say a 3900X - speaks to poor VRM design.

This I think is important to the OPs usage of sticking with a CPU for 6 or 7 years, you want the board to be reasonably well designed so that it will last.

I don't believe it speaks to the longevity of a motherboard at all. I can floor the engine in my Toyota sitting still in the driveway and overheat it in a few minutes, that doesn't mean the car isn't going to last for years under normal use. And the same applies to computer hardware. Just because it overheats and throttles under completely unreasonable situations doesn't mean it won't last for a very long time under normal usage.

 

[RandallFlagg]

I know I can't speak for everyone, but I don't ever run my system at all-core, full-load like that unless I'm running a stress test. The most I push these days is the occasional video encode, but even that is typically hampered by DVD read speeds. Even when I was still a gamer, the CPU load was always less than 100% on all cores--doing a video encode conversion was the most intensive thing I could do.

Based on how Intel's Comet and Rocket Lake perform at the high-end, I'd rather not mess with their crazy 220W+ CPU loads. To maintain that kind of performance, you really need to open your wallet on the rest of the system. It doesn't sound like OP is a user that demands that kind of performance.

And here we go with hyperbolic quotes of peak power usage scenarios while simultaneously talking about how nobody ever loads their PC that way while bashing Intel.

And gaming, the difference between a 3600X and a 10600K max turbo / power unlock (noting that the 10600K will easily whip a 3600X in gaming), is a whopping 11 Watts.

And you'll get 8.3% higher framerates vs the 3600X for that 11 watts.

And if you live near a Microcenter like OP does, you'll pay $20 less.

I don't believe it speaks to the longevity of a motherboard at all. I can floor the engine in my Toyota sitting still in the driveway and overheat it in a few minutes, that doesn't mean the car isn't going to last for years under normal use. And the same applies to computer hardware. Just because it overheats and throttles under completely unreasonable situations doesn't mean it won't last for a very long time under normal usage.

I think you are making up straw men and false analogy.

The test was more like, they took the ASRock on the highway and ran it full speed for an hour and it blew up, while the Gigabyte went into limp mode. They took an Asus and MSI on the same highway and ran it full speed for an hour and they were just fine.

Use that analogy and see where you end up.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

And here we go with hyperbolic quotes of peak power usage scenarios while simultaneously talking about how nobody ever loads their PC that way while bashing Intel.

And gaming, the difference between a 3600X and a 10600K max turbo / power unlock (noting that the 10600K will easily whip a 3600X in gaming), is a whopping 11 Watts.

And you'll get 8.3% higher framerates vs the 3600X for that 11 watts.

And if you live near a Microcenter like OP does, you'll pay $20 less.

And here we go with barking up the wrong tree. I was the person who pointed OP to Microcenter in the first place and recommended the 10600K! I have a 9700K and 10400H. I'll still call a spade a spade--Intel's peak power consumption on the high-end chips is way up there compared to the competition and the rest of Intel's own product stack, which even in short bursts puts more strain on the power delivery system than something that doesn't peak as high. My point is the same--by avoiding those high-end CPUs, OP doesn't need to concern himself with VRM layouts and extra cooling and the like, as was mentioned by others above.

 

[Hargema]

10400F with Z490, around 230€ for both.
It's the only build that makes sense to me so far, and you can play literally anything on it without bottlenecking your GPU.

 

[John Naylor]

10400F with Z490, around 230€ for both.
It's the only build that makes sense to me so far, and you can play literally anything on it without bottlenecking your GPU.

He doesn't game.




Looking at the OP... it's clear the user is looking for 1) an Intel processor and 2) compatible MoBo ... but not a fancy one. And 3) you don't game. While many gave sound advice, not many covered all 3.


1. It's hard to make an argument against the 10400F, 10600KF or 10600k given the price performance ratio against the competition. The MoBo you choose would depend on which one of those you chose. For your stated usage...can't see going higher up the scale. n You won't benefit from additional cores or faster speeds.

2. You'll also need DDR4

3. As for branding ... for many unfortunately, it's like being a sports fan .... many become home team fan when they win 2 super bowls in a row.... but still favor the team 10 years later when it's record is 3-13. Every brand has its ups and downs. Best to maintain a "hardware shore" mindset and select the products that lead the field in each generation.

4. Sometimes one on a budget will go with the lower end chipsets to save money .... but when ya find a low end series chipset board you will usually find it also comes with low end audio and LAN subsystems ... and when ya climb the ladder to get better of those, you will often find yaself spending the same as a Z series board. Given the movies usage, I'd want at least ALC 1220 for the on board sound. While many need to be concerend about having solid VRMs and advanced cooling, to "watch movies" this will not "be a thang" to concern yaself with.

Looking at the MSI B460M ($125 ish) mate seem like a worthwhile savings compared to a Z series board. But the audio here is ancient ALC892/ALC897 Codec. The B460M Mortar WiFi has ALC 1220 but its close to $200.

Personally, I never do upgrades ... I find the old box has more value as a spare box than the value of the componentry I don't have to upgrade.

Given your selection of the 4790k last time around, without knowing anything about current of future apps ... If ya just have the bug for a new build, I start looking at a 10600k / Z series MoBo with ALC 1220 and 2 x 8GB of DDR4 ... if ya want a GFX card, the one I see most often in home theater builds is the GT 1030 ... you could prolly pick up a 750 Ti on ebay for $50 ... where ya go from there is a budget consideration

 

[RandallFlagg]

what is oem
like

Is NZXT BLD OEM?
Is Dell Optiplex OEM?

In any case, I always figured that most Optiplexes (which make up the vast majority of desktop sales) would be full of 10400s and 10700s and not Ks because they all use shitty H410 boards which kinda defeats the point of a K SKU.
In that case I would actually say that most people who buy a 10600K are actually DIYers - if you buy an Optiplex, chances are you would be taking one with a 10400.

OEM usually refers to companies that build their own systems custom, including case / motherboard, even if they outsource actual design of those components. i.e. HP, Dell, Lenovo, Apple, Asus, Acer are the major ones. Together they make up something like 80% of the market.

Most smaller "OEM - like" companies such as CyberPowerPC, iBuyPower, NZXT and so on are referred to as SI's aka System Integrators. They take off the shelf components and build a PC just like DIY, and sell it "pre-built".

The distinction is a bit vague really, because companies like HP have started to make gaming PCs that are very close to what an SI does. But in terms of market share OEM really refers to the big 5-7 who make up the vast majority of PC sales.

 

[Hachi_Roku256563]

if its just for normal work
i would go for a 3200g (better apu) or a i3 8100 (Worse apu)