Can I go higher.

[bfollett]

I have a Ryzen 2600x and a Asrock B450m Pro4 motherboard with the latest Zen+ compatible bios. My Memory is a G.Skill F4-3600C16 2X8 16GB kit Thaiphoon burner reports it as Hynix cjr. The memory crashes in Windows when using the XMP profile (16-19-19-39-58), but with lots of trial and error I found the older version(1.7.0) of Dram Calculator's Fast setting for 3400 C14. works after bumping up SOC voltage a bit(1.08). I think I may have hit the limit of my memory controller because I can't seem to get any higher frequency to pass memory testing even when using Cas16, but I thought I'd check here to see if there are any suggestions on what might help. I see Alt settings for Termination Block and CAD BUS BLock in Dram Calculator but I have no idea what they do and if they might help here. Below is a screenshot of Dram Calulators manual suggested settings for 3466. The second column is the compares settings showing what I have working at 3400. Maybe worth mentioning is my Dram voltage is at 1.40 and SOC voltage is at 1.0875

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

3600 might just be unstable infinity fabric, something you can't really do much about if your ancillary voltages are already well tuned.

 

[ratirt]

With my 2700x I managed to get 3600CL16 but it indeed was unstable. You can give it a shot but if it turns out it's unstable don't be surprised. I managed to launch a game with that settings but it would crash the game to desktop after some time.

 

[bfollett]

Bumping an older thread but I wanted to post that after more than a year I did manage to get 3600 working and stable on my Zen+ CPU. There were 2 issues to overcome, one has me a bit angry. Has anyone heard of a motherboard bios miscalculating TRFC? I was trying to stabilize 3600 by first using XMP with all auto tunings in bios except the voltages, termination and cad bus settings, but at 3600 Windows would blue screen within 1 second of booting up. It was only a passing glance at TRFC in the bios that set me on the right path. The auto setting for TRFC should have generated a value of ~350ns and it does that on other frequencies I've tested, but for some reason at 3600 it was putting in a value that was ~170ns. That's way too low for Hynix CJR ram which shouldn't go below 250-260ns. Once I fixed that, it was just some experimentation with ProcODT and Cad Bus setting to get the ram stable.

 

[Speedyblupi]

Has anyone heard of a motherboard bios miscalculating TRFC?

Not specifically tRFC, but secondary/tertiary timings in general. Unfortunately some motherboards are a bit weird about the subtimings they train with some memory kits, either setting them way too loose and losing a ton of performance; or setting them so tight it crashes or doesn't boot. Sometimes updating the BIOS can help, but often there's no workaround other than setting all of the timings yourself.

 

[bfollett]

Not specifically tRFC, but secondary/tertiary timings in general. Unfortunately some motherboards are a bit weird about the subtimings they train with some memory kits, either setting them way too loose and losing a ton of performance; or setting them so tight it crashes or doesn't boot. Sometimes updating the BIOS can help, but often there's no workaround other than setting all of the timings yourself.

It just seemed odd to me that the bios only messed up tRFC at the 3600 frequency... unless the unstable Termination and Cad Bus default setting at 3600 were somehow influencing that calculation. Most of the auto timings were quite loose. After manually tuning the ram at 3600 I got well over a 40% increase compared to the auto tunings at 3600. Now I'm trying 3666 and 3733, but observations from my initial attempts don't look promising. I think I've hit the limit of my Zen+ memory controller at 3600. Still, not too bad, I 've seen plenty of posts of Zen+ topping out at 3466 or less. I suspect many could go higher, if the owners spent a lot of time with Termination and Cad bus settings.

 

[The King]

It just seemed odd to me that the bios only messed up tRFC at the 3600 frequency... unless the unstable Termination and Cad Bus default setting at 3600 were somehow influencing that calculation. Most of the auto timings were quite loose. After manually tuning the ram at 3600 I got well over a 40% increase compared to the auto tunings at 3600. Now I'm trying 3666 and 3733, but observations from my initial attempts don't look promising. I think I've hit the limit of my Zen+ memory controller at 3600. Still, not too bad, I 've seen plenty of posts of Zen+ topping out at 3466 or less. I suspect many could go higher, if the owners spent a lot of time with Termination and Cad bus settings.

I did not know 3600 was an issue with Zen+. My First gen Zen runs 3600 without much hassle, I just enable XMP in the BIOS.
It could be my board is fantastic when it come to memory OC or maybe the IMC on my CPU?

 

[bfollett]

I did not know 3600 was an issue with Zen+. My First gen Zen runs 3600 without much hassle, I just enable XMP in the BIOS.
It could be my board is fantastic when it come to memory OC or maybe the IMC on my CPU?

You really lucked out 3600 can be tough on a 2nd generation Zen+ CPU but first generation Ryzens like yours often struggled to reach even 3200. I don't even want to think of the number of hours I put into getting 3600 to work and you just simply enabled XMP... I'm not sure if the word jealous is strong enough for what I'm feeling.

 

[The King]

You really lucked out 3600 can be tough on a 2nd generation Zen+ CPU but first generation Ryzens like yours often struggled to reach even 3200. I don't even want to think of the number of hours I put into getting 3600 to work and you just simply enabled XMP... I'm not sure if the word jealous is strong enough for what I'm feeling.

Not sure how much of it is the Board, CPU or RAM it maybe a combination of all 3 as well. Want to see something really crazy check the tRFC on this.
Its 100% stable and I run several test for the past few days on hwbot. Stock Voltage on the RAM.

 

[bfollett]

That tRFC would be surprising for most ram except I think Samsung B-Die. Have you ever run Thaiphoon burner to see what type of ram chips are in your kit? If you have Samsung B-Die chips you might want to take a look at Dram Calculator and see just how far you can push the timings. I think you could drop down to Cas 14 instead of 16.

 

[phanbuey]

I did not know 3600 was an issue with Zen+. My First gen Zen runs 3600 without much hassle, I just enable XMP in the BIOS.
It could be my board is fantastic when it come to memory OC or maybe the IMC on my CPU?
View attachment 229882

MSI boards tend to be pretty good with ram.

 

[The King]

That tRFC would be surprising for most ram except I think Samsung B-Die. Have you ever run Thaiphoon burner to see what type of ram chips are in your kit? If you have Samsung B-Die chips you might want to take a look at Dram Calculator and see just how far you can push the timings. I think you could drop down to Cas 14 instead of 16.

Its Micron E-Die. Its not suppose to do this low AFAIK. Will post a screenshot.

I noticed your AGESA version is old. You may want to look at updating your BIOS and you may get better RAM support. Something to look at.

MSI boards tend to be pretty good with ram.

My previous RAM kit was a Corsair 2133 C13 but was able to do 3200 CL14. That kit is Hynix MFR.

That tRFC would be surprising for most ram except I think Samsung B-Die. Have you ever run Thaiphoon burner to see what type of ram chips are in your kit? If you have Samsung B-Die chips you might want to take a look at Dram Calculator and see just how far you can push the timings. I think you could drop down to Cas 14 instead of 16.

IT may indeed do C14 if i up the voltage to 1.4-1.45 but I prefer stock voltages has much as possible.
I have my eye on a Patriot Viper 4400Mhz CL19 (B-Die kit) that I believe can do 3600 CL14 with very low timings.

 

[The King]

Not sure how much of it is the Board, CPU or RAM it maybe a combination of all 3 as well. Want to see something really crazy check the tRFC on this.
Its 100% stable and I run several test for the past few days on hwbot. Stock Voltage on the RAM.
View attachment 229928

It was too good to be true.
That 312 tRFC is the reported setting in the BIOS but not the actual tRFC which was really 630.
The best this kit can do is 540 which is 300(ns). Now everything makes sense. lol (The 195(ns) on the above Corsair 2133 kit is legit though)

 

[bfollett]

[The King], have you tried disabling GDM (gear down mode)? I know not all memory can run at 3600 without it enabled, but mine does and that would help.

 

[The King]

[The King], have you tried disabling GDM (gear down mode)? I know not all memory can run at 3600 without it enabled, but mine does and that would help.

I have not played with GDM. I did try for 3600 CL14 and got there by going to 1.4V. its been stable. Happy with this result for now.

 

[amit_talkin]

Can You guys help me tuning my F4-4000C18D-16GVK DJR kit? I am currently at 3600Mhz 16-19-19-35 with 1.35v and 1.05v SOC. I cant boot with CAS14 or Cas15. Tried various combinations like 14-19-19, even 16-18-19 wont boot. Here are my timings.

 

[oobymach]

I have not played with GDM. I did try for 3600 CL14 and got there by going to 1.4V. its been stable. Happy with this result for now.
View attachment 230172View attachment 230175

In my case all disabling GDM required was setting the command rate to 2t and booting to windows, rebooting and setting back to 1t. You have an msi mobo too which is why this might work for you.

Can You guys help me tuning my F4-4000C18D-16GVK DJR kit? I am currently at 3600Mhz 16-19-19-35 with 1.35v and 1.05v SOC. I cant boot with CAS14 or Cas15. Tried various combinations like 14-19-19, even 16-18-19 wont boot. Here are my timings.


View attachment 230263

With GDM enabled you're not actually getting 1t command rate. There are a couple write ups on it but you need it turned off if you want to use 1t.

 

[The King]

In my case all disabling GDM required was setting the command rate to 2t and booting to windows, rebooting and setting back to 1t. You have an msi mobo too which is why this might work for you.


With GDM enabled you're not actually getting 1t command rate. There are a couple write ups on it but you need it turned off if you want to use 1t.

I disabled GDM and was able to drop my tRCDRD to 17. With GDM enabled it did not like odd numbers and did not want to boot.

Edit
OK never mind my RAM was not stable @17 went back to 18.

 

[amit_talkin]

You can try these settings. I know its for 3200 but you can give these settings a try for 3600. I seen on your other Post your RAM is Hynix M-die

No no, its DJR

 

[The King]

No no, its DJR

Your kit has a 3600 XMP profile which you are using, so try dropping the values from there start with RCD drop it to 18 etc and test if its stable.
I have not used a DJR Kit so cant recommend any settings of hand.

 

[bfollett]

I have Hynix cjr memory which basically shares the same timings as Hynix djr memory. You could try the timings suggested from Dram Calculator as I did and then tighten from there. Below are the timings suggested by Dram Calculator in the red boxes and the tightened timings I was able to use in the blue boxes. I also was able to use Gear Down Mode = Disabled. Dram voltage and Soc voltage may need to be raised a bit to compensate for the increased speed.

I should have mentioned, you may be able to run at 3733 or possibly 3800 without dealing with decoupling the memory clock. Again, just try the Dram Calculator suggestions as a starting point and if stable, you could try tightening even more as I did.